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Trump’s Unprecedented Attack on Iran and the Rule of Law

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posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: TritonTaranis

this is the only thing i could find that talks about that chicago.suntimes.com... no idea how they lean as a source but they are comparing trumps first two years to obamas first two years. instead of 8 years of Obama and well 3ish years of trump so far if that makes sense? and it covers numbers of drone strikes not casualties . and also seems to focus on strikes in yemen under Obama and trump as opposed to grand totals


According to a 2018 report in The Daily Beast, Obama launched 186 drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan during his first two years in office. In Trump’s first two years, he launched 238. The Trump administration has carried out 176 strikes in Yemen in just two years, compared with 154 there during all eight years of Obama’s tenure, according to a count by The Associated Press and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. Experts also say drone strikes under President Trump have surged in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. And, as was the case during Obama’s presidency, these strikes have resulted in untold numbers of civilian casualties. According to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, U.S. drone strikes in Afghanistan killed more than 150 civilians in the first nine months of 2018.




posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe



I don't even support the drone strike that killed Sgt. Salami, but there was NOTHING new about this kind of American diplomacy. This was not some big new development in American warfare.


Obama killed Iranian generals in Iraq? Name one and I'll concede defeat.

This wasn't a non-state actor, they didn't even pretend to GAF this time. Get it? This is a blatant violation of international law and you lack the intellectual honesty to admit it.

This isn't even close to your "little" war in Iraq. They didn't even bother to get the UN on board with fearmongering and lies this time.



Take your BS elsewhere.


Why? Because you can't debate this without addressing a single argument? Yeah. I can see that.

*giggles*



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: TritonTaranis




Wait... Obama 6 wars in 7 different country in 8 years?

Your seriously think Trump killed more


It's not an opinion, it's a fact.


“Even the coalitions’s own figures show more civilians were killed by them in 2017 than in 2014, -15 and -16 combined.”

'Crazy numbers': civilian deaths from airstrikes almost double in a year


There were ten times more air strikes in the covert war on terror during President Barack Obama’s presidency than under his predecessor, George W. Bush.

Obama embraced the US drone programme, overseeing more strikes in his first year than Bush carried out during his entire presidency. A total of 563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau.

Obama’s covert drone war in numbers: ten times more strikes than Bush


Airwars researchers estimate that at least 2,300 civilians likely died from Coalition strikes overseen by the Obama White House—roughly 80 each month in Iraq and Syria. As of July 13, more than 2,200 additional civilians appear to have been killed by Coalition raids since Trump was inaugurated—upwards of 360 per month, or 12 or more civilians killed for every single day of his administration.

The Coalition’s own confirmed casualty numbers—while much lower than other estimates—also show the same trend. Forty percent of the 603 civilians so far admitted killed by the alliance died in just the first four months of Trump’s presidency, the Coalition’s own data show.

Trump’s Air War Has Already Killed More Than 2,000 Civilians
edit on 16-1-2020 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

I can't address a single fallatious argument you or the author has presented. You are correct. I'm not able to counter the rabid ferocity you have built up in opposition to what is, given historical precedent, normal behavior for an American President.

Yeah, you do you. I'm out.

Have a good weekend.




posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:42 PM
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Totally worth it, check out the butthurt o meter its off the di charts.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:44 PM
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This is the reason why I think you should have to be able to pass a civics test before you can vote........

Jesus what a cluster this is , with so many people who have NO idea how our gov actually works......

The democrat leaders know this, and so they capitalize on their followings ignorance, know theyll continue to parrot it without ever looking into it...........

And they call us conservatives the sheep.......



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


If Iran , a Religious Dictatorship , EVER Develops Nuclear Weapons and the Missile Technology to Launch them at Predetermined Targets , you can be Assured they Will Use them . This Must NEVER Happen even if it means Killing Every single Alleged Leader of theirs who would Even Dare to Consider their Use .


edit on 16-1-2020 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion

This wasn't a non-state actor, they didn't even pretend to GAF this time. Get it? This is a blatant violation of international law and you lack the intellectual honesty to admit it.



He was not civilian... He was a military combatant labeled first a terrorist by Bush in 2007 and then later by Obama. Even Warren just recently said he was a terrorist. Then we have him in the country near where Iran backed militants attacked our embassy. We also have a good number of people that have stated he was planning future attacks...so what is your point here that he was too big to kill?



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 06:30 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

The UK labeled extinction rebellion a terrorist organization recently, I guess you're free to drone away a bunch of annoying dissidents on the street as well now? Go ahead!



We also have a good number of people that have stated he was planning future attacks...so what is your point here that he was too big to kill?


No imminent threat. You get that, right? Which renders the whole thing a violation of US and international law.

