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Change in Tactics: The New Goal

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posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:24 PM
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I've been watching the continuing drama surrounding the impeachment circus, and a few days ago it stopped making sense.

Now, whenever something these politicians in DC do doesn't make good sense, it gets my attention. Why? Because I know these are not dumb people. Say what you want about Pelosi, Shiff, Nadler, Clinton, Obama... they are very smart people. They know how to go about getting what they want. After all, they have all fooled over half of the population on multiple occasions.

I knew what happened to start the impeachment: Trump got too close to the truth in Ukraine and the Democrats panicked. Pelosi changed her tune almost immediately, from opposing impeachment to demanding it. Adam Schiff went off the rails breaking every law and legal principle in sight to build a case against Trump to impeach him... even misrepresenting Trump's own words in the phone call transcript. There have been cries for impeachment since before Trump was inaugurated, but not to this level. The only reason for all this that made sense was that the Democrats (and, to be fair, likely some Republicans as well) had been using Ukraine as a money-laundering paradise. Zelensky is the Ukrainian version of Donald Trump: anti-establishment and anti-corruption. With him in power and talking to Trump about actual, open and thorough investigations, suddenly there was a spectre of prison time hanging over these politicians' collective heads. Trump had to go, and he had to go NOW!

But it backfired. The polls didn't show what the Democrats expected; they actually showed that the American people either didn't care about the accusations or worse, were turning their support for Trump. Oops. So they pushed the Articles of Impeachment through... this was an emergency, they told us! Trump must be removed NOW!

And no one cared.

Suddenly, Pelosi is holding up the Articles of Impeachment... those same articles that were so desperately needed right then, right now, a few days earlier. OK, maybe she's actually trying to force her will on the Senate. Fat chance of that happening with McConnell in control. So she fails in that bid and takes a second vote to send the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate. Why? She already had authorization to send the Articles of Impeachment! That's like a city council voting to accept a contractor's bid on some road work, then having to vote again to pay him when it's finished! No, no, the vote to adopt the Articles of Impeachment included authorization to send them to the Senate. There had to be some other reason.

Then it broke today that this Lev Parnas dude has come forward with serious allegations claiming everything Schiff had been speculating and parodying was true. Really? This guy has a long and sordid past of illegal and should-be-illegal activities, and is presently under investigation by the NYSD. This is the same NYSD that worked closely with Mueller to investigate Trump and who (I believe) tried to coerce Cohen to make up dirt on Trump. Parnas' testimony is apparently already in the body of evidence sent with the Articles of Impeachment... but that couldn't happen without a vote to include them. Well, that explains the vote to send the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate... it also included authorization for Parnas' statements to be included.

But why then was so much noise made about witnesses? Everyone thought that was the big question that was holding everything up. The debate over witnesses is still going on! The witness stipulation in Trump's trial is the same as it was in the Clinton trial... hear what they have, then decide if the parties involved need to call witnesses.

Then today it all clicked into place. I heard at least three prominent Democrat leaders make the statement that if the Senate did not conduct a 'fair trial with witnesses,' they were obstructing justice. Of course! That was the plan all along! Start an argument over witnesses, then claim that the argument is indication of bias! After all, Trump will not be removed; it requires 67 Senators to vote for renewal, and the Democrats have 47 Senators. They're not going to convince 20 Republicans to switch their votes, especially given the caliber of "evidence" that has been presented.

It never was about removing Trump. That was the cover. It was about using Senate support for Trump to re-take the Senate! If they can pull that off, and keep the House in 2020, the Presidency doesn't matter... the Democrats can impeach and remove Trump then!

It's obvious to me that Parnas was being pressured the whole time. The NYSD was going to get someone to crack and spread dirt against Trump... it was only a matter of time until they found someone slimy enough to lie through their teeth to save their hide. It happened to be Parnas.

In the meantime, there is this:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said "there would be a special prosecutor appointed" if allegations Lev Parnas claimed about Attorney General William Barr being involved with the effort to withhold aid from Ukraine were accurate.

