The Bernie situation

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
The real enemy is the warmonger neolib and neocons and their forever wars.

Explain why Trump is vilified, then.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Inertia? Programming? Haven't I already detailed my come-to-Jesus moment here enough? It's not like you are handing out extra credit, right?

A lot of people hate President Trump because they have been conditioned to hate President Trump through bonds of affiliation and patterns of communion and communication. Take any ten Trump haters and isolate them from their normal social/peer groups and sources of disinformation for a full year and I'll bet at least six would be just like me.

Let me say it one more time: I voted for Hillary because that's what the whirlwind I live in was doing after the nomination in 2016. I was "the good son."

The scales have dropped from my eyes.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

OK, I was unclear with my comment. Let me rest... do you think the average Democrat also sees the "forever war neolibs and neocons" as their real enemy and, if so, ...fill in Trump question above.

It seems that you actually answered the unspoken part of my question and that answer is that the average Democrat doesn't actually see the "forever war neolibs and neocons" as the real enemy. In which case, I think it is entirely possible that the average Dem is also far too sympathetic to the BS of the Social Justice Democrat and the growing number of extreme left socialist democrats.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Normal Democrats and Republicans are moderates....the Dems have no moderates and thus no chance
Of course they said that about Trump too, BUT, i think peeps are willing to overlook Trumps retarded antics as long as the econkmy is good. If he would just can the douchebaggery I could like.him more. For now.though....i like.his policies and thats enough.

In some ways Trump’s ‘douchebaggery’ is part of his appeal. I know I enjoy him calling out the asshats in Congress on both sides of the aisle and his lack of political polish if fun. Him not being a full of crap politicians is refreshing to me.

Agreed.

I notice that many who are tired of the 2 party system, and oft claim the parties are two sides of the same coin, putting on a show in congress and then acting like best buds otherwise, seem to dislike Trump when he doesn't act like that.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Honestly, I have no idea what the average democrat sees or wants anymore and thank god for that. I'll bet a load of them are complicit, just as a load of neocons are complicit. We have all been conditioned since the end of WW2 to fight the reds and liberate/police the "free" world. Hence all the "Russia bad" nonsense we've seen thrown at the president over the last few years.

It took me watching one of the companies I lance for fall all over themselves to suck off the brutal, repressive Chinese government this past summer/fall before I really understood. I hit the ground pretty hard but when I looked up I realized President Trump wasn't my enemy and the Russian angle was a mirage designed to hide the swamps investment in China's burgeoning consumer market and by extension -- the CCP.

President Trump was right to name them as our biggest rival. You guys here at ATS were right to name Hollywood as the biggest producer of pro-China anti-Trump anti-US nonsense.

It's a swamp alright, and then some.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Well, let's see here...

Public banking is what got us into the 2008 Great Recession and what has lead us to $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student loan debt. Private banks actually means test people, public banking takes the position their political panderers demand they take, such as "everyone should be able to own a house" and "everyone should be able to attend higher education, regardless of their intended degree of study and how financially prudent it will ultimately be."

Let me bounce the ball back to you, give me empirical data showing the government deserves to be placed in charge of this system. Show me data that proves the public sector is more efficient, less open to pandering and manipulation than private sector, hell give me one example of the government being a good steward over money they TAKE versus private businesses which receive their money by CHOICE of each consumer. Should be easy for ya to find in one of those red covered manuals of approved narratives.

I can do that, and refute your made up point about public banking with the same example. The public bank of North Dakota was the only public bank in the US during the 08 crash. And they were also, in fact, one of the only banks not detrimentally effected by that crash, because they weren’t engaging in all the MBs and other financial gambling, fraud, and shenanigans that every single private bank was.

So, here we have a state, North Dakota, with a public bank, and they happen to be the only state that weathered the 08 collapse with no issues or negative impacts. No massive foreclosures, no bailout, etc.

Meanwhile in “private bank land” we have the largest fraud in world history, a massive bailout, people’s retirements crushed, millions of homes lost, and a world economic collapse.

Great choice of focus!
Govt 1
Private 0

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: 0zzymand0s

OK, I was unclear with my comment. Let me rest... do you think the average Democrat also sees the "forever war neolibs and neocons" as their real enemy and, if so, ...fill in Trump question above.

It seems that you actually answered the unspoken part of my question and that answer is that the average Democrat doesn't actually see the "forever war neolibs and neocons" as the real enemy. In which case, I think it is entirely possible that the average Dem is also far too sympathetic to the BS of the Social Justice Democrat and the growing number of extreme left socialist democrats.

