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originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: ketsuko
but in the system Bernie likes, the government becomes the kid with all the sandwiches.
It is said that Bernie's system makes everyone equal..equally poor... I do believe that.
originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ketsuko
It's said you ignore the facts because feelings, and there's evidence in this thread.
Let's see if I've got that right... so you insist on paying three times as much, and don't have free healthcare, for no good reason at all?
Fascinating stuff. The density is impressive.
originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: ketsuko
You didn't find the post with the numbers. That's sad. SAD!
Who cares what your actual system costs anyway. Blaim Sanders for making things more effective cuz muh, progress is work!
Cool! The glory of ignorance. I'm glad we sorted it out.
Conservative business executives launched an ad campaign against Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders this week, attacking the democratic socialist on his plans to provide health care to all Americans and clean up the planet with a major public works program.
The wealthy manufacturing, poultry, fast food, and finance magnates, several of whom are Charles Koch allies, have recently donated millions of dollars to (CFGA), the super PAC affiliated with the right-wing political advocacy group Club for Growth. With that money, the super PAC has bought ads backing Republican candidates and fearmongering over expanded social programs.
[...]
originally posted by: pexx421
originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: pexx421
No matter what, you pay. Either you pay in taxes and the government gives it back or you pay yourself. The only money government has is what they take from us.
Bernie will have to hit the middle class so hard, they will wish they had their insurance back. 40% of the country pays zero in and only takes. The rich don't have enough money to take even if they take it all. Unemployment would skyrocket.
Bernie can't deliver on his promises. It's not possible.
I respect your opinion, and I disagree. We have no negotiating power with big pharma, and the oligarchs individually. We do as a single payer system. Further, if we’re paying through govt, we also don’t have to pay for their bloated profits, bonuses, and advertising costs. Those alone would drop the cost massively. But in addition to that if gov was funding research we would have better control over what we chose to research, rather than “this cholesterol med is about to lose its patent, so let’s spend a billion to make one that’s .1% more effective”. Yknow, like antibiotics to replace all the ones we currently have that will be useless in 10 years.
It’s not about whether we will pay taxes or not. We will. It’s what those taxes will be spent on, and will that spending make us financially healthier in the future. If I don’t have to pay 100k for school, or 20k for health insurance PLUS 5k for various visits and uncovered health costs PLUS 10k for that baby, PLUS 30k for that accident, I’d probably be in a much better position to buy a bunch of crap, which is what makes the economy go round.
As to the rich and middle class, that problem exists because they suppress wages and inflate prices. So of course most of the wealth comes from the wealthy. If they were paying better wages, if 50% of Americans weren’t getting by on less than $20 an hour, then the middle class would be paying more taxes. Instead, we uberize the economy, force wages down, and then the rich cry that they pay the majority of taxes. They’ve taken the majority of the money! That’s how that works. Share the money, share the taxes. Easy enough.
originally posted by: Blaine91555
originally posted by: pexx421
originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: pexx421
No matter what, you pay. Either you pay in taxes and the government gives it back or you pay yourself. The only money government has is what they take from us.
Bernie will have to hit the middle class so hard, they will wish they had their insurance back. 40% of the country pays zero in and only takes. The rich don't have enough money to take even if they take it all. Unemployment would skyrocket.
Bernie can't deliver on his promises. It's not possible.
I respect your opinion, and I disagree. We have no negotiating power with big pharma, and the oligarchs individually. We do as a single payer system. Further, if we’re paying through govt, we also don’t have to pay for their bloated profits, bonuses, and advertising costs. Those alone would drop the cost massively. But in addition to that if gov was funding research we would have better control over what we chose to research, rather than “this cholesterol med is about to lose its patent, so let’s spend a billion to make one that’s .1% more effective”. Yknow, like antibiotics to replace all the ones we currently have that will be useless in 10 years.
It’s not about whether we will pay taxes or not. We will. It’s what those taxes will be spent on, and will that spending make us financially healthier in the future. If I don’t have to pay 100k for school, or 20k for health insurance PLUS 5k for various visits and uncovered health costs PLUS 10k for that baby, PLUS 30k for that accident, I’d probably be in a much better position to buy a bunch of crap, which is what makes the economy go round.
As to the rich and middle class, that problem exists because they suppress wages and inflate prices. So of course most of the wealth comes from the wealthy. If they were paying better wages, if 50% of Americans weren’t getting by on less than $20 an hour, then the middle class would be paying more taxes. Instead, we uberize the economy, force wages down, and then the rich cry that they pay the majority of taxes. They’ve taken the majority of the money! That’s how that works. Share the money, share the taxes. Easy enough.
Now where have we heard all that before. I know, Obamacare which made insurance and deductibles so incredibly high, I could not afford it. To make it even worse, we were punished if we could not afford to pay over half our income on insurance and deductibles before it helped at all. Over 7 million people were priced out of insurance. It was a massive shell game. People who don't work won the lottery while the middle class got the hose. It was designed so the middle class foots the bill for 40% of the country who don't pay anything in. That was no accident. The whole purpose of it was to buy votes.
Could you share with me all the Bills Sanders authored or coauthored, that were passed and benefit me now?
originally posted by: Gojira54
The vast majority of Bernie supporters are spoiled immature brats with anger issues. They want everything handed to them, and they hate the world because they don't get everything they want. That's why they embrace socialism.
Hopefully, for many of them it will turn out to just be a phase kids go through before they grow up.. Like goths.
I was very liberal when I was 18-25... Voted for Clinton in 92 and 96... As I got older and actually experienced life, I leaned more to the middle.. Voted for Bush in 2000, but cast votes for some democrats running for office that year. Voted for Bush in 2004, but again voted for a mix of republicans and democrats for other offices. I stayed home in 08 and 12... I couldn't stand either presidential candidate, and my vote would have had no effect on any local elections.
Now I simply cannot cast a vote for a democrat. They have taken a HARD left turn in the last 20 years and are now openly embracing anti-american ideals such as socialism and communism. When I vote, I either vote for the republican, or nobody at all. And aside from abortion and marijuana, I tend to agree with the Republican side of any debate.
originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: pexx421
Do some math.
NATO requires 2%.
I said 3.5% for US military spending.
What's left over?
originally posted by: Gojira54
The vast majority of Bernie supporters are spoiled immature brats with anger issues. They want everything handed to them, and they hate the world because they don't get everything they want. That's why they embrace socialism.
Hopefully, for many of them it will turn out to just be a phase kids go through before they grow up.. Like goths.
I was very liberal when I was 18-25... Voted for Clinton in 92 and 96... As I got older and actually experienced life, I leaned more to the middle.. Voted for Bush in 2000, but cast votes for some democrats running for office that year. Voted for Bush in 2004, but again voted for a mix of republicans and democrats for other offices. I stayed home in 08 and 12... I couldn't stand either presidential candidate, and my vote would have had no effect on any local elections.
Now I simply cannot cast a vote for a democrat. They have taken a HARD left turn in the last 20 years and are now openly embracing anti-american ideals such as socialism and communism. When I vote, I either vote for the republican, or nobody at all. And aside from abortion and marijuana, I tend to agree with the Republican side of any debate.
I have to jump through 50 hoops to buy a home or start a business. I can’t eat certain foods I want. Or collect rainwater. Hm. Wonder where all these restrictions originated. Oh! Corporate market controls!!