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Archetypal Truths in the Bible

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posted on Jan, 14 2020 @ 12:45 PM
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Noah is the only man who knows how to survive the flood. His name in Hebrew means "rest". Do not read Noah as if he were a real person, but rather, as an archetypal person who goes through suffering and survives it in the manner - also metaphorical and archetypal - that Noah survives.

Noah has three sons, Shem, Japheth and Ham. The three sons are the consequences of the peacefulness that Noah has found. Noah is the human being who has risen above the turbulence of life. There are only three archetypal consequences that derive from this mystic knowing, and as we know, only one of them is stable.

Japheth means beauty, and as we know, it describes many cultures, specifically the Indo-European ones such as Greece and India. By beauty is meant "appearances". The irony of the Greek and Hindu way of looking at things is that they simultaneously devalue the reality of the external world - as "maya" or as "demiurge" (a mere 'artisan', which in Gnosticism evolves into something far more nefarious) - and live in exaggerated attachment with the external world, which more or less expresses a very profound and disturbing dissociation between what the conscious mind identifies with and what the body is motivated and compelled by. Japheth is unstable.

Next in line is Ham. Ham, of course, is associated with Africa and the Egyptians, and tends to be associated with ritual abuse, trauma, and intense warrior-cultures. Ham, for obvious reasons, is very disturbed and as we know, anally raped his father. This can be read literally or symbolically, and it is true on both accounts: ritual abuse is predicated on sexual abuse - and this is common throughout African secret societies like the Poro society of west Africa, and of course, the beginnings of Egypt leave hallmarks of a trauma-obsessed society that eventually evolves overtime to a virtual worship of death. Ham worships death, and so, lives life in the fast line, overestimating his resources to overcome whatever deficit he is generating by his behavior by assuming that he is 'complete in his self'. For good reason did Crowley name the current "aeon" or period we live in the "aeon of horus". It is stupidity, mindlessly, carelessness, and hubris, all rolled up into one.

The curse of Canaan, furthermore, speaks to the perpetuation of trauma rituals amongst the Phoenecians - who were Canaanites - and the spread of their evil rites throughout the ancient Mediterranean after being booted out of Canaan by the Hebrews. They established strong bases in Sicility, Corsica, Southwest Italy, and North Africa, but not before depositing a little bit of themselves in the cultures of the Grecan world - for instance, in Sparta.

The only truthful or stable way of relating to reality is not to be obsessed with appearances and prestige (Japheth), or obsessed with power and fearsomeness (Ham), but in seeing into the essence of things - to knowing realities nature truthfully, to name things properly. Hence, Shem means "name", and in Hebrew, a common appellation for God is "Hashem" - "The name". Interestingly, Moses is the reverse of the letters which make up this name, implying that Moses is the 'mirror-image' of nature.

The Bible is the book of books for a reason. It's claim to eternality is really a claim about a human nature that cannot be changed. To see it as a compilation of wisdom traditions gathered within the near east is probably right, and its associations with Judaism is merely an accident of history - that is, even though it describes human nature, only a small portion of human cared to maintain this traditional bastion of knowledge.




posted on Jan, 14 2020 @ 01:24 PM
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And yet, the story of Noah an Gilgamesh is all the same...dont piss off Heaven, or God from your POV since you shouldnt believe in Heaven.
edit on 14-1-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)

Not that I really care.
edit on 14-1-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2020 @ 01:24 PM
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I've always seen some characters in the bible as sort of archetypal beings. In the sense, like you stated, isn't a real person but humanity itself. Certain books in the bible make it seem like it is the story of a person but is more likely stories of humanity and their trials and tribulations, successes and downfalls, love and hate, and everything in between. Sadly the bible of today has been butchered by kings and popes. Picking and choosing over the millenia what goes in and what comes out. Usually to fit whatever narrative (usually power and wealth) they want at that time. Kings helped perpetrate one of the biggest scams on mankind for centuries by convincing people (by words or force) that they have the "divine right to rule". And the Catholic Church becoming one of the first institutions to bank and collect interest, taxes and people putting up land or belonging for collateral and then the church robbed them of it. If God exists he would be abhorred at what the church has done in his name over the centuries, and the Pope being the holiest and closest to god....what a crock of s**t!! Look at how many books used to be in the bible and which ones are not there anymore. Even the ones that have stayed somewhat consistent ate usually shorter and edited from their originals.



