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Things that won't happen;- The destruction of Damascus

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posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 05:02 PM
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The full title of this theme ought to be “Things that won’t happen in the end-times”.
I’m referring to those anticipated events, featuring in speculations about the end-times, which are based on misinterpretations of what the Bible says.

In this case, I’m looking at “the destruction of Damascus”.
This expectation is based on a genuine prophecy;
“Behold, Damascus will cease to be a city, and will become a heap of ruins”- Isaiah ch17 v1.
So any critique of the theory needs to be based on a better understanding of the way the prophecy should be applied.

We need to recognise, in the first place, that prophets are normally speaking to the people of their own time, and prophecies with a genuine reference to the end-times are few and far between.

Other prophecies of the fall of Damascus can be found.
In the time of Amos, the kingdom of Syria was friendly to Judah and hostile to the kingdom of Israel, and their offence was their treatment of Israel’s territory on the eastern side of Jordan;
“For three transgressions of Damascus and for four, I will not revoke the punishment; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing-sledges of iron.
So I will send a fire upon the house of Hazael, and it shall devour the strongholds of Ben-Hahad” (Amos ch1 vv3-4).
In Isaiah’s time there was a re-shuffling of the system of alliances, a classic “diplomatic revolution”.
An agreement was made between Rezin, king of Syria, and the unscrupulous adventurer Pekah the son of Remaliah, who had seized the throne of Israel by conspiring against the previous king.
The aims of their agreement were;
1) Let us go up against Judah and terrify it.
2) Let us conquer it for ourselves.
3) Let us set up the son of Tabe-el as king in the midst of it. (Isaiah ch7 v6)
They set themselves up to besiege Jerusalem, investing the city and probably blockading it.

Isaiah tried to encourage his king, and finally gave the well-known prophecy about the birth of a child.
“By the time the child knows how to refuse evil and choose the good”, he would be able to eat curds and honey.
In other words, the famine conditions of the siege would be over.
This would happen because both the besieging kings would be dead, thanks to the intervention of the king of Assyria.
This prophecy was fulfilled by Tiglath-Pilezer;
“The king of Assyria marched up against Damascus and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin”- 2 Kings ch16 v9

The various prophecies of the destruction of Damascus relate to this last event.
One reference to it has been tagged on to the previously quoted passage in Amos;
“I will break the bar of Damascus and cut off the inhabitants from the valley of Aven, and him that holds the sceptre from Beth-eden; and the people of Syria shall go into exile to Kir” (Amos ch1 v5).

The prophecy in Jeremiah belongs to the same era.
It begins with a report that Hamath and Arpad are confounded.
But the conquest of these cities is included in the boasting of Rabshekah at the Assyrian siege of Jerusalem;
“Has any of the gods of the nations delivered his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria? Where are the gods of Hamath and Arpad?” (Isaiah ch36 v19).
Which ties this prophecy to the Assyrian invasions, and the period of Ahaz and Hezekiah.
The passage culminates in the words “I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus and it shall devour the strongholds of Ben-hadad”, echoing the prophecy of Amos already quoted. (Jeremiah ch49 vv23-27)

When we look more closely at the “destruction” prophecy in Isaiah, we find that the fate of the city is linked with the downfall of “Ephraim”, or the kingdom of Israel.
“The fortress will disappear from Ephraim and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria will be like the glory of the children of Israel” (Isaiah ch17 v3).
That is the clue that this prophecy, like the previous prophecy in ch7, has been called out by the joint invasion of the armies of Israel and Syria under the leadership of Pekah and Rezin.
Therefore “her cities will be deserted” must be another reference to the exile in Kir.
For the purposes of Old Testament prophecy, Damascus ceases to be a city after that event.
We need not attach too much significance to “never to be occupied again”, which is the common hyperbole of the prophetic voice. Damascus was probably deserted long enough after the Assyrian conquest to make the prophet’s point.

