Sander's Field Organizers Talk About Militancy And Violence Towards Property

a reply to: Ironclad1964

Except Bernie is polling even higher than Trump with independent voters. And let's not forget Bernie's popularity with youth voters, which is now the largest potential voter demographic in the country.

I'm not saying that Bernie could beat Trump, but I think he would be way more competitive than you believe.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ketsuko
but in the system Bernie likes, the government becomes the kid with all the sandwiches.

It is said that Bernie's system makes everyone equal..equally poor... I do believe that.

Metaphorically speaking, no one in Bernie's preferred system can hypothetically say they own the sandwiches because the government owns them for everyone.

But whoever is in control of the government or has power in government has the power over the sandwiches and who gets them and when.

Of course you are correct, such systems seem to always be chronically short of the necessary sandwiches, but I guess the idea is that if no one has enough sandwiches but everyone has sandwiches, then everyone is in paradise. And if you are angry at your lack of sufficient sandwiches, then we have wonderful camp for you to be taught why you are wrong or die learning.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's said you ignore the facts because feelings, and there's evidence in this thread.

Let's see if I've got that right... so you insist on paying three times as much, and don't have free healthcare, for no good reason at all?


Fascinating stuff. The density is impressive.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ketsuko

It's said you ignore the facts because feelings, and there's evidence in this thread.

Let's see if I've got that right... so you insist on paying three times as much, and don't have free healthcare, for no good reason at all?


Fascinating stuff. The density is impressive.

The health care is not free, no matter how much you insist it will be.

My taxes will get jacked sky high to pay for it. It's possible they will have to add in a VAT tax system to pay for it in addition to the local, federal, and state income taxes I already pay, not to mention all the additional fees that will have to be added.

The last time Bernie ran, his proposals which included "medicare for all" (single payer) were going to add up to $18 trillion in new spending and if he was going to raise that much new revenue, then why didn't he use it to pay off the existing debt instead of adding to the budget we already couldn't pay for on an annual basis? At that point in time, we were almost exactly that in the hole, btw.

Not to mention, I have trouble believing the economic acumen of someone who couldn't prevent his wife from running an entire college into the ground. You would have thought at some point if he was the economic wizard he's supposed to be, he would have said, "Gee, hon, that doesn't maybe sound like a good idea ..."

a reply to: ketsuko

You didn't find the post with the numbers. That's sad. SAD!

Who cares what your actual system costs anyway. Blaim Sanders for making things more effective cuz muh, progress is work!

Cool! The glory of ignorance. I'm glad we sorted it out.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ketsuko

You didn't find the post with the numbers. That's sad. SAD!

Who cares what your actual system costs anyway. Blaim Sanders for making things more effective cuz muh, progress is work!

Cool! The glory of ignorance. I'm glad we sorted it out.

Oh, I saw the numbers, but I don't believe them.

Obamacare was supposed to save every family $2,500/year too. Remember that?

Fact is that if we change nothing, about every person in the country could expect *maybe* about the standard of care you could expect on roughly $50K/year out of pocket.

Sounds great ...

May I speak your supervisor now?

Conservative business executives launched an ad campaign against Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders this week, attacking the democratic socialist on his plans to provide health care to all Americans and clean up the planet with a major public works program.

The wealthy manufacturing, poultry, fast food, and finance magnates, several of whom are Charles Koch allies, have recently donated millions of dollars to (CFGA), the super PAC affiliated with the right-wing political advocacy group Club for Growth. With that money, the super PAC has bought ads backing Republican candidates and fearmongering over expanded social programs.

[...]

who called for artillery support?!?

WTF?
Is this happening?
Like... today?

Coincidences. Mere coincidences, fellas!

*giggles*

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: pexx421

No matter what, you pay. Either you pay in taxes and the government gives it back or you pay yourself. The only money government has is what they take from us.

Bernie will have to hit the middle class so hard, they will wish they had their insurance back. 40% of the country pays zero in and only takes. The rich don't have enough money to take even if they take it all. Unemployment would skyrocket.

Bernie can't deliver on his promises. It's not possible.

I respect your opinion, and I disagree. We have no negotiating power with big pharma, and the oligarchs individually. We do as a single payer system. Further, if we’re paying through govt, we also don’t have to pay for their bloated profits, bonuses, and advertising costs. Those alone would drop the cost massively. But in addition to that if gov was funding research we would have better control over what we chose to research, rather than “this cholesterol med is about to lose its patent, so let’s spend a billion to make one that’s .1% more effective”. Yknow, like antibiotics to replace all the ones we currently have that will be useless in 10 years.