I’m not the average dem. I dont expect most of them even grok the term neoliberal, or all its meanings and connotations.

I, however, do see the forever wars and neoliberals and cons as the enemy. And I don’t have any problems with Russia or with China. I see them as fairly non aggressive nations trying to do their best for their people, and somewhat successfully too. I think they’re doing more successfully with their limited resources than we are, in fact, as I see China, and to some degree Russia, as powers on the incline, while we are doing a pretty badly managed decline.

But as to trump, I don’t hate him. In fact, I regard him as less craptastic than Hillary. But I also think he’s no leader, lacking in all leadership qualities, and that he doesn’t have a grasp of politics, foreign policy, or any ability to formulate complicated plans or strategies, or to understand the consequences of his actions. Which is a pretty standard lack in people who live lives of isolated entitlement and privilege. But that’s as far as it goes.

a reply to: network dude

Just listened to CNN. They hate Bernie and love creepy Joe. CNN even kept the Des Moines Register newspaper from publishing the final poll, because it showed Bernie winning.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Well, let's see here...

Public banking is what got us into the 2008 Great Recession and what has lead us to $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student loan debt. Private banks actually means test people, public banking takes the position their political panderers demand they take, such as "everyone should be able to own a house" and "everyone should be able to attend higher education, regardless of their intended degree of study and how financially prudent it will ultimately be."

Let me bounce the ball back to you, give me empirical data showing the government deserves to be placed in charge of this system. Show me data that proves the public sector is more efficient, less open to pandering and manipulation than private sector, hell give me one example of the government being a good steward over money they TAKE versus private businesses which receive their money by CHOICE of each consumer. Should be easy for ya to find in one of those red covered manuals of approved narratives.

I can do that, and refute your made up point about public banking with the same example. The public bank of North Dakota was the only public bank in the US during the 08 crash. And they were also, in fact, one of the only banks not detrimentally effected by that crash, because they weren’t engaging in all the MBs and other financial gambling, fraud, and shenanigans that every single private bank was.

So, here we have a state, North Dakota, with a public bank, and they happen to be the only state that weathered the 08 collapse with no issues or negative impacts. No massive foreclosures, no bailout, etc.

Meanwhile in “private bank land” we have the largest fraud in world history, a massive bailout, people’s retirements crushed, millions of homes lost, and a world economic collapse.

Great choice of focus!
Govt 1
Private 0

Were they forced into lending people making $12 an hour $250,000 for a home with no cash down?

That's what Freddie and fanny, and Harry Reid forced all of the "private banks" into doing.

Cant discriminate on ability to repay a loan the crazy dems were saying in the early 2000s!!!!

Lolz🤪

originally posted by: Scepticaldem

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Well, let's see here...

Public banking is what got us into the 2008 Great Recession and what has lead us to $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student loan debt. Private banks actually means test people, public banking takes the position their political panderers demand they take, such as "everyone should be able to own a house" and "everyone should be able to attend higher education, regardless of their intended degree of study and how financially prudent it will ultimately be."

Let me bounce the ball back to you, give me empirical data showing the government deserves to be placed in charge of this system. Show me data that proves the public sector is more efficient, less open to pandering and manipulation than private sector, hell give me one example of the government being a good steward over money they TAKE versus private businesses which receive their money by CHOICE of each consumer. Should be easy for ya to find in one of those red covered manuals of approved narratives.

I can do that, and refute your made up point about public banking with the same example. The public bank of North Dakota was the only public bank in the US during the 08 crash. And they were also, in fact, one of the only banks not detrimentally effected by that crash, because they weren’t engaging in all the MBs and other financial gambling, fraud, and shenanigans that every single private bank was.

So, here we have a state, North Dakota, with a public bank, and they happen to be the only state that weathered the 08 collapse with no issues or negative impacts. No massive foreclosures, no bailout, etc.

Meanwhile in “private bank land” we have the largest fraud in world history, a massive bailout, people’s retirements crushed, millions of homes lost, and a world economic collapse.

Great choice of focus!
Govt 1
Private 0

Were they forced into lending people making $12 an hour $250,000 for a home with no cash down?

That's what Freddie and fanny, and Harry Reid forced all of the "private banks" into doing.

Cant discriminate on ability to repay a loan the crazy dems were saying in the early 2000s!!!!