I miss the time when ATS wan't full of oligarch cretins with zero sense for all the conspirational tangents flying around. Deep State actors pushing an agenda maybe? You're not the first person to miss the point entirely tho, you're in good company!

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask



The democrat leaders know this, and so they capitalize on their followings ignorance, know theyll continue to parrot it without ever looking into it


The few lefties in this thread already debunked the oh-so peaceful Nobel price winner legacy on their own. All I can see is a bunch of justifications to act like a warmongering piece of Dronebama, and worse. And you call that winning?

So much for the war on forever warfare, eh? Do you even listen to yourself? Where are the conservatives with a spine?



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion

The UK labeled extinction rebellion a terrorist organization recently, I guess you're free to drone away a bunch of annoying dissidents on the street as well now? Go ahead!


We are not the UK, and we are talking the difference between a group and an individual, terrorist do die to drones so the 4000 Obama killed were not attacking anyone at the moment too, so in this case bad man died... end of story. The ME has been an active battle field for the last 18 years if you haven't noticed...This also makes things rather different compared to your simple logic you are trying to use. The man was a military combatant and deemed a terrorist who just happened to be were people he controlled attack our embassy. Even you can connect the dots...





No imminent threat. You get that, right? Which renders the whole thing a violation of US and international law.


Like in the next ten minutes...lol what is imminent? 10 mins, a day, week, month, year, a few days before? So lets go back to Obama's 4000 that were also in your violation, so where are your 4000 posts on those? I would say we been in your so called violation everyday since 911. In this case we are talking a very tight window of opportunity with no other options to get the guy...its not like Iran would hand him over for trial.

Once again you are either just saying Orange Man Bad in your post over and over, or you believe the guy was too big to kill....




edit on 16-1-2020 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: VictorVonDoom




I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you have a problem with Trump drone striking people, repeal and don't renew the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act is the problem, not Trump. As bad as you think Trump is as President, I can just about guarantee you that there will be someone worse down the road. Someone you definitely don't want having Patriot Act powers.


Could you expand on that? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see why the Patriot Act would be the problem. It certainly plays a role in this forever war of yours but I'm not sure your point sticks here as well.


I'll try.

Without the Patriot Act and with no declaration of war, there would be no legal justification for killing an unarmed person in this manner. If you suspect someone has committed a crime, you arrest them, charge them, and give them a fair trial. That's the way things are supposed to happen under our legal system. If somebody kills somebody and flees the jurisdiction, there are legal processes to bring them back and face justice. If those processes fail, it's usually just oh well. That happens a lot, too. Assassinations are carried out by spies and are universally considered unlawful by most countries. Including ours. Extraditions are a little fuzzier, but even then the point is to bring them to trial.

Under the Patriot Act, it's a different ballgame. You just officially declare someone a terrorist and it's open season. You can even kill them first and declare them a terrorist after. No need to prove anything because the evidence is all secret.

If you had the right (or wrong) person in office at the time, he could have just bombed the embassy in London to kill Julian Assange. Patriot Act, we're good.

We could find out where Ghislaine Maxwell is hiding in Israel and level the city block. All good, she was a terrorist.

All you need is the right psychopath in the White House and no one is safe. And we have no shortage of psychopaths trying to get there. You think Trump is bad? Thank your lucky stars I'm not President. I'd be bunker-busting drug cartel mansions until the Patriot Act was repealed.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

This wasn't a non-state actor, they didn't even pretend to GAF this time. Get it? This is a blatant violation of international law and you lack the intellectual honesty to admit it.



He was not civilian... He was a military combatant labeled first a terrorist by Bush in 2007 and then later by Obama. Even Warren just recently said he was a terrorist. Then we have him in the country near where Iran backed militants attacked our embassy. We also have a good number of people that have stated he was planning future attacks...so what is your point here that he was too big to kill?


How DARE you sir! He was on his way to save 1000 kittens and 1000 puppies AND 1000 crippled babies when he was unceremoniously assassinated, doesn't it sound worse now, assassinated by Trump in cold blood.

Obama sent people to heaven with drone strikes, but Trump commits assassinations.



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

Without the Patriot Act and with no declaration of war, there would be no legal justification for killing an unarmed person in this manner. If you suspect someone has committed a crime, you arrest them, charge them, and give them a fair trial. That's the way things are supposed to happen under our legal system. If somebody kills somebody and flees the jurisdiction, there are legal processes to bring them back and face justice. If those processes fail, it's usually just oh well. That happens a lot, too. Assassinations are carried out by spies and are universally considered unlawful by most countries. Including ours. Extraditions are a little fuzzier, but even then the point is to bring them to trial.