So now she's going after Bill Barr. Why? We're right back to the Ukrainian problem. If Bill Barr is discredited, he won't be able to bring charges against people, because he will be seen as covering his butt. Cover for any future allegations. After all, this plan could take time, and there's still that problem with Zelensky investigating Burisma. A Special Prosecutor could run interference for that

All the pieces fit together. If the Senate doesn't accept the "evidence" that Schiff has thrown together as fact, the Republicans in the Senate will be 'exposed' as corrupt by the Democrats, playing the role of "defender of the Constitution" for the public. It won't work; the Democrats know that. It isn't supposed to change any votes! It's supposed to get the people to turn on their Republican Senators so the Democrats can take control of the Senate in 2020.

I don't think it will work; I think support for a Special Prosecutor for Bill Barr will be sorely lacking among the people. I think the people are smart enough to understand that "fair" does not mean "agreeing with Democrats." I think the House itself will turn bright red come November, and the Senate will stay red as well. But at least now I know what these conniving little demons are up to.

TheRedneck




posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:32 PM
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Even more:

They've telegraphed Biden as the nominee all along. *Biden* was the one being interfered with even though he had not declared, even though he has not won the nomination, etc. They've squealed as though Trump was actively running against Biden and no one else the whole time and playing dirty pool to get in his way.

Create a long, drawn-out slog in the Senate, and what do you have? A process that Biden's ostensible rivals *must* sit through, and you hamstring both Warren and Sanders and ensure Biden keeps the party in Democrat machine hands.

You also create a process that stands a chance of damaging the president so badly that even a compromised candidate like Biden ought to be able to beat him.

Affect the outcome of the 2020 Election, indeed!

Ball is in your court Cocaine Mitch.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:44 PM
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Ya know what the problem is with your logic?

You are one smart fella. But ... you give other people too much credit.

Yeah ... you can post a decent opinion of the facts here at ATS, but ... 99% of the American citizens aren't smart enough to think things through the way you can. And, how many people read these boards? 1,500?



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah, was trying to not do a two- or three-post OP.

Biden ran for President primarily as cover for Hunter, I'm sure. He announced his candidacy days after Zelensky was elected, with the statement "I had to run." Of course he did; otherwise he couldn't claim (through Pelosi et al) that the investigation into Burisma was improper.

And a side effect of the impeachment is that Biden will continue on to be the nominee. Warren and Sanders will be sitting in the Senate Chambers listening to Schiff parodies instead of campaigning. Sorry Bernie... again...

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm having trouble grasping the concept that democrats win any seat in the House or Senate outside of heavy leftist districts.


+6 more 
posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:54 PM
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a reply to: Deplorable

Eventually, people have to either wake up to the truth or we will all suffer the consequences.

And ATS is one of the few places left where this kind of stuff can be posted. Try it on FaceBook, Twitter, or YouTube, and you're banned before the upload completes.

I think that makes us a "right-wing" site...


TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Doug Jones (D-AL)

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:00 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck
Very nice post
Thank you



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Well, perhaps I should never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:14 PM
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Your account of the goings on are certainly entertaining. And I say that with respect; It is a compelling and well told theory.

But for me its simply too complicated to be true. It gives the Democrat leaders to much machiavellian credit. And it also gives Trump to much incorruptible exoneration.

I think reality is much more simple, and gray than this.

Reality is that we have a hipper tribalistic society at the moment; a situation that has been building up long before Donald Trump took office. Than two things happened; 1) the great recession had worn the nerves of so many people on both sides to the point that the place became a tinderbox. And 2) Donald Trump came along with the type of personality that could light a bucket of water on fire.

After that we all just lost our collective minds. For or against the president we do it with so much passion and anger it really doesn't mater what the truth is ... hell right now we can't even see far enough past our own noises to see much of anything let alone the truth.

And as an extension of that; Right now none of the things our political leaders do make good sense. Their nothing more than chickens running around with their heads cut off. Some times they stumble into something that benefits them; some times stumble into the feces their throwing around at each other. It would actually be funny if their childishness didn't impact our lives so much.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I like this theory on it.