Lolz🤪

That’s true....but only if by “forced” you mean giving in to bankers lobbyists and bribes to get the govt to pass legislation that the bankers themselves created in board rooms and handed to Congressmen to push through congress.

So, yes, like many other times, the poor bankers were forced to behave that way because of legislation that they bribed the government to pass. I suppose billy tauzin also “forced” big pharma to charge the highest prices they could think of for meds, without the govt able to negotiate as well. I suppose obama also “forced” city bank to take billions in bailout funds and not have any of its execs go to jail.

The point is the bankers WANTED the ability to give NINJA loans to people. They made a ton of money off of them, with no liability. Their loans were all federal money, federally backed, and quickly packaged up and sold. Just like they sold you on the story of their innocence.

originally posted by: Scepticaldem

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Well, let's see here...

Public banking is what got us into the 2008 Great Recession and what has lead us to $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student loan debt. Private banks actually means test people, public banking takes the position their political panderers demand they take, such as "everyone should be able to own a house" and "everyone should be able to attend higher education, regardless of their intended degree of study and how financially prudent it will ultimately be."

Let me bounce the ball back to you, give me empirical data showing the government deserves to be placed in charge of this system. Show me data that proves the public sector is more efficient, less open to pandering and manipulation than private sector, hell give me one example of the government being a good steward over money they TAKE versus private businesses which receive their money by CHOICE of each consumer. Should be easy for ya to find in one of those red covered manuals of approved narratives.

I can do that, and refute your made up point about public banking with the same example. The public bank of North Dakota was the only public bank in the US during the 08 crash. And they were also, in fact, one of the only banks not detrimentally effected by that crash, because they weren’t engaging in all the MBs and other financial gambling, fraud, and shenanigans that every single private bank was.

So, here we have a state, North Dakota, with a public bank, and they happen to be the only state that weathered the 08 collapse with no issues or negative impacts. No massive foreclosures, no bailout, etc.

Meanwhile in “private bank land” we have the largest fraud in world history, a massive bailout, people’s retirements crushed, millions of homes lost, and a world economic collapse.

Great choice of focus!
Govt 1
Private 0

Were they forced into lending people making $12 an hour $250,000 for a home with no cash down?

That's what Freddie and fanny, and Harry Reid forced all of the "private banks" into doing.

Cant discriminate on ability to repay a loan the crazy dems were saying in the early 2000s!!!!

Lolz🤪

Obama could not really go after lenders. They were part of the problem but the bigger one were people lying on loan applications in the millions. They should have been prosecuted but it worked out for me. Stole a home worth 3X more than I paid. Nice home but if it crashes again I plan on doing another upgrade. Rent this one out and going get me a castle.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets

originally posted by: Scepticaldem

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Well, let's see here...

Public banking is what got us into the 2008 Great Recession and what has lead us to $1.5 Trillion in outstanding student loan debt. Private banks actually means test people, public banking takes the position their political panderers demand they take, such as "everyone should be able to own a house" and "everyone should be able to attend higher education, regardless of their intended degree of study and how financially prudent it will ultimately be."

Let me bounce the ball back to you, give me empirical data showing the government deserves to be placed in charge of this system. Show me data that proves the public sector is more efficient, less open to pandering and manipulation than private sector, hell give me one example of the government being a good steward over money they TAKE versus private businesses which receive their money by CHOICE of each consumer. Should be easy for ya to find in one of those red covered manuals of approved narratives.

I can do that, and refute your made up point about public banking with the same example. The public bank of North Dakota was the only public bank in the US during the 08 crash. And they were also, in fact, one of the only banks not detrimentally effected by that crash, because they weren’t engaging in all the MBs and other financial gambling, fraud, and shenanigans that every single private bank was.

So, here we have a state, North Dakota, with a public bank, and they happen to be the only state that weathered the 08 collapse with no issues or negative impacts. No massive foreclosures, no bailout, etc.

Meanwhile in “private bank land” we have the largest fraud in world history, a massive bailout, people’s retirements crushed, millions of homes lost, and a world economic collapse.

Great choice of focus!
Govt 1
Private 0

Were they forced into lending people making $12 an hour $250,000 for a home with no cash down?

That's what Freddie and fanny, and Harry Reid forced all of the "private banks" into doing.

Cant discriminate on ability to repay a loan the crazy dems were saying in the early 2000s!!!!

