Seeking Your Thoughts on Jesus

a reply to: Akragon

Look the facts are Jesus had a yeast infection from being occupied and not having the money to buy enough fish he had the same trip we all have when you have candida on the brain that acts like a resistor and it causes the brain to Fire and 360° and lose track sometimes he got a little Rowdy with what he said but a lot of sufis have as well it doesn't mean Jesus wasn't a prophet and that doesn't mean that he wasn't the Messiah

a reply to: iPray2Allah

lol what?

a reply to: Akragon

I read quite a few eedris Shaw Sufi books and there's a story about a guy who said he was God and they all tried to kill him in the blades bounced off of them and you know he said when you're fully imbued with the love of God you become one with God it doesn't mean you're God all the time but if you can hit high points and I Think Jesus hit those high points and he was able to do that it doesn't mean that he was always God just meant that he could reach that level of awareness

a reply to: iPray2Allah

The reason why Jesus was crucified was because he made fun of people and he went Above and Beyond in every way that he could to piss people off to prove a point like propping up rocks and acting like he's them worshipping the rocks and stuff and that's literally what happened he was a smart alec man and they hated him because he showed them everything that was wrong about themselves but he was almost too self righteous but he knew that he was supposed to die because he was in communion with God and God told him hey look you're going to fulfil all of this and it had to be done nobody else could have did it everybody else would have ran it was the fact that he did what he did how he did it sometimes it's not what you do it's how you do it getting killed is one thing but getting killed when you could have fought back is another thing and there are a lot of people who murdered themselves but there weren't people who martyred themselves that did what Jesus didn't get all the Miracles that Jesus did when he did it and all the times that people saw the head and shoulders in the woods frying on mushrooms that converted them over and over again

a reply to: iPray2Allah

ok... sounds like mythology to me...

no idea what you're getting at though... theres no story in the gospels about blades bouncing off of Jesus...

perhaps you're implying he did miracles?

originally posted by: iPray2Allah
a reply to: iPray2Allah

The reason why Jesus was crucified was because he made fun of people and he went Above and Beyond in every way that he could to piss people off to prove a point like propping up rocks and acting like he's them worshipping the rocks and stuff and that's literally what happened he was a smart alec man and they hated him because he showed them everything that was wrong about themselves but he was almost too self righteous but he knew that he was supposed to die because he was in communion with God and God told him hey look you're going to fulfil all of this and it had to be done nobody else could have did it everybody else would have ran it was the fact that he did what he did how he did it sometimes it's not what you do it's how you do it getting killed is one thing but getting killed when you could have fought back is another thing and there are a lot of people who murdered themselves but there weren't people who martyred themselves that did what Jesus didn't get all the Miracles that Jesus did when he did it and all the times that people saw the head and shoulders in the woods frying on mushrooms that converted them over and over again

You're pretty hard to follow...

try using periods... and sentences

a reply to: Akragon

Jesus did so many things... We're talking about a man named Josh...

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: schuyler
Jesus was a charismatic guy with a message. That's it.

Then what's all the fuss? If such was the case, He can't forgive or save us so we're just doomed sinners.

Why are we doomed? Why do we need "saving" or "forgiveness"? Those are accoutrements of the subsequent religion that arose after his death. Obviously, he inspired people. No doubt about that. But he was just a guy, a charismatic guy with a message.

And, what was the message that Jesus was pronouncing?

Wasn't His message along the lines of: "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" and He clarified it with; "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" and "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

It's no good saying Jesus was a guy with a message if you don't want to hear him out. The message is important.

a reply to: Akragon

The first Christians were goths visagoths osragoths vandals huns trupping on mushrooms

a reply to: chr0naut

The Quran... Jesus was trying to get people to be like Muhammad.

originally posted by: iPray2Allah
a reply to: Akragon

Jesus did so many things... We're talking about a man named Josh...

Joshua... sure

or Yeshua…

The first Christians were goths visagoths osragoths vandals huns trupping on mushrooms

Pretty sure they were jews greeks and romans... but the only rational claim to people using mushrooms might be john of Patmos... maybe lol

Isnt it supposed to be Isa?

originally posted by: Specimen88
Isnt it supposed to be Isa?

that's in Arabic...

possibly tibetan as well

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: schuyler
Jesus was a charismatic guy with a message. That's it.

Then what's all the fuss? If such was the case, He can't forgive or save us so we're just doomed sinners.

Why are we doomed? Why do we need "saving" or "forgiveness"? Those are accoutrements of the subsequent religion that arose after his death. Obviously, he inspired people. No doubt about that. But he was just a guy, a charismatic guy with a message.

And, what was the message that Jesus was pronouncing?

Wasn't His message along the lines of: "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" and He clarified it with; "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" and "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

It's no good saying Jesus was a guy with a message if you don't want to hear him out. The message is important.

The message is delusional. Also, it is unlikely that Jesus, the man, ever said those words. The gospels were written well after the death of Jesus; John, over 100. Many of the claimed gospels were thrown out and condemned as heresy because they violated some political issue. 2000 years is quite enough to distort whatever he really said, which no one really knows. The Gospel of Thomas, for example, has the other disciples jealous of Mary Magdelene because Jesus keeps kissing her. Chances are they were husband and wife and Mary was a rich woman who bank rolled the ministry. Well, we can't have that so the early leaders turned Mary into a prostitute to vilify her. She was nothing of the sort, but she had to be neutralized for the sake of the mythology that distorted what Jesus was really trying to say. The whole thing is another example of a church and religion usurping the power of the individual and placing it into a hierarchy of power and control, which is EXACTLY what he was fighting against both with the Sanhedrin and the Roman occupiers, who had a cozy corrupt thing going between them. Jesus was interested in returning the 'power to the people,' to use a recent phrase. Instead, his entire message has been co-opted and given back to the Establishment.