It’s not about whether we will pay taxes or not. We will. It’s what those taxes will be spent on, and will that spending make us financially healthier in the future. If I don’t have to pay 100k for school, or 20k for health insurance PLUS 5k for various visits and uncovered health costs PLUS 10k for that baby, PLUS 30k for that accident, I’d probably be in a much better position to buy a bunch of crap, which is what makes the economy go round.

As to the rich and middle class, that problem exists because they suppress wages and inflate prices. So of course most of the wealth comes from the wealthy. If they were paying better wages, if 50% of Americans weren’t getting by on less than $20 an hour, then the middle class would be paying more taxes. Instead, we uberize the economy, force wages down, and then the rich cry that they pay the majority of taxes. They’ve taken the majority of the money! That’s how that works. Share the money, share the taxes. Easy enough.

Now where have we heard all that before. I know, Obamacare which made insurance and deductibles so incredibly high, I could not afford it. To make it even worse, we were punished if we could not afford to pay over half our income on insurance and deductibles before it helped at all. Over 7 million people were priced out of insurance. It was a massive shell game. People who don't work won the lottery while the middle class got the hose. It was designed so the middle class foots the bill for 40% of the country who don't pay anything in. That was no accident. The whole purpose of it was to buy votes.

Could you share with me all the Bills Sanders authored or coauthored, that were passed and benefit me now?

The vast majority of Bernie supporters are spoiled immature brats with anger issues. They want everything handed to them, and they hate the world because they don't get everything they want. That's why they embrace socialism.

Hopefully, for many of them it will turn out to just be a phase kids go through before they grow up.. Like goths.

I was very liberal when I was 18-25... Voted for Clinton in 92 and 96... As I got older and actually experienced life, I leaned more to the middle.. Voted for Bush in 2000, but cast votes for some democrats running for office that year. Voted for Bush in 2004, but again voted for a mix of republicans and democrats for other offices. I stayed home in 08 and 12... I couldn't stand either presidential candidate, and my vote would have had no effect on any local elections.

Now I simply cannot cast a vote for a democrat. They have taken a HARD left turn in the last 20 years and are now openly embracing anti-american ideals such as socialism and communism. When I vote, I either vote for the republican, or nobody at all. And aside from abortion and marijuana, I tend to agree with the Republican side of any debate.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: pexx421

No matter what, you pay. Either you pay in taxes and the government gives it back or you pay yourself. The only money government has is what they take from us.

Bernie will have to hit the middle class so hard, they will wish they had their insurance back. 40% of the country pays zero in and only takes. The rich don't have enough money to take even if they take it all. Unemployment would skyrocket.

Bernie can't deliver on his promises. It's not possible.

I respect your opinion, and I disagree. We have no negotiating power with big pharma, and the oligarchs individually. We do as a single payer system. Further, if we’re paying through govt, we also don’t have to pay for their bloated profits, bonuses, and advertising costs. Those alone would drop the cost massively. But in addition to that if gov was funding research we would have better control over what we chose to research, rather than “this cholesterol med is about to lose its patent, so let’s spend a billion to make one that’s .1% more effective”. Yknow, like antibiotics to replace all the ones we currently have that will be useless in 10 years.

It’s not about whether we will pay taxes or not. We will. It’s what those taxes will be spent on, and will that spending make us financially healthier in the future. If I don’t have to pay 100k for school, or 20k for health insurance PLUS 5k for various visits and uncovered health costs PLUS 10k for that baby, PLUS 30k for that accident, I’d probably be in a much better position to buy a bunch of crap, which is what makes the economy go round.

As to the rich and middle class, that problem exists because they suppress wages and inflate prices. So of course most of the wealth comes from the wealthy. If they were paying better wages, if 50% of Americans weren’t getting by on less than $20 an hour, then the middle class would be paying more taxes. Instead, we uberize the economy, force wages down, and then the rich cry that they pay the majority of taxes. They’ve taken the majority of the money! That’s how that works. Share the money, share the taxes. Easy enough.

Now where have we heard all that before. I know, Obamacare which made insurance and deductibles so incredibly high, I could not afford it. To make it even worse, we were punished if we could not afford to pay over half our income on insurance and deductibles before it helped at all. Over 7 million people were priced out of insurance. It was a massive shell game. People who don't work won the lottery while the middle class got the hose. It was designed so the middle class foots the bill for 40% of the country who don't pay anything in. That was no accident. The whole purpose of it was to buy votes.

Could you share with me all the Bills Sanders authored or coauthored, that were passed and benefit me now?

I was around during Obama’s time too. And I was ardently against him and his policies. Because a simple perusal showed that all Obama’s policies were created by the corporations and for the corporations. His whole cabinet was selected by Citibank, and his healthcare policy was written by big pharma.

The point is, I do in depth examinations on candidates and policies, as most should, and it’s clear and obvious there is a vast difference between Bernie and Obama. Obama was a sold out corporate hack. Bernie is its opposite.

a reply to: pexx421

Do some math.