Have my own as well about this being the DNC plan to knock out the 3 senators and handing Biden to the dogs. He would get trounced but it may be a sacrificial lamb kind of move similar to Bernie with Hillary.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:25 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

But surely, if they have been pushing for impeachment since day one, then the fact that they are methodically going through with it, wouldn't actually be a change in tactics?

You might see changes in tactics, but you are reading the details of what the Democrats are thinking from Republican news and blogs. These have the LEAST idea of what the Democrats are thinking and what their tactics are supposed to achieve.

And the polls just don't show what the people who post on ATS believe they do. The Democrats and the Republicans are roughly in balance and the numbers oscillate wildly. It just isn't true that Trump is ahead by a large margin. It's still anyone's game.

Latest Election Polls - RealClear Politics



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm having trouble grasping the concept that democrats win any seat in the House or Senate outside of heavy leftist districts.


It's because you are clueless to what is really going on. I don't know if you close yourself off from all input except conservative sources or you just have trouble processing information. I watch them all and then make my own decisions as to the truth. I find it impossible that anyone but the most clueless could look at all the evidence out there and come to any conclusion but guilty as charged. What he did is a clear abuse of power. Him continuing to cover it up is clearly obstruction. Until the obstruction i don' think he should have been removed from office.


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posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:34 PM
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a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

I live in Portland Oregon, Mecca for the leftist mindset and people here, actual screaming leftists think Schiff is a ####ing retard.

To think that I am closed off for some reason is laughable at best and pathetic at worst.

Put your hatred away and try, TRY to think rationally for just a moment.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm having trouble grasping the concept that democrats win any seat in the House or Senate outside of heavy leftist districts.


It's because you are clueless to what is really going on. I don't know if you close yourself off from all input except conservative sources or you just have trouble processing information. I watch them all and then make my own decisions as to the truth. I find it impossible that anyone but the most clueless could look at all the evidence out there and come to any conclusion but guilty as charged. What he did is a clear abuse of power. Him continuing to cover it up is clearly obstruction. Until the obstruction i don' think he should have been removed from office.


That's interesting I watch them all too and then make my own decisions as to the truth. I find it impossible that anyone can find a coherent signal in all the noise, fluff and angry blustering to draw an emotionless unbiased conclusion of guilt or innocence.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Not a bad plan. Use the impeachment to bolster their numbers in the Senate, then sabotage Trump's second turn, making the 2024 candidate a shoe in.

Unfortunately, there's one drawback to that plan. Joe Biden might get the Democratic nomination. It's a longshot, I grant you. He's running against a very intelligent, highly popular group of moderates.

But if he does, he will easily defeat Trump by highlighting his experience, his foreign policy savvy, and his business acumen.

Once Joe Biden is President, he will put an end to all this Congressional malarkey. During his second term, he may even do something about Supreme Court shenanigans and general government tom foolery.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

Obstruction of what? As in can you cite me a law anywhere?



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm having trouble grasping the concept that democrats win any seat in the House or Senate outside of heavy leftist districts.


It's because you are clueless to what is really going on. I don't know if you close yourself off from all input except conservative sources or you just have trouble processing information. I watch them all and then make my own decisions as to the truth. I find it impossible that anyone but the most clueless could look at all the evidence out there and come to any conclusion but guilty as charged. What he did is a clear abuse of power. Him continuing to cover it up is clearly obstruction. Until the obstruction i don' think he should have been removed from office.


I guess the courts should probably determine if Executive Privilege is considered obstruction.

Oh wait... it isn't.

Or maybe rule on the Constitutionality of a scenario where if the legislative and executive branches have an issue, it goes to the judicial branch to determine...

Oh wait. That's how it actually works.

If the charge of obstruction is what sent you over the edge then you were riding your tricycle pretty close to it in the first place.



To the OP, I applaud your theory but as others have pointed out I think you are overestimating the stupidity of both the Democratic leadership and their base.




posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


Well, perhaps I should never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.

It's not the American voter as much as it is the deck stacked against them.

Never underestimate your opponent. These politicians are not dummies.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

That's the second time you've said that.

They really aren't that smart.

I used to think so but really, they are just stupid with lots of stupid people following them.



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