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The Bernie situation

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posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: network dude




I don't agree with Bernie at all. A democratic Socialist, whatever that is, just won't be where I hang my hopes for the future


Sure. Who cares?

Bernie - Don: 49 - 45

A Sandersituation. But.. but.. but... muh, Antifap?
Yeah. Right. Nearly an argument!





posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yes. The other obvious thing was they still needed to lose badly in order to self-immolate. I'm hoping 2020 is the year the DNC dies.


They've become the Zombie Party.

They died in 2016, but the body is kept animated in search of brains.




posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yes. The other obvious thing was they still needed to lose badly in order to self-immolate. I'm hoping 2020 is the year the DNC dies.


They've become the Zombie Party.

They died in 2016, but the body is kept animated in search of brains.



Explains this year's Democrat Iowa Carcass.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

dood, if you ever find a way to decipher your idiocy into readable words, please let me know. I'd like to understand what you think, but just don't have what it takes to comprehend whatever that was.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Well, there has been an exodus. I have no idea how large it is but a lot of us who used to be on the left now find ourselves rooting for Trump against the party we grew up in.

I don't know what took me so long, honestly. I knew the DNC was POS when Al Gore tried to cross-examine Dee Snyder over the state of rock n roll music and got his ass handed to him.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

The major fear of Trump is that there will be no election in 2024. That by that time he will have cemented his control over the Republican Party and all of the American government.


to imagine that you think so little of your opposition troubles me. Donald won't be running in 2024, but one of his kids might. The counter to that, is find a candidate who isn't a douche. So far, no bueno.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

Policy wise, Trump is moderate. That's really what matter in the grand scheme of things, is policy. It's nice to have someone who checks all the personal boxes... prim, proper, graceful, follows societal norms, etc, but none of those are going to offset a candidate with a crappy platform of policies and, in this case, nobody on the Democrat side (with the possible exception of Andrew Wang) checks that many of those boxes anyway. So the Dems lose on both policy and personality.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: lakenheath24

Policy wise, Trump is moderate. That's really what matter in the grand scheme of things, is policy. It's nice to have someone who checks all the personal boxes... prim, proper, graceful, follows societal norms, etc, but none of those are going to offset a candidate with a crappy platform of policies and, in this case, nobody on the Democrat side (with the possible exception of Andrew Wang) checks that many of those boxes anyway. So the Dems lose on both policy and personality.


I'm sorry, it's the meanness in me that makes me do these things.



Poor Andrew never had a chance.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I think the Trump presidency perfectly illustrates that practically anyone can be President and the country won't go down the toilet and world won't come to an end because whoever gets into office is quickly hounded by the other party, corralled by their own party, the people, and basically just the massive bureaucracy of the government that likes to keep everything (especially the money train) status quo as much as possible.

Give the old man a chance. See what he can do. He's not going to give all your money away to the types of people you don't like. They'll always get screwed. He'll give all your money to the military, just like everybody else.


Well all I can say is that is some incredibly bad reasoning.

Trumps policies are exactly what has supercharged the economy. Look at the market every time one of his policy changes gets enacted. Deregulation - market goes up. USMCA gets negotiated - market goes up. China trade deal - market goes up. Tax reduction goes through - market goes up. The market is smart people betting on the future of the economy - and it moves it - so don't try and tell me it is not relevant.

You are not alone apparently - a lot of people seem to equate rude behavior, with being incompetent. One has nothing to do with the other.

If you really think Trump is a blind fool that is getting lucky - than you really are too stupid to be voting.


See, and I don’t understand how people fall for this thinking.

As you stated each point, the market grew. But that has nothing or little to do with representing the economy. The economies health is based upon consumers with money to spend, our companies creating actual products that add value, and us being a net exporter.

Nothing trump trump has done has effected any of those things. Sure, the market goes up as corporations have buybacks dumped into them, but that’s a far cry from economic investment that creates growing businesses that provide better wages and economic stimulation. The opposite, actually, it’s a huge bubble that is extracting liquidity and purchasing power from the market. Only a fool sees a bubble as a good investment and sign of a flourishing economy. It’s a shoe waiting to drop, and putting your support, belief, and eggs in that basket is a denial of the future reality.