The destruction of Damascus appears in this prophecy as a detached event, which has no sequel. An enemy of God’s people comes to a bad end. That’s it. In other prophecies, other enemies of God’s people come to a bad end. But we’re not shown any narrative links which connect these things to later events.

The supposed connection has been worked up by speculators who are eager to flesh out the scanty Biblical details about the events of the end-times, and build them into a consecutive narrative.
It is necessary to construct a narrative about the course of political events in those days, because the Bible itself does not provide one.
When prophecy talks about the end-times (which is not very often), the message is focussed on three main points;
1 ) There will be a power which sets itself against God and his people.
2 ) God will deal with them, in his own time.
3 ) Our function in this crisis will be to remain trusting and faithful.

That Is really all we need to know.
Armed with that information, the man of faith should be ready for anything that gets thrown at him.
Only the weaker faith needs the re-assurance of an elaborate and comforting timetable.




posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 05:13 PM
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Disraeli, just a reminder, you are claiming things that are clear in the preserved English Bible of the Authorized Version. If any of these things do come true you will be a false prophet.

The Temple is clearly said to be rebuilt in the book of Revelation. to say it wont means you are saying something Gd did not say and therefore you are a false teacher/prophet.

Just be careful, from what I can tell, anyone who teaches the exact opposite of what is found in the Holy Bible is not a saved individual. I am not judging you but the word does.
edit on 1/17/2020 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn
All I can say is that I am writing in faith and in good faith.

(P.S. This is the Damascus thread. I tend to give threads in the same series a common "umbrella" title- in this case "Things that won't happen"- preceding the more specific title.)


edit on 17-1-2020 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Disraeli, just a reminder, you are claiming things that are clear in the preserved English Bible of the Authorized Version. If any of these things do come true you will be a false prophet.

The Temple is clearly said to be rebuilt in the book of Revelation. to say it wont means you are saying something Gd did not say and therefore you are a false teacher/prophet.

Just be careful, from what I can tell, anyone who teaches the exact opposite of what is found in the Holy Bible is not a saved individual. I am not judging you but the word does.

When will the temple be rebuilt? Prior to the millennium or after when the kingdom is set up?



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
The full title of this theme ought to be “Things that won’t happen in the end-times”.
I’m referring to those anticipated events, featuring in speculations about the end-times, which are based on misinterpretations of what the Bible says.


Uhhh, NOPE. YOU do NOT have a flawless understanding or set of interpretations. From where I sit, the "misinterpretations" are wholesale in your writings.



In this case, I’m looking at “the destruction of Damascus”.
This expectation is based on a genuine prophecy;
“Behold, Damascus will cease to be a city, and will become a heap of ruins”- Isaiah ch17 v1.
So any critique of the theory needs to be based on a better understanding of the way the prophecy should be applied.


That prophecy is one of THE MOST reliable in all of Scripture. AND, it has NOT been fulfilled--obviously--because Damascus is still inhabited and has been continuously since the time of Isaiah. Therefore, your purported erudite narrative that followed that paragraph reads to me as essentially off the wall, irrational, illogical.



We need to recognise, in the first place, that prophets are normally speaking to the people of their own time, and prophecies with a genuine reference to the end-times are few and far between.


Yes & no. Mostly NO.

Many Biblical prophecies have a DUAL application to the time they were written and a future time.

Genuine prophecies regarding the END TIMES are plentiful. Actually, they comprise quite a number of verses. I forget the count. But it is many times your "few and far between."

This link cites 25 Bible Verses about End Times prophecy:

bible.knowing-jesus.com...

25 strikes me as well beyond few & far between.

This link cites J Barton Payne's Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy as listing 1,239 prophecies in the Old Testament and 578 prophecies in the New Testament for a total of 1,817. These were given in 8,352 verses.

==

This link cites 100 prophecies from 100 Prophecies, by George Konig and Ray Konig 3rd ed revised & expanded

It appears that some of his prophecies refer to those about Christ that have already been fulfilled.

www.100prophecies.org...

= =

This link cites 150 Chapters in the Bible on the End Times:

peoplegetready.org...

