Navy - Top-secret UFO files could cause "grave damage" to U.S. national security if released

a reply to: Windigoone

I don't think much is clear or an explanation would be forthcoming.

They could indeed have been holographic i suppose, projected from where or what through?

Tell you this you don't go from 27,000ft to 50ft almost instantaneously without being able to control inertia.

And as far as I'm aware there is currently no known material or technology that is able to eliminate or negate the effects of inertia that all objects with mass possess.

The physics are beyond our comprehension nevermind the science and technologies required to do so if it was made of anything other than light, and even then that's a stretch.

a reply to: Windigoone


You dont know its a craft.

And what use is projecting a hologram? Its impossible with out technology to project a hologram that shows up on radar.

It was a craft.

I should clarify the above post — it was largely the vaunted PILOTS who created the MYTH the tic tac is a “craft”.

Favor was quoted as saying, “i would sure love to fly that craft” (or something to that effect).

Then, in the next breath, the pilots repeatedly state, “it defied the laws of physics”!?!?!?!!?!!!!

They also say, erroneously, that it was “flying”, as in “a plane flying”. You would never point at a cloud and say, “look its flying!” You would say, “the cloud is IN THE AIR”... not flying.

Over and over these pilots make misleading leading-statements. That is either due to projection on their part - assuming that everything in the air that moves must be a plane or craft of some sort (as they are trained to do), or they are misleading intentionally.

Well, for a beamed hologram, for instance, it is NOT a craft, it is “piloted” by a guy onboard a floating boat at a computer terminal, and it defies no laws of physics, and it is in the air, but its not flying, and it can go from horizon to horizon in seconds.

This physics are obvious. Idk if its the internet pundits/pilots/ttsa misleading people, or if aliens-internet-lore misled them, or if people need aliens so much they would rather throw logical analysis out the window.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Windigoone

I don't think much is clear or an explanation would be forthcoming.

They could indeed have been holographic i suppose, projected from where or what through?

Tell you this you don't go from 27,000ft to 50ft almost instantaneously without being able to control inertia.

And as far as I'm aware there is currently no known material or technology that is able to eliminate or negate the effects of inertia that all objects with mass possess.

The physics are beyond our comprehension nevermind the science and technologies required to do so if it was made of anything other than light, and even then that's a stretch.

Thats a foolishly misleading statement and assumption. How much inertia does a flashlight beam experience? A laser beam? A hologram? NONE basically. So the physics fits. Sorry to disappoint you, its not a craft. Of course if you want to believe that physics is irrelevant and our military is stupid, you go right ahead.

a reply to: Windigoone

So from where or what is the holographic projection emanating if that what it is?

What about the way lasers perform in atmospheric conditions and refraction how did they lick those problems?

How do you get light to return a radar signature?

a reply to: Windigoone

Light with mass, that's like pea and ham with chicken.

Those must be some really special photons.

Hi all. I would agree with assumption that it is real craft. If it was a hologram then why would it needed to look like a craft..? 'Them' could project anything of any shape but then again, what purpose hologram would serve if it's only focused light? But yes, it moves as if it was only focused light guided by 'laser gun' (source of hologram).
Here we have an impossible physics defying laws.

Anti gravity? Perhaps. Anti gravity would imply anti inertia I think.

On the other hand anti gravity tech will work only in proximity to massive objects like a planet. There is practically no massive objects in interstellar space...nothing to use this tech to push the spaceship from.
Either the craft has to get initial push strong enough from get go to continue inertial high speed motion to another star or the craft can use number of planets in our solar system to push against to get the speed required.

Another point .. What if interstellar travel is not possible in a meaningful way? Here is an idea that 'aliens' might be us from the distant future when time travel is made real.
'Them' may be us but so distant into the future that to call them 'humans' is not the right word, total different kind of species.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Windigoone

So from where or what is the holographic projection emanating if that what it is?

What about the way lasers perform in atmospheric conditions and refraction how did they lick those problems?

How do you get light to return a radar signature?

Well, those are all great questions. I Could give you some evidence-based speculation, but that would take quite a bit of space and time. I was not privy to the SAPs that developed the beam tech, but i am sure there vectoring concerns to be solved.