In other words, Jesus' intent and ministry has failed. He was a charismatic guy with a message, and that message has been distorted to the point of meaninglessness.

OP asked the question. I answered. It doesn't matter to me what others think about it.

a reply to: schuyler

actually that was the gospel of Phillip that has Jesus kissing mary…

Thomas is a book of sayings...

originally posted by: iPray2Allah
a reply to: chr0naut

The Quran... Jesus was trying to get people to be like Muhammad.

Mohammed was born 537 years after Jesus was crucified.

If Jesus' message had been for everyone to "be like Mohammed", and the world had no idea who that would be, the message would be meaningless.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: schuyler
Jesus was a charismatic guy with a message. That's it.

Then what's all the fuss? If such was the case, He can't forgive or save us so we're just doomed sinners.

Why are we doomed? Why do we need "saving" or "forgiveness"? Those are accoutrements of the subsequent religion that arose after his death. Obviously, he inspired people. No doubt about that. But he was just a guy, a charismatic guy with a message.

And, what was the message that Jesus was pronouncing?

Wasn't His message along the lines of: "God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" and He clarified it with; "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" and "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me".

It's no good saying Jesus was a guy with a message if you don't want to hear him out. The message is important.

The message is delusional.

No, it is entirely in line with previous Hebrew writings.

Also, it is unlikely that Jesus, the man, ever said those words.

If things were as you say, how could you ever know? To be emphatic about something that you doubt even occurred is inconsistent.

The gospels were written well after the death of Jesus; John, over 100.

There is no reason to doubt that the Gospels were not written by the people they were purported to be. The people who were recorded as the writers are historically verifiable. The Gospels and New Testament Letters also have no mentions of the fall of Jerusalem and of the subsequent Jewish diaspora, which occurred only 37 years after the Crucifixion of Jesus.

This means that there is no reason to be emphatic that the Gospels were written hundreds of years after the fact when most modern historical and textual criticism places their writings within that 37 years between the Crucifixion and the fall of Jerusalem.

While it is true that we don't have any original manuscript, that is to be expected as a much handled and much-copied original parchment probably would not be expected to have any significant longevity.

Definitely, we do know that Christianity was making inroads into far-flung locations at historically early times. It is a bit hard to explain away a world-spanning societal change without all the substantive proofs that such would involve.

Many of the claimed gospels were thrown out and condemned as heresy because they violated some political issue.

Or they were fakes and identified as such. This also speaks to the early time of the composition of the gospels, because some of the fakes also weren't hundreds of years after the fact (the Gospel of Thomas has been conservatively dated to between; 30 AD, to 250 AD).

2000 years is quite enough to distort whatever he really said, which no one really knows.

Although we do have quite early textual fragments against which we can verify the details.

The Gospel of Thomas, for example, has the other disciples jealous of Mary Magdelene because Jesus keeps kissing her. Chances are they were husband and wife and Mary was a rich woman who bank rolled the ministry. Well, we can't have that so the early leaders turned Mary into a prostitute to vilify her.

In the Christian writings, she was one of those who were redeemed. She did not stay 'vilified' but was one of the main female followers of Jesus and was present at the resurrection. The argument that she was a pariah, doesn't stand up to analysis.

She was nothing of the sort, but she had to be neutralized for the sake of the mythology that distorted what Jesus was really trying to say.

Jesus was about forgiveness and repentance. Mary Magdelene, like Rahab before her, was actually honored by Christians, despite her past. She exemplifies what Jesus said.

The whole thing is another example of a church and religion usurping the power of the individual and placing it into a hierarchy of power and control, which is EXACTLY what he was fighting against both with the Sanhedrin and the Roman occupiers, who had a cozy corrupt thing going between them. Jesus was interested in returning the 'power to the people,' to use a recent phrase. Instead, his entire message has been co-opted and given back to the Establishment.

In other words, Jesus' intent and ministry has failed. He was a charismatic guy with a message, and that message has been distorted to the point of meaninglessness.

OP asked the question. I answered. It doesn't matter to me what others think about it.

The recorded 'message' of Jesus is uniformly in the Gospels, is apolitical, and even spoken about by early dissenting sources. It was clearly nothing like you just proposed.

Jesus and his message has also been exceptionally successful, in historical terms.

a reply to: schuyler

If Jesus knew he was going to be crucified, he simply would have fled the scene, no?. So the crucifiction may have just been a allegory for the completion of his preaching in Jurasalem. Due to dangers imposed by Jewish and Roman authorities. This could explain why "Barabbas' was used in the allegory. Barabbas means son of the father in Aramaic. So Jesus had to die so Jesus the murderer could live. aka Jesus killed Jesus off!

So I think its very plausable that gospel writers of Mark and Luke knew Jesus.

a reply to: glend

luke probably didn't know Jesus... he says in his intro that he basically collected the information from people that did know him... likely primarily mary

Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus

a reply to: chr0naut

I don't care what you think. Your religious delusions mean nothing to me. I answered OP's question. That you don't agree with me is completely irrelevant. I do not accept either you or Aragon as an authorities on the subject and I certainly will not engage on a sentence-by-sentence argument, which is just stupid and not worth it. You are just "believers" who have no objectivity on the matter. You may as well be Muslims or Mormons. There is no real difference.