= =

This link cites "101 End Times Bible Prophecies."

admin.thrive.am...(9-31-14).pdf

==

I think Dr Chuck Missler handles End Times Prophecies about as well as anyone I know of.

www.khouse.org...

==





Other prophecies of the fall of Damascus can be found.


Which you wander about in rather convoluted fashion conflating all kinds of examples away from Isaiah's prophecy, intent & the END TIMES referred to.

I didn't find your narrative following worth much bother at all.



. . .

We need not attach too much significance to “never to be occupied again”, which is the common hyperbole of the prophetic voice. Damascus was probably deserted long enough after the Assyrian conquest to make the prophet’s point.


What UNMITIGATED NONSENSE.

When anyone starts explaining away clear & straightforward Scripture, it's best to understand/assume they are listening to the wrong source; hung up on their own misguided 'brilliance,' or simply a victim of poor teaching or other nonsense.

Almighty God Yehovah had a habit in His Word of saying what He meant and meaning what He said.

Yes, some things He challenges us to study & dig the truths out. That's no excuse to concoct all manner of convoluted blather to explain away what God said rather plainly.

"... probably deserted long enough . . . "

I believe archeology proves your assertion wrong.



The destruction of Damascus appears in this prophecy as a detached event, which has no sequel. An enemy of God’s people comes to a bad end. That’s it. In other prophecies, other enemies of God’s people come to a bad end. But we’re not shown any narrative links which connect these things to later events.


So?

It is entirely conceivable that God stuck that END TIMES prophecy about Damascus as a brazen, glaring unique MARKER that would be useful in & before the END TIMES to affirm the period concerned.

Your presuming to know the mind of God about why He did not follow that prophecy with stuff YOU decreed to be more fitting strikes me as dern near blasphemous. Obviously humility is not one of your top qualities.




When prophecy talks about the end-times (which is not very often),


NONSENSE. There's a wealth of verses about the END TIMES. Evidently God had a LOT to say about it that HE expected us to study and GET RIGHT.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board to do His will on that score.



Only the weaker faith needs the re-assurance of an elaborate and comforting timetable.


Ahhhh, more smug haughtiness. Barf.

Students of the END TIMES do not "NEED" the "re-assurance" of an "elaborate and comforting timetable."

I've studied Biblical prophecy since 1962. It has been a passion largely because it is fascinating to me to see how God describes coming event; to learn His character, priorities, emphases, themes in such narratives.

I have never put much stock in elaborate timetables. I've not sought them out as a comfort. I find most of them over-wrought and their authors come across about as smug as you do.

I put lots of things on a high shelf and wait for GOD ALMIGHTY YEHOVAH to confirm them IN HIS time.

I had oped that your thread would be more interesting and Biblical.

Oh well. Par for the course in the field, it seems.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:26 PM
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originally posted by: JON666
When will the temple be rebuilt? Prior to the millennium or after when the kingdom is set up?


To me, a logical, rational, congruent, Biblical understanding of that issue is easy enough to work out.

1. In order for various GREAT TRIBULATION prophecies to be fulfilled involving the Temple, there MUST be a new TEMPLE for them to occur in.

2. The Abomination of Desolation of satan's abuse of the altar & Holy of Holies would, in my mind, render THAT Temple unalterably polluted.

3. Therefore, I believe there will be yet another Temple built AFTER Armageddon for use during Christ's Millennial Reign as other prophecies indicate.

I don't think the matter is a lot more complex than that outline.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: JoseGarcia

originally posted by: JON666
When will the temple be rebuilt? Prior to the millennium or after when the kingdom is set up?


To me, a logical, rational, congruent, Biblical understanding of that issue is easy enough to work out.

1. In order for various GREAT TRIBULATION prophecies to be fulfilled involving the Temple, there MUST be a new TEMPLE for them to occur in.

2. The Abomination of Desolation of satan's abuse of the altar & Holy of Holies would, in my mind, render THAT Temple unalterably polluted.