Either way, i am in no mood to write a book here, so let’s do it the short and easy way and use your own statement as an example. You stated that inertia would make it impossible for a craft to travel that fast (i am assuming that you are implying some hyperdimesional warp engine or zero point energy or something is operating as thrust - a hologram needs no thrust), yet you are missing YOUR OWN POINT entirely. Yes, YOU ARE CORRECT, inertia at those speeds would destroy an occupant or even the mechanics in a nuts and bolts craft.

So you have just proven, by the laws of physics you stated, IT CANNOT BE A “CRAFT”. By your own words...

Yet are you saying that the laws of physics dont apply, and that there is a gravitational/warp field that protects it (denying any practiced physics known) because IT HAS TO BE A CRAFT? ...possibly because you want it to be aliens even through denying fact? I want it to be aliens too, but i cant deny fact.

A beamed object, developed by the military, can do everything that craft did, including giving radar signal, WITHOUT BREAKING ANY LAWS OF PHYSICS.

A craft cant cut right angles
A beamed object can

A craft cant have thrust without a heat signature
A beamed object can

A craft cannot go that fast because of thrust and inertia
A beamed object can

A craft cannot appear and disappear
A beamed object can

A craft cannot perform any of those without violating known laws of physics
A beamed object would violate no known laws performing every observed aspect of the “craft”

I dont know how i can break it down any simpler for you than that. NOTHING regarding the pilots’ own accounts says a “craft” except their own misleading words/projections. Name one characteristic of The tictac that proves it is a “craft or occupied”. There seem to be none. It was visible, gave no heat exhaust, could be picked up as a signal by radar and flir, and moved faster than a plane (not faster than light). It didnt defy physics because it was not a craft.

Clearly it is a beamed object with very low mass (like a hologram or a plasma form). Thats why it can do all it can do , and exactly why it has all those characteristics...without defying physics. that may be the reason they dont want to release the tape...its a radar spoof tech (or something) that could leak out further if more characteristics are observed.

originally posted by: ChayOphan
"It is a perfect prison, seemingly infinite is a great illusion of freedom."
These words will soon prove profoundly relevant to all.

a reply to: watchandwait410

Thanks that is exactly what I was thinking!...

a reply to: Windigoone

I don't know what it was, to be honest, the same boat as the rest of us really.

Plasma might indeed be a possibility, but if it is, that implies the projection of some really strong magnetic fields.

So again the question arises from where and how?

To many unknown factors to make any kind of unequivocal assessment.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Windigoone

I don't know what it was, to be honest, the same boat as the rest of us really.

Plasma might indeed be a possibility, but if it is, that implies the projection of some really strong magnetic fields.

So again the question arises from where and how?

To many unknown factors to make any kind of unequivocal assessment.

Honestly, the physics are there for plasma forms, and other beamed spoofs as well. Short of delving into plasma physics via equations, there are alot of projects out there that were experimental and later went black, way back even to the 1970’s. Plasma balls are a known manifestation of plasma, they can be self-sustaining and create their own magnetic fields, have a visible outer wall, give off light, etc, etc. they can also be modulated (by beam resonance) to change shape.

i should probably save my speculation for later, but there are ways plasma balls can be formed, appear at the end of a proton beam (or other beam)without huge amounts of energy to sustain them once formed without much of a jump from known (open source) plasma physics technology. Unbelievably, one study speculated plasma balls could “cut through through water”. Maybe if i make a thread on it someday (which i probably wont) i’d try to re-find and collate the references and break down physics, etc, which would be a monumental task.

It is sufficient for now, as far as i am concerned, just to introduce a reasonable meme to counter the improbable meme dominating the media (and thus people’s minds)...a counter-meme based on reasonable analysis. I for one am sick of people being misled or manipulated by whichever party, the government or private interests, whether for profit or psy-op or just brought forth from general incompetency...

The issue of UFOs is interesting, and we deserve better than more.disinformation...but leading our analysis via ufo-lore bias wont get us to the goal either. We need to free our minds a little here to get past the military co-opting the narrative completely on a subject that goes much deeper than government...but belongs intimately to the human psyche, imo.

a reply to: Windigoone

If that's the case "they" understand ball lightning and can produce the effects a hell of a lot better than they are letting on.