In the 20’s the fools crowed about the amazing economy, and in 07 the same thing. I expect the same will be said for 2020. But I expect those same fools will be crowing in 2021 and 2022 “it’s just a market blip, the recession is over!” Like they did in 08, 09, 10.


The reason you don't understand my line of thinking is you obviously don't understand economics.

The market literally affects every single citizen. It determines whether businesses expand or contract. It determines whether pension funds are solid or go broke.

Consumers ability to spend depends on if the companies on the market are giving out raises, hiring, and buying products and services from companies not on the market. The markets appreciation supercharges everyone who is invested in it - and one way or another half the country is invested in it.

But if you don't want to use the market as a guide - fine. Lets use unemployment which is the lowest in 50 years. Lets look at wage growth which is happening at the fastest rate in decades. Lets look at the trade deficit which is shrinking.

Manufacturing jobs are growing extremely fast as companies are moving back into the US. Obama literally stated a magic wand was needed for this to happen - so don't even dare say it is his policies causing that.

You are right, in a lot of respects the economy booming is due to emotion. Trump said we were going to grow our GDP by at least 3% - and it happened. Obama said we would never grow at that pace again.

But you know what fine - believe Trump has nothing to do with the economic success - here is what Bernie is proposing:

A minimum of 60 trillion dollars in new federal spending over the next decade.

Do you know what the federal spending was in the last decade - TOTAL? Answer 42.5 trillion

Bernie wants to increase spending by 250% - and you act like this is no big deal. It's actually impossible - but by trying he is going to have every company and wealthy individual fleeing the country and moving their money overseas.

Only a madman would actually push such plans, and only someone completely ignorant to what that means for American citizens would support it.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: proximo

You're forgetting the last democratic socialist president -- FDR -- whose policies helped lift the country out of depression, introduced the 40-hour workweek, established the social security system, the Federal emergency relief program, shovel-ready public works programs, and helped lead the allies and the coalition to victory during world war 2.

Of course, Roosevelt was widely beloved by a nation that had not yet been indoctrinated by a steady diet of cold war propaganda and was not dependent on a corporate oligarchy designed to enrich the military-industrial complex and the various industries that feed it, so you may have a point.


I am not forgetting him. You have no sense of scale.

Moderate spending increases are one thing. What Bernie is proposing is something completely different.

Medical costs as a percentage of GDP are in another universe today compared to what they were in the 40's. For instance in 1960 Medical cost per GDP was 6%. Today it is 17.8%

That's why partially covered socialist medicine would not bankrupt the country then. Today full scale socialist medical care absolutely will.
edit on 3-2-2020 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: proximo

Who said anything about crashing the economy?

What's with the doom porn attitude anyway?

Did FDR crash the economy or pull us out of depression and get us moving again?

Because FDR's policies were closer to Bernie's than any other president.

All of his Public Works projects, like the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority), etc put a sh#t ton of out of work Americans back to work.

You might want to read a little history bro...



edit on 2/3/2020 by Riffrafter because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: network dude
Not all of Bernie's positions and/or policies are that left leaning.

Many are really good.

Rotflmao!

Oh, wait - you were serious?

Ok, then, name one...



Single-payer universal healthcare for all.

Game. Set. Match.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
Normal Democrats and Republicans are moderates....the Dems have no moderates and thus no chance


Except in the real world every single Dem candidate is a moderate (to center-right). Every single one is a capitalist pig like all those before them... just like their slightly-more-right Repub pals. Not one of them is advocating for the means of production to be solely in the hands of the workers. There is no actual 'left' in the USA. Y'all just fall further and further to the right (and the modern day 'red scare' doom-porn is rather effective) so perception/reality has gotten a tad hazy in the Trump disinfo era.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: proximo

Who said anything about crashing the economy?

What's with the doom porn attitude anyway?

Did FDR crash the economy or pull us out of depression and get us moving again?