3. Therefore, I believe there will be yet another Temple built AFTER Armageddon for use during Christ's Millennial Reign as other prophecies indicate.

I don't think the matter is a lot more complex than that outline.


That is your interpretation. My interpretation is is that the abomination was the continuation of the Jewish priesthood making animal sacrifes for 40 years (time of testing) after Jesus the spotless lamb gave the final sacrifice for sin.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: JoseGarcia
I think the premise "Prophets are talking about the end-times when they say they're talking about the end-times" will carry us a long way. I see generalised statements that God's enemies will attack, and that he will overcome them, and about the state of things after all his enemies have been overcome. I did a series last year about the New Testament take on the "final state" prophecies.

I don't believe the Bible intends to provide a more detailed narrative of events before the final battle. For one thing, we don't need one. The whole project of trying to identify a detailed narrative is a comparatively recent doctrinal innovation.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: JON666

That is your interpretation. My interpretation is is that the abomination was the continuation of the Jewish priesthood making animal sacrifes for 40 years (time of testing) after Jesus the spotless lamb gave the final sacrifice for sin.


WOW. I've never heard THAT off the wall claim.

The prophecy about the abomination of desolation is REASONABLY clear about involving some sort of image, idol, statue, being set up in the Temple's Holy of Holies

DURING the Great Tribulation.

NOTHING ELSE FITS THE PROPHECY.

That much is NOT one of the more obscure, complex END TIMES prophecies.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoseGarcia
I think the premise "Prophets are talking about the end-times when they say they're talking about the end-times" will carry us a long way. I see generalised statements that God's enemies will attack, and that he will overcome them, and about the state of things after all his enemies have been overcome. I did a series last year about the New Testament take on the "final state" prophecies.

I don't believe the Bible intends to provide a more detailed narrative of events before the final battle. For one thing, we don't need one. The whole project of trying to identify a detailed narrative is a comparatively recent doctrinal innovation.



According to you.

I don't know that God intends for us to have an exhaustively detailed timeline of the END TIMES. He doesn't reveal a lot of stuff to the enemy, for one.

However, that does NOT mean that He leaves His kids wholesale in the dark.

I also quibble about where you draw your lines between specific & general. Not my reality.

I wish you well and hope you are an authentic believer as you appear to be.

I've been backwards & forwards over a lot of this stuff for decades. There is not a 0.00001% chance you are going to change my mind on anything you've written about above.

I doubt I"m going to change your mind on anything, either.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: JoseGarcia
Next time- the return or otherwise of the Genesis giants.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: JoseGarcia
Why would God setup system again this side of the millennium that He destroyed in 70AD? The millennium temple will be for a memorial. God does not dwell in temples made of stone. God used the Romans to destroy the temple then used them to spread the gospel.


edit on 17-1-2020 by JON666 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 08:52 PM
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originally posted by: JON666
a reply to: JoseGarcia
Why would God setup system again this side of the millennium that He destroyed in 70AD? The millennium temple will be for a memorial. God does not dwell in temples made of stone. God used the Romans to destroy the temple then used them to spread the gospel.



There you go again conflating things based on YOUR ASSUMPTIONS & BIASES

about how

ALMIGHTY GOD YEHOVAH

"SHOULD"

Run HIS universe according to YOUR sensibilities & fantasies about reality.

God often fails to give WHY's to His doings & statements.

I find your assumptions on this score cheeky, arrogant, smug & off the wall.

As long as you persist in displaying such, I'll persist in calling you out on it.

1. I consider (as do many scholars) it horrifically hazardous to PRESUME to tell ALMIGHTY GOD YEHOVAH that HE did not mean what He plainly said.

2. He fairly clearly in Scripture indicates that there will be a Temple during Tribulation wherein satan will set up an image or his image in the Holy of Holies.

3. A different set of verses document ahead of time that there will be another Temple during Christ's Millennial Reign which--rather mystifyingly--there will evidently be sacrifices. Memorial sacrifices? Who knows. God does not explain. He merely says it--almost seemingly in passing.