Scientists have long attempted to produce ball lightning in laboratory experiments.

While some experiments have produced effects that are visually similar to reports of natural ball lightning, it has not yet been determined whether there is any relation.

Speculation is all we have thus far but it is indeed a UFO until someone proves otherwise.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Windigoone

If that's the case "they" understand ball lightning and can produce the effects a hell of a lot better than they are letting on.

Scientists have long attempted to produce ball lightning in laboratory experiments.

While some experiments have produced effects that are visually similar to reports of natural ball lightning, it has not yet been determined whether there is any relation.

Speculation is all we have thus far but it is indeed a UFO until someone proves otherwise.

No they are past that now. Physicists have created “sustained plasma balls” in recent open source experiments. Even the navy released a vid recently (i believe downplaying what they can do, by having it show a small ball). We have to assume, if the military started on this stuff in the 1970s, took it black in the 1980s during President Reagan’s multibillion-dollar “Star Wars” program (aptly named since they were beaming spaceship-looking forms), we can assume they are ahead of open source plasma-form physics by quite a bit. I could speculate they may have fallen into the science of it when they were studying plasma for nuclear reactors as a containment field.

Either way, i solved the tic tac thing for many people right here on your thread, in my humble opinion. The reality of the beam theory has been spreading slowly for awhile now, but people whose lives and hobbies DEPEND on aliens being real just cant get to core rationality on the tictac subject just yet. Especially when it will impact their fundamentals. Nonetheless, i dont want to see anymore victims of these misleading theories (or possibly psy-ops). Americans and the people of the world deserve better than more Bull. And there are real UAP anomalies that deserve sober and intense analysis and research. Tictacs have been debunked.

a reply to: Windigoone

One note: i believe the video the navy wont release would probably again show that TICTACs NEVER HAVE Multicolored blinking lights (although plasma is known under certain conditions to give off red/bue/green/white lights btw - still, so far the tictacs havent been observed blinking). As a way of excluding military tech from ufo research, a UAP with blinking lights of various colors doesnt seem to fit the observables of the military’s tictac tech.

a reply to: Windigoone

It's not my thread mate, just contributing like the rest of us.

And I'm sorry to say but the only solution you have provided is as feeble as the rest.

I don't know if aliens are real or not, just that the universe is, for all intents and purpose infinite, and to assume we are the only intelligent species inhabiting such is sheer arrogance in the extreme.

Either way, there is no unequivocably solution being provided here on ATS nor by any government on the planet as to what or how this TicTac phenomenon was or managed to do the things it appeared to do.

As a former Aerospace Engineer... I’m fairly confident this isn’t American. I’m not saying it’s from another world, but what I do know from my 15+ years with the DoD is they’d NEVER test anything (Black project) near existing/ongoing military operations. Anytime I was doing testing it was at TTR or Edwards AFB. Only 2 times did I visit groom lake and I never left the plane. The Navy was dispatched to break from a roll up to verify these objects. That’s a lot of money and work they have doing their work up for deployment. They didn’t stumble on any US black project. Those are handled FAR FAR away for normal folks. Again... I’m not saying this is alien but it’s not one of ours. I still have several friends who are active DoD and they’ve agreed.

a reply to: andy06shake


None of this stuff we are capable of now let alone in 2004.

You cannot project a hologram 5 feet let alone 80,000 feet or generate any sort of radar return

a reply to: Rancidmilk2go



Not unless Project Blue Beam has come along leaps and bounds anyroad.

It would cause grave damage to the fossil fuel industry and every other finite resource humanity is forced to squable over.

It's all about energy. Always has been. With infinite energy for everyone, there is no need for an economy. No one on top, no one on bottom.

Can't allow that now, can we...

Their is this conceit going on by the deniers that it has to be human because we are so smart we can do anything. Despite any truth at all that we are capable of making and flying a craft anything like it.

So to get around this problem the deniers come up with the idea that it is not a craft at all. They make up the idea that pilots (aka smart humans) who say they are looking at a real craft are completely wrong. They say it is not real, just an image. So they solve many of he problems, while creating new ones.

The deniers are never going to get ahead if they keep thinking ALL these things are man-made.