Lolz🤪

Obama could not really go after lenders. They were part of the problem but the bigger one were people lying on loan applications in the millions. They should have been prosecuted but it worked out for me. Stole a home worth 3X more than I paid. Nice home but if it crashes again I plan on doing another upgrade. Rent this one out and going get me a castle.

No, the lenders were the bigger problem. The borrowers were taking risks with their own money. The lenders were taking risks with all our money. Sure, they come up with complicated ways to shift the blame around, but bankers are supposed to have a real responsibility. They are how the majority of American money is created into circulation. To imagine that these millions of people were lying on their applications and that the lenders were not complicit is indescribably naive. Every time I go to get a mortgage the lenders know my whole net worth, income, and property values from top to bottom. So, let’s be clear. Did the lenders make tons of money on it? Yeah. Qui Bono? The bankers did. Where they too stupid to ensure they got all those MBs off their books or to make sure they weren’t purchasing junk bonds from other companies? Looks like it, but they still had us and the fed to bail them out.

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Riffrafter

Not all of Bernie's positions and/or policies are that left leaning. Many are really good.

Like ?
Don't leave us all hanging in suspense like that...

(from a once Bernie supporter.)

Well it might help you see where I'm going if you know that I now tend to be a social democrat but a fiscal conservative.

With that said, a single payer medical insurance system makes *so* much sense.

The only ones against it are the very lucky ones that have great health plans and they're not paying an arm and a leg for it. And those creatures are becoming scarcer & scarcer.

That's one key reason.

Another is that he wants accountability from both politicians and corporations when they screw up.

Real accountability.

Like hit them where it hurts accountability. Jail if it's criminal, cash if it's civil.

I'm curious why you're no longer a supporter? Is it the whole socialist-leaning stuff? I have to admit, that gives me agita too, but I'll vote for the devil that tries to help others vs the devil that tries to enrich themselves or the already too rich.

My $0.02.

Your mileage may vary. Etc...

You do know all that is a scam , right ?
Bernie just wants more DNC money.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Riffrafter

Not all of Bernie's positions and/or policies are that left leaning. Many are really good.

Like ?
Don't leave us all hanging in suspense like that...

(from a once Bernie supporter.)

Well it might help you see where I'm going if you know that I now tend to be a social democrat but a fiscal conservative.

With that said, a single payer medical insurance system makes *so* much sense.

The only ones against it are the very lucky ones that have great health plans and they're not paying an arm and a leg for it. And those creatures are becoming scarcer & scarcer.

That's one key reason.

Another is that he wants accountability from both politicians and corporations when they screw up.

Real accountability.

Like hit them where it hurts accountability. Jail if it's criminal, cash if it's civil.

I'm curious why you're no longer a supporter? Is it the whole socialist-leaning stuff? I have to admit, that gives me agita too, but I'll vote for the devil that tries to help others vs the devil that tries to enrich themselves or the already too rich.

My $0.02.

Your mileage may vary. Etc...

You do know all that is a scam , right ?
Bernie just wants more DNC money.

That’s just silly. Bernie wants more dnc money? What for? He’s already seen he can make more writing a book than serving in office.

a reply to: pexx421

BND serves primarily state government accounts and the state had to make a law by which ALL state of North Dakota banking goes through BND. The bank serves very few private accounts. Also North Dakota is the 4th least populous US state. We are talking about an overall nation and federal government here. A federal government which has a long history of misusing dollars (as evidenced by it's outlandish national debt and even more outlandish unfunded liabilities)... but you think it could operate more efficiently than private industries? Puh-leeze!

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Riffrafter

Not all of Bernie's positions and/or policies are that left leaning. Many are really good.

Like ?
Don't leave us all hanging in suspense like that...

(from a once Bernie supporter.)

Well it might help you see where I'm going if you know that I now tend to be a social democrat but a fiscal conservative.

With that said, a single payer medical insurance system makes *so* much sense.

The only ones against it are the very lucky ones that have great health plans and they're not paying an arm and a leg for it. And those creatures are becoming scarcer & scarcer.

That's one key reason.

Another is that he wants accountability from both politicians and corporations when they screw up.

Real accountability.

Like hit them where it hurts accountability. Jail if it's criminal, cash if it's civil.

I'm curious why you're no longer a supporter? Is it the whole socialist-leaning stuff? I have to admit, that gives me agita too, but I'll vote for the devil that tries to help others vs the devil that tries to enrich themselves or the already too rich.