Because FDR's policies were closer to Bernie's than any other president.

All of his Public Works projects, like the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority), etc put a sh#t ton of out of work Americans back to work.

You might want to read a little history bro...


Look buddy - I just gave you facts that you are ignoring.

Medical costs are 4 times higher today than they were during Rosevelts time adjusted to inflation.

You cannot increase taxes 250 - 300 percent overnight and not crash the economy.

I know Bernie sounds cool and just wants to help everyone and it sounds fantastic. But that's what it is a FANTASY.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: Riffrafter

Hold up there, the TVA also made whole towns disappear under lakes. My great grandmother wasn’t even given money equal to the stock on her shelves in a one room general store and told if she didn’t like it learn to swim.

The New Deal extended the Great Depression by years while catering to business interests over people. If you want to discuss infrastructure, hop on Ike’s Interstate System.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: Riffrafter
Single-payer universal healthcare for all.

Game. Set. Match.

Yep, you lose...

Sorry, I have no desire to have my health care dictated by government beurorats, costing 5 times as much at half the quality of care.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 03:02 PM
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The reason I don’t understand it is because it’s wrong. The stock market hasn’t “grown”. It’s a bubble.

As to manufacturing, please show us growth in manufacturing in the us.
Gdp growth is similarly largely in finance, real estate, insurance, and tech. The first three growing is not a good thing, counter to what you think. Because when banks are making billions from overdraft fees, from interest rates, from service fees, that’s a net MINUS from the economy, not growth the way it’s recorded. It’s LESS money for consumers to spend. Same with insurance company profits, and rents and payments for real estate properties. Sure, you can go on thinking that bankers and landlords charging more for their services improves the economy, but that doesn’t make it so.

Unemployment figures are similarly deceptive. Sure, we may now have MORE people working at McDonald’s, or Uber or Walmart, but that does not make it a booming, profitable workforce. Indeed, as more Americans are leaving the middle class jobs and entering the working poor, gig style economy, that puts a greater tax burden on us to compensate for the food, lodging, etc that we now subsidize for them as they can’t afford it off their low paying jobs anymore.

As to the 60 trillion over the next decade? The healthcare system alone will cost close to that much as is. At least if it’s being paid for by our taxes It won’t going from my paycheck to the insurance companies, to take a cut, before it goes into the system.

We will see how it turns out. But from what I can see, the status quo which is what we’ve had all my life, has been a steady decline for the working class.

How much did we spend on wars, supported by the republicans and conservatives? On the bailout? On the Medicare expansion act? Start cutting those, and we can probably fund a large chunk of his programs right there.

If you want to make a cogent argument, then next time you lay out how much he wants to spend, compare it to how much it’s estimated we will be spending with the status quo.

The us is going to cost a lot. There’s no two ways around it. The question is what’s it going to be spent on, and how well will the average worker be able to get by?



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: okrian
Not one of them is advocating for the means of production to be solely in the hands of the workers. There is no actual 'left' in the USA. Y'all just fall further and further to the right


LMAO!!! So full blown communism is the bar that separates your left groceries from the moderates? Again... LMAO! God help us if the USA ever starts to "fall leftward"in your view because, by then, we will be utterly and totally boned and the Constitution will be meaningless.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 03:30 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: okrian
Not one of them is advocating for the means of production to be solely in the hands of the workers. There is no actual 'left' in the USA. Y'all just fall further and further to the right


LMAO!!! So full blown communism is the bar that separates your left groceries from the moderates? Again... LMAO! God help us if the USA ever starts to "fall leftward"in your view because, by then, we will be utterly and totally boned and the Constitution will be meaningless.


Actually, no, that’s the full blown definition of socialism. There’s a distinct difference, but I’m sure it’s useless to explain it to you.



posted on Feb, 3 2020 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Riffrafter
Single-payer universal healthcare for all.

Game. Set. Match.

Yep, you lose...

Sorry, I have no desire to have my health care dictated by government beurorats, costing 5 times as much at half the quality of care.


Any evidence to back this up?



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