We are talking about a combat zone too and the guy was a military combatant. If we sent in a team to capture him does anyone think his team and even himself would not have a ton of fire power to fight back? He has been labeled a terrorist for 12 years now across 3 Presidents....I think we can say he was open season....



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

This wasn't a non-state actor, they didn't even pretend to GAF this time. Get it? This is a blatant violation of international law and you lack the intellectual honesty to admit it.



He was not civilian... He was a military combatant labeled first a terrorist by Bush in 2007 and then later by Obama. Even Warren just recently said he was a terrorist. Then we have him in the country near where Iran backed militants attacked our embassy. We also have a good number of people that have stated he was planning future attacks...so what is your point here that he was too big to kill?


How DARE you sir! He was on his way to save 1000 kittens and 1000 puppies AND 1000 crippled babies when he was unceremoniously assassinated, doesn't it sound worse now, assassinated by Trump in cold blood.

Obama sent people to heaven with drone strikes, but Trump commits assassinations.


You had me at kittens...



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero



In this case we are talking a very tight window of opportunity with no other options to get the guy...its not like Iran would hand him over for trial.


We'll never find out. And a tight window is something else entirely, this is more about retaliation and deterrence.

Isn't this a relief? We've waited so long to have this last layer of flimsy justifications fall apart in a criminal moment of pure clarity. This is it! In a way I'm glad it has all been thrown out the window.

Who's the Big Gubmint fanboi now, my dear morons? Is there any crime you wouldn't commit for the glory of the empire? Of course not!



Once again you are either just saying Orange Man Bad in your post over and over, or you believe the guy was too big to kill....


That or you still don't get it. None of it.
In context of this forever warfare it's more like:

Walker Bad
Hussein Worse
John the Worst

The Dreamteam of Middle Names from Middle Earth. Fantastic!



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Agreed, thanks for the clarification! I was hoping you would nail it and that was pretty awesome. Thank you, Sir!



I'd be bunker-busting drug cartel mansions until the Patriot Act was repealed.


Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new presidential candidate! I'd vote for you once I immigrated illegally, unless Bernie steals your idea of course. And I think he should.

Totally radical and 'slightly' mad, but you'll likely hit only the worst kind of CIA spooks and "freedom fighters" one way or another. Who am I not to get behind that operation?

Plus we get all the dope we want for free.




edit on 16-1-2020 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Just keep being you. We understand who you are.

This goes out to all the Soleimani lovers and fan boys. He'll always be with you and all of America knows your



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero




The man was a military combatant and deemed a terrorist who just happened to be were people he controlled attack our embassy. Even you can connect the dots...


And he was in a country he was not authorized to be in (thats a UN thing not just a US thing) and he was planning more attacks........

We took out an actual terrorist that you guys are screaming about, while making excuses for Iran who shot down 180 innocent souls out of the sky.

Give me a freaking break...........possibly the biggest virtue signal either........

The TDS is so strong you guys are literally defending terrorist and a regime that murders gays wholesale, protesters in the street.......a group youre suppose to champion............

Unless youve got a mental disorder, theres no way you can parse that and not see the hypocrisy..........



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe




Just keep being you. We understand who you are.

This goes out to all the Salami lovers and fan boys.


See? Fixed that for ya.
And I thought you know who I am? RUDE! We don't even eat Salami, numbnut.




Early returns here
read em and weep




The flag, the clan, the gang, the party


edit on 16-1-2020 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2020 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion

Who's the Big Gubmint fanboi now, my dear morons? Is there any crime you wouldn't commit for the glory of the empire? Of course not!


Find out what? That he was one of the biggest bad actors of the world...We already know that, you already know that.

Look we been at war since like 2003, there is nothing fair in war. There are rules I agree, but you can't suggest this guy was some civilian innocence that was murdered. He wasn't even a casualty of war. He was a primary player of war plain and simple. People who play at war tend to die, and war isn't something where you stand there and wait for the person to hit you first. I get it, you hate war, OK but don't play this off as something the legal system would have over site over as all your logic tends to go, and that is the really the game you are trying playing here in trying to apply the legal system to war and it doesn't work ever.

This has nothing to do with Trump... This war was in the makings over a decade before Trump, so I'm not sure your point in suggesting "fanboi" here.



That or you still don't get it. None of it.
In context of this forever warfare it's more like:


I get it.. forever war...Patriots act... I been fighting America's wars and contingencies since 1980 and I still do. I don't like forever wars and I agree we should have stayed out of the ME all along. I truly hate the Patriots act as I see it as the biggest threat ever to our freedom that we have ever faced, but it is what it is... If I was going to suggest a conspiracy I would say the Patriots act is pure NWO.

This guy was one of the biggest bad actors of the world and I'm glad he is dead, and Trump is such a small player in this game I don't know why you waste your words on him.



edit on 16-1-2020 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



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