My $0.02.

Your mileage may vary. Etc...

You do know all that is a scam , right ?
Bernie just wants more DNC money.

That’s just silly. Bernie wants more dnc money? What for? He’s already seen he can make more writing a book than serving in office.

He made most of his money selling his supporters to Hillary Clinton in 2016.

a reply to: pexx421

The entire reason the banks were taking risks with OUR money and received bailouts was because the regulations DC had foisted on them, the "thou SHALT lend to" and "Thou shalt not require lenders have/do/will" codes actually made the banking crisis the direct fault of meddlesome Democrats and a ridiculously doe-eyed, off the rails GW Bush. To bottor money you should be required to demonstrate the ability, willingness, and determination to repay it, PERIOD. If you can't display those qualities, perhaps home ownership, higher education, or life itself is not for you.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

The entire reason the banks were taking risks with OUR money and received bailouts was because the regulations DC had foisted on them, the "thou SHALT lend to" and "Thou shalt not require lenders have/do/will" codes actually made the banking crisis the direct fault of meddlesome Democrats and a ridiculously doe-eyed, off the rails GW Bush. To bottor money you should be required to demonstrate the ability, willingness, and determination to repay it, PERIOD. If you can't display those qualities, perhaps home ownership, higher education, or life itself is not for you.

Apparently, you’re wrong.

"...the CRA was not a significant factor in subprime lending or the crisis. Many subprime lenders were not subject to the CRA. Research indicates only 6% of high-cost loans -- a proxy for subprime loans -- had any connection to the law. Loans made by CRA-regulated lenders in the neighborhoods in which they were required to lend were half as likely to default as similar loans made in the same neighborhoods by independent mortgage originators not subject to the law."

www.google.com...

But if you’ve got any actual research refuting this, by all means show us how the govt forced all the banks to lend without getting information on the borrowers finances, and how large of a percentage of the MBs problem this was, then by all means.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Riffrafter

Not all of Bernie's positions and/or policies are that left leaning. Many are really good.

Like ?
Don't leave us all hanging in suspense like that...

(from a once Bernie supporter.)

Well it might help you see where I'm going if you know that I now tend to be a social democrat but a fiscal conservative.

With that said, a single payer medical insurance system makes *so* much sense.

The only ones against it are the very lucky ones that have great health plans and they're not paying an arm and a leg for it. And those creatures are becoming scarcer & scarcer.

That's one key reason.

Another is that he wants accountability from both politicians and corporations when they screw up.

Real accountability.

Like hit them where it hurts accountability. Jail if it's criminal, cash if it's civil.

I'm curious why you're no longer a supporter? Is it the whole socialist-leaning stuff? I have to admit, that gives me agita too, but I'll vote for the devil that tries to help others vs the devil that tries to enrich themselves or the already too rich.

My $0.02.

Your mileage may vary. Etc...

You do know all that is a scam , right ?
Bernie just wants more DNC money.

That’s just silly. Bernie wants more dnc money? What for? He’s already seen he can make more writing a book than serving in office.

What part of MORE money does not ring a bell wit ya ?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Riffrafter

Not all of Bernie's positions and/or policies are that left leaning. Many are really good.

Like ?
Don't leave us all hanging in suspense like that...

(from a once Bernie supporter.)

Well it might help you see where I'm going if you know that I now tend to be a social democrat but a fiscal conservative.

With that said, a single payer medical insurance system makes *so* much sense.

The only ones against it are the very lucky ones that have great health plans and they're not paying an arm and a leg for it. And those creatures are becoming scarcer & scarcer.

That's one key reason.

Another is that he wants accountability from both politicians and corporations when they screw up.

Real accountability.

Like hit them where it hurts accountability. Jail if it's criminal, cash if it's civil.

I'm curious why you're no longer a supporter? Is it the whole socialist-leaning stuff? I have to admit, that gives me agita too, but I'll vote for the devil that tries to help others vs the devil that tries to enrich themselves or the already too rich.

My $0.02.

Your mileage may vary. Etc...

You do know all that is a scam , right ?
Bernie just wants more DNC money.

That’s just silly. Bernie wants more dnc money? What for? He’s already seen he can make more writing a book than serving in office.

He made most of his money selling his supporters to Hillary Clinton in 2016.

Not sure what this even means. You don’t get to keep campaign contributions for personal use. Sorry, did you see Clinton give him money or something? Or just more made up sht.