4. But hey--go ahead and add to & take away from God's written Word. We'll see how that works out for you.

edit on 1712020 by JoseGarcia because: typo



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: JoseGarcia
Next time- the return or otherwise of the Genesis giants.



Quite a lot of reports indicate the giants are already here and have been a long time.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: JoseGarcia


Then let's just forget the redemption of Jesus and we can all just start sacrificing animal again. Same outcome?



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 10:35 PM
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I'm pretty sure it already happened long time ago.

Mongol civil war of Damascus

Karamanid flag looks close to Isreali flag

Oh dam, I found it. See Bible is a history book.

Aram-Damascus

Quote: "• 880 BC  – 842 BC
Hadadezer
• 842 BC  – 796 BC
Hazael
• 754 BC  – 732 BC
Rezin (last)"

The 21st century war in Syria has nothing to do with this bible verse. It is the mark of the beast we are worrying about under corporate influence(microchip, nano warfare coming up)

edit on 17-1-2020 by makemap because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: JON666
a reply to: JoseGarcia


Then let's just forget the redemption of Jesus and we can all just start sacrificing animal again. Same outcome?


Conflating an either/or when none exists is not wise.

You seem to be assuming that God could not possibly have any two track context for a period of time.

Certainly salvation through the sacrificial Blood of Jesus is central to all of history--past, present & future & to all of creation.

God makes reasonably clear that HE carries on a very long term project with the children of Jacob.

Further, that HE uses them and His work with them as object lessons & illustrations for all creation.

You are welcome to tell Almighty God Yehovah that He does not know what He's doing but I don't recommend it.

He has this habit of expecting mere mortals to learn HIS comms--regardless of how much study it takes over however long.

Trying to shove Him or His doings into mortal tidy little small-minded boxes will NEVER work with Almighty God Yehovah.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: makemap
I'm pretty sure it already happened long time ago.

Mongol civil war of Damascus

Karamanid flag looks close to Isreali flag

. . .

The 21st century war in Syria has nothing to do with this bible verse. It is the mark of the beast we are worrying about under corporate influence(microchip, nano warfare coming up)


Uhhhh This is not really rocket science. I think most 8 year olds could grok it.

1. The Bible makes very clear enough that AFTER DAMASCUS IS UTTERLY 100% TOTALLY DESTROYED, IT WILL NEVER BE LIVED IN, AGAIN.

2. Damascus has been continuously lived in since Isaiah's prophecy.

3. Therefore, the Isaiah predicted total & forever lasting destruction of Damascus has NOT occurred.

4. It is fairly logical to virtually certain that said destruction will occur before the end of Armageddon and possibly to probably as early as before the Great Tribulation or in the first half of the Great Tribulation--possibly at the half-way 3.5 years.

edit on 1712020 by JoseGarcia because: addendum



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

That’s an interesting comment about who is saved and by what. I thought if you loved and accepted Christ, showed the fruit, thought that was enough. Plenty of denominations with plenty of different understandings, Calvinism, molinism, Arminianism, are they not saved as they teach the opposites. Rapture, it’s tenuous? Infant baptism? Biblical inerrancy?

Dis has a different view on prophecy and I think it worth stating, right or wrong.

We are called to be prepared, called to have knowledge and I find this valuable.

Not denying your reply and the concern in it, I appreciate it though
Plenty of people have different views and teach what is not in the bible based simply on the amount of denominations in the Christian community



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

That’s an interesting comment about who is saved and by what. I thought if you loved and accepted Christ, showed the fruit, thought that was enough. Plenty of denominations with plenty of different understandings, Calvinism, molinism, Arminianism, are they not saved as they teach the opposites. Rapture, it’s tenuous? Infant baptism? Biblical inerrancy?

Dis has a different view on prophecy and I think it worth stating, right or wrong.

We are called to be prepared, called to have knowledge and I find this valuable.

Not denying your reply and the concern in it, I appreciate it though
Plenty of people have different views and teach what is not in the bible based simply on the amount of denominations in the Christian community



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