We create our own prison cell of suffering

Our minds have emotional memories which are triggered and present with our current experiences. Every moment of our lives is present with its own emotional memory being drawn from our previous experiences. Our past emotions dictate our present emotions.

Some emotions are stronger than others. If we frequently had experience fear in our lives in the past we will inevitable experience fear in our lives in the present and future. Our experience of feelings of fear, hate, uncertainty, and doubt will haunt us in the future.

There’s an old Cherokee Indian folklore story about a grandfather talking to one of his grandsons about life:


One day a wise Cherokee father was talking to one of his son about a battle that goes on inside of people. He said, "My friend, the battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all.

One wolf is evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other wolf is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith."

His son thought about it for a minute and then asked his father, "Which wolf wins?"

His father replied, "The one you feed."


I think it is more than just which one you feed. The only way to experience love, joy, and peace in one's life is by consciously creating experiences of love, joy, and peace in the present. Whichever emotions you feel right now determine how you will experience the World tomorrow. If you are full of hate because you do not like the way things are or the way other people behave in the present then you will only experience hate in the future.

Other people sense your emotions and will treat you accordingly. People will respond to your emotions in the same kind and measure as you present to other people. In other words, unless we make conscious efforts to control our emotions in our present experiences, our present emotions will define our prison cell of suffering we experience in the future.

So what this means is our own love and joy comes from helping other people achieve an experience of love and joy because this is what we experience from others in the present which will define how we experience the future.

a reply to: dfnj2015

So what this means is our own love and joy comes from helping other people achieve an experience of love and joy because this is what we experience from others in the present which will define how we experience the future.

This ^^^ is a beautiful paragraph that I 100% agree with.
Sometimes your efforts of trying to help someone experience some agape type love and joy for life, fails miserably though.
We also can’t expect to turn on the emotions of love and joy , like a faucet, if we have emotional healing to be done.

It is important to let go of petty grievances, and that should be done quickly.. lest they fester into full blown criminal revenge tactics.. as they do for some.

Great post OP .. but you forgot to mention how important forgiveness was in reaching that Utopia of love and joy.

a reply to: Sheye

Forgiveness is everything! Thank you for your kind words!

a reply to: dfnj2015

I think it's important to remember that it takes time to feed the better parts of ourselves.

Often the negativity one encounters leads individuals down dark paths and they find themselves feeling helpless to change their situation.

Though the Good is often underestimated, IMO's efforts in learning to practice expressing our higher nature are never wasted.

Idk, I've tried reassuring others reaching out with this parable. Sometimes, some moons have gone by since they started feeding the Good. Appearing to be on the right track, they wish their situations were moving along quicker. I tend to remind them that they should give themselves at least as much time to get out of a jam, is it took to make it.

I do like how the Cherokee elder described it as a battle. I feel it helps bring the focus of one's efforts into the present. Learning to look each day as a battle, helps to encourage the small victories that can turn the tide. Looking too far forward or backward only makes it easier to trip over what is in front of you.

Thanks, dfnj2015, the story is a beautiful metaphor.

The ole Injun forgot selfishness being part of the bad wolf. All of my worst experiences in life were due in a large part to my own selfish interests. But I learned, otherwise I wouldn't be alive right now (perhaps). Frustration can lead to a bad state of mind too, likely the worst if you reach the end of your rope.

I find that the less emotional investment I make in anything, makes for a lot less pain and drama down the road. You just have to keep positive emotions alive and remember to give emotional support to others who may need it. Otherwise you may become too unemotional and stop caring all together, something that hardly seems like living to me.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: dfnj2015

So what this means is our own love and joy comes from helping other people achieve an experience of love and joy because this is what we experience from others in the present which will define how we experience the future.

It is important to let go of petty grievances, and that should be done quickly.. lest they fester into full blown criminal revenge tactics.. as they do for some.

Yeah sure, obviously people can take it to far. But never the less, sometimes just letting go of petty grievances (as you put it) can be perceived by people as a weakness and then will be used against you.

Its all well and good to be all 'enlightened' for the so called greater good... but it won't help you in everyday life.

Sometimes you gotta either fight fire with fire, or just lay down and admit defeat... even if it does result in being scorched by your own flames.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I would argue self-pity IS selfishness. Your situation trumps all others so everyone feel sorry for you.
No.
The most evil thing, in my opinion, is nostalgia. That feeling alone, and desire to reignite, can destroy a person.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: dfnj2015

So what this means is our own love and joy comes from helping other people achieve an experience of love and joy because this is what we experience from others in the present which will define how we experience the future.