NATO requires 2%.

I said 3.5% for US military spending.

What's left over?

originally posted by: Gojira54
The vast majority of Bernie supporters are spoiled immature brats with anger issues. They want everything handed to them, and they hate the world because they don't get everything they want. That's why they embrace socialism.

Hopefully, for many of them it will turn out to just be a phase kids go through before they grow up.. Like goths.

I was very liberal when I was 18-25... Voted for Clinton in 92 and 96... As I got older and actually experienced life, I leaned more to the middle.. Voted for Bush in 2000, but cast votes for some democrats running for office that year. Voted for Bush in 2004, but again voted for a mix of republicans and democrats for other offices. I stayed home in 08 and 12... I couldn't stand either presidential candidate, and my vote would have had no effect on any local elections.

Now I simply cannot cast a vote for a democrat. They have taken a HARD left turn in the last 20 years and are now openly embracing anti-american ideals such as socialism and communism. When I vote, I either vote for the republican, or nobody at all. And aside from abortion and marijuana, I tend to agree with the Republican side of any debate.

So you start off with massive generalizations and assumptions, followed by insults, attacks, and characterizations of fools who see things differently than you. And there’s plenty arrogance, narcissism and condescending thrown in.

What makes you think we don’t have everything we want for ourselves? Are the only people who fight for causes people who are directly effected by those causes? That’s not human nature. If it were, there would be no charity, no white people supporting minority rights, no straight people supporting gay rights, etc.

But you’re statements and assumptions lead me to believe that you don’t understand any motivation other than monetary gain, and that you don’t feel for or support any people who struggle with things you don’t struggle with. Is that what you’re saying? Because it sounds like you’re saying that only poor, lazy, jealous, stupid people are concerned about the welfare of the poor and lower class. And if that’s the case, then wealth redistribution through taxation and social programs should ABSOLUTELY be mandated because charity wouldn’t exist, and those with money will only ever look out for those with money.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: pexx421

Do some math.

NATO requires 2%.

I said 3.5% for US military spending.

What's left over?

I wasn’t sure you were still referencing that 3.5% from some 5 or 6 pages ago. So, good! We could go down 43% on our military budget and still meet nato requirements that no one else meets. That’s good! That 430 billion would really help out!

originally posted by: Gojira54
The vast majority of Bernie supporters are spoiled immature brats with anger issues. They want everything handed to them, and they hate the world because they don't get everything they want. That's why they embrace socialism.

Hopefully, for many of them it will turn out to just be a phase kids go through before they grow up.. Like goths.

I was very liberal when I was 18-25... Voted for Clinton in 92 and 96... As I got older and actually experienced life, I leaned more to the middle.. Voted for Bush in 2000, but cast votes for some democrats running for office that year. Voted for Bush in 2004, but again voted for a mix of republicans and democrats for other offices. I stayed home in 08 and 12... I couldn't stand either presidential candidate, and my vote would have had no effect on any local elections.

Now I simply cannot cast a vote for a democrat. They have taken a HARD left turn in the last 20 years and are now openly embracing anti-american ideals such as socialism and communism. When I vote, I either vote for the republican, or nobody at all. And aside from abortion and marijuana, I tend to agree with the Republican side of any debate.

As for me, I knew that Clinton and Bush were garbage back then. Didn’t have to wait to get old to figure that out. And it isn’t the Democrats that have gone far left. They’ve stayed center right. It’s a small fringe of the democrats, and the public that are moving left. Because the democrats are fake left, which is why business loves them just as much, and why they are united in attacking Bernie and other actual progressives.

As to you agreeing with Republican sides of debates.... the things I have a problem with are generally the things that both the republicans and democrats align on. War, taxes, subsidies, corporate profits and bailouts, surveillance, patriot act, authoritarianism, torture, etc.

a reply to: pexx421

I have to jump through 50 hoops to buy a home or start a business. I can’t eat certain foods I want. Or collect rainwater. Hm. Wonder where all these restrictions originated. Oh! Corporate market controls!!

You can't collect rainwater?!?

WTF?

Seriously?

a reply to: ketsuko

I really like your analogy.

I might have to umm...apprpriate it at some future date.

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't disagree with anything you say.

But if Bernie is the democratic nominee, 2020 will be a real race.

There is an *awful* lot of emotion on both sides right now.

And the Dems will come out to vote in *droves*.

Mark my words.

Buckle up ladies - it's going to be a wild ride!

a reply to: pexx421

The best way to judge Bernie would be by what he done while in office. Anything? Anything at all?

a reply to: Blaine91555

There’s a list here.


occasionalplanet.org...

A quick google search is helpful. Not sure what you’re comparing it against. Feel free to post others you think have done more.