It is important to let go of petty grievances, and that should be done quickly.. lest they fester into full blown criminal revenge tactics.. as they do for some.

Yeah sure, obviously people can take it to far. But never the less, sometimes just letting go of petty grievances (as you put it) can be perceived by people as a weakness and then will be used against you.

Its all well and good to be all 'enlightened' for the so called greater good... but it won't help you in everyday life.

Sometimes you gotta either fight fire with fire, or just lay down and admit defeat... even if it does result in being scorched by your own flames.

Hmmm .. not sure I get the full implied meaning to this post. 🤔

It reminds me of someone I’ve known since high school and very much has the ideology that forgiving is for the weak. He believes getting revenge for anything that offends or slights him is the only way to go.

He holds ridiculous decade long resentments against people and actually does stupid stuff like slash tires, pour sugar into gas tanks and other stuff I probably don’t know about. Not a chance in hell we he let any of it go and he’s going to end up shot by RCMP someday cause he talks a tough game against them too, because they came down hard on his harassment. He’s been known to make threats against them as well for this. He is 63 years old and his fight fire with fire philosophy , as well as his corrosive bitterness will not end well for him.. I’m afraid.

We don't create anything except babies.

a reply to: dfnj2015
I was married for 30 years to a person who was sexually abused as a child which resulted in a MPD condition, living with that person and the condition that trauma can create your simplistic advice is just ignorant.

originally posted by: JON666
a reply to: dfnj2015
I was married for 30 years to a person who was sexually abused as a child which resulted in a MPD condition, living with that person and the condition that trauma can create your simplistic advice is just ignorant.

My first wife was sexually abused as a child by her step father who was a psychologist by trade. We did a lot of counseling, with another psychologist, but it ended badly. I wanted to have children. She did not. I continued therapy with the same counseling after we broke up. During the first session after my first wife and I split up I told the counseling, "You did it! I'm fixed!" Jokingly of course.

So she moved to California and I was still in New Jersey. So I was the one who went to court to get the divorce finalized. This giant room was packed with cases. There must have been 200 people in the room. The judge says since there are only 3 divorce cases and the rest are landlord tenant disputes let's do the divorce cases first. So I had to stand up in front of 200 people while the judge grilled me about extremely personal stuff with my marriage. It was very humiliating. Oh well.

My second wife is 12 years younger than me and we had babies right away! My two sons are the best. It all worked out for me at least. Ten years after our divorce I looked up my ex wife on Facebook. The guy she remarried looked like my twin brother! It was really weird. And on top of that, she had a dog that looked exactly like the dog we had together (I kept the dog). It was so strange!!!

She was sexually abused by her step father. Btw, her step father was a monumental a hole beyond imagination. He had sex with his clients and a bunch them gathered outside his home shouting at him to come out! He made a huge drama he was about to commit suicide with one of his many guns. Some of his abused clients were on talk shows! I'm so happy that a hole was out of my life!

I feel bad for her. She just couldn't go where I wanted to go in the relationship. btw, when she left she took all 20,000 out of our joint checking account. I am pretty sure I am not going to see my half of the 20,000 anytime soon! It's been 30 years since my divorce. Life goes on! I would not trade my boys for anything in the World!

I disagree with your ignorant and simplistic advice comment. There are different ways people can be. Each way of being has its trade-offs. I just can't imagine how it could be any other way. If you are into psychology self-help books here's a really good one on flaws in the human character:

www.amazon.com...

I'm sorry to hear your wife has irreparable psychic damage. You are a true saint for staying by her side all these years. I am not as saintly as you are.



Times are far between, and few I bet, when we can look upon our lives without regret
Of all the things I have done, you think I'm proud of everyone without exception?
'Till you make your peace with yesterday, you'll never build a future
I swear by what I say
Whatever penance you do, decide what it's worth to you and then respect it
However long it will take to weather your mistakes, why not accept it?
My hands, for now, are tied
I'm a body frozen
I'm a will that's paralyzed
When will you ever set aside your pain and misery?
No matter how I beg, no matter how I wish or plead, you'll never be more than alive
You'll never do more than survive until you expect it
Do you want to build a world with our lives?
You better soon decide or you can forget it
My hands, for now, are tied
I'm a body frozen
I'm a will that's paralyzed
'Till you drop that heavy baggage you're dragging behind,
there won't be room for us to both go this ride

Thanks for you post! I haven't listened to 10,000 Maniacs in 25 years. I'm totally binging 10,000 Maniacs today!!!!!!

a reply to: dfnj2015

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you posted this in the Religion, Faith, and Theology forum instead of one of the psychology forums?

Do we need help from God or a higher power to overcome this suffering we place upon ourselves or not? If not, I think you have the wrong forum.

a reply to: dfnj2015

'Till you drop that heavy baggage you're dragging behind,
there won't be room for us to both go this ride


I don't know how many times people told her just get over it, easy to say hard to do. BTW her abuser was a step father Sunday school teacher. He was a pillar in the church and no one believed that he could do such things. Her mother to this day thinks and believes its drug psychoses. My wife passed last year at Christmas from cancer.She out of torment now.

a reply to: Sheye

I don't know... maybe I was projecting to much with a current personal struggle in my reply and sightly lost track of the subject in question? Because, I sure as hell wasn't advocating for straight out petty revenge tactics on anyone who's wronged you.

I was just simply making the point that although going all John Lennon and just letting it be in every type of scenario in life may sound like a good idea on the surface, it definitely doesn't always end up benefiting you in the long run... and a lot of the time, may actually put you into a position where your just seen as the sad helpless Victim, who didn't have what it takes to play the game.

Listen, I'm no expert on living a wholesome and fulfilling life, by any means... But I'm starting to come to the conclusion that bitterness does have its place in life, if you don't want to become the victim who always finishes last.

You just have to learn how to use it tactically and not let it own you.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Listen, I'm no expert on living a wholesome and fulfilling life, by any means... But I'm starting to come to the conclusion that bitterness does have its place in life, if you don't want to become the victim who always finishes last.

I totally understand justified anger in response to serious injustices, and I think we do need to rationally use that anger to fight back, or the injustices could get worse.

Please don’t let me down play certain serious injustices against people that do need a strong stand and sometimes even involvement by LE.

I totally get what you are saying !!

So what this means is our own love and joy comes from helping other people achieve an experience of love and joy because this is what we experience from others in the present which will define how we experience the future.

If the evil wolf is self serving. Couldn't the seeking of joy and love (increasing self worth etc) from giving to others, just another reward, to appease its nature. Whereas the good wolf, never seeking rewards, will happily feed the stomach of a starving person, as if it was their own, with no expectation of anything in return (not even a thank you).

True love comes from within. It isn't dependant on external energies.

a reply to: Deetermined

Excuse me, while I chime in...

Imo dfjn2015's thread isn't out of place in this forum. Maybe, I'm out to lunch with this, but the elder's description of Good evokes qualities of the Holy Spirit. This simple tale touches on faith, belief, and practice. It illustrates clearly how the forces we submit to, are the ones that rule over us.

I can't recall ever talking with friends about this story, outside of conversations revolving around religion and spirituality.

In your opinion, would another forum be a better fit?

a reply to: dfnj2015

There’s an old Cherokee Indian folklore story about a grandfather talking to one of his grandsons about life: One day a wise Cherokee father was talking to one of his son about a battle that goes on inside of people. He said, "My friend, the battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all. One wolf is evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other wolf is good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith." His son thought about it for a minute and then asked his father, "Which wolf wins?" His father replied, "The one you feed."

That's such utter BS. That's not a Cherokee story and, as a Cherokee, I wish people would stop saying that it is. It was invented by Billy Graham.

The story was first published in a 1978 book called “The Holy Spirit: Activating God’s Power in Your Life,” by Billy Graham. Graham admitted he invented the story for a sermon some 40 years ago.

Source

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Imo dfjn2015's thread isn't out of place in this forum. Maybe, I'm out to lunch with this, but the elder's description of Good evokes qualities of the Holy Spirit. This simple tale touches on faith, belief, and practice. It illustrates clearly how the forces we submit to, are the ones that rule over us.

Faith, belief and practice in what? Indian folklore? Is that a religion or does it have it's own theology? The OP puts a lot of emphasis on "emotion" and quotes Indian folklore about a "wolf" but doesn't state where this wolf originates. Is he stating that we battle against our own "emotions"? Emotional responses are easily triggered by a lifetime of experiences that don't necessarily have anything to do with faith or religion.

a reply to: Deetermined

From where I'm at; faith in the grandfather's wisdom, belief in the virtues as good, and the feeding as practice. Part of me looks at religion as a system of self-realization. I believe most encourage practicing the virtues as a tool for spiritual growth.

It's unfortunate this tale appears to be misattributed, especially given its impact. I never took the time to look into that, and was surprised to see what some others got out of it. A little naive of me.

I got the impression the OP, had been contemplating this fable and helped shed light on the mechanics of the Golden Rule.