posted on Jan, 14 2020 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

Is it surprising since it talks about human affairs, has been written by humans, in a human society ?
I created this thread some time ago, which talks about the possibility that the story of adam&eve is actually a metaphor that represents the transition to neolithic.



posted on Jan, 15 2020 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: Astrocyte
As soon as there is a knower (Noah) separate from the known.... there is duality (twoness).

There is no knower and no known...... there is just what is.

One without a second.


edit on 15-1-2020 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2020 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: BerkshireEntity

the Word or Bible is a different type collection of Myth Stories...strung together as a type of Epic Story of many facets... I would not/Don't put any credibility in the Bible being Divine in content...

however the Word, another Aspect of the religion Myth, is a overview account of the Cyclical Catastrophe that hits Earth on a recurring basis and is generated by inspirations gleaned from the Collective Consciousness/Mankinds' Memory or else Augmented by a Paralell Dimension cadre of Advanced/long-lived entities

there have been 4 previous Cyclical Catastrophe' in the evolution of human history (we are in #4 right now) And a Golden Age awaits the remnant of plant/animal/human survivors who escape the Eschatology found in the Myth-Epic (survival manual) called "scriptural" Prophecy
edit on th31157910872315182020 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2020 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: gosseyn
a reply to: Astrocyte
Is it surprising since it talks about human affairs, has been written by humans, in a human society ?
I created this thread some time ago, which talks about the possibility that the story of adam&eve is actually a metaphor that represents the transition to neolithic.

Archetypes are structural models. They are meant as a guide or a prototype to achieve perfection (in a thing). Who determined this; tell me now.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: gosseyn

And humans are emergent from the universe.

What makes you think there aren't dynamical symmetries which control our relational and psychological lives?

Look at your body. Is it structured? Yes? Then what makes you think your mental processes and its dynamical tethering to the cuing of other bodies doesn't also follow a similar structuring?

You aren't detecting the very profound depth that I am speaking from. This isn't a book of stories - has nothing to do with the Neolithic or anything of that kind. When I say that these are eternal truths, I mean it in the same way that muscle structure and bone structure are like ties and struts that are calibrated to the surfaces that humans or any other animal walks upon.

You can't make the body be what it isn't - hence astronauts learn the hard way that the body becomes very sick in inhospitable environments like space. Similarly, human beings expresses states as a function of tensegrities between themselves and other bodies.

This is apparently complex matter which unfortunately rises far above the ken of many people. To me, to say something is 'archetypal' is to say it is repeatable, regular, and law-like. There are archetypal situations for a driver who decides to drive a car with a broken axel; there are archetypal situations for a person who puts a certain type of gasoline in their engines. This is law-like.

Similarly, the archetypal situation of humans who've achieved a state of rest is the genealogy of Noah.

The saddest thing is how utterly unsophisticated people today are - wrongly believing that science or archeology or any other field of modern inquiry can do any better than what the ancients discovered. Or, said differently, humans are so dissociated from the realities that matter - such as suffering and overcoming suffering - that we allow ourselves to be tricked into farcical representations of the bible as having to do with things that they have nothing to do with.

Its not literal, of course, but its allegorical representations aren't arbitrary either. They describe truths that are fundamental to what humans are.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: gosseyn

As for Adam and Eve.

You need to read Hebrew to appreciate the meanings; just as you would need to read Sanskrit or Arabic or any other language that speaks in allegory and encodes meaning through the names that they give their characters.

Adam means literally "I am blood". Eve means "living one". Adam and Eve describe the basic and most fundamental categories of human experience: a perceiving, reflecting self (I...am blood - a self-reflection); and a feeling, living body (living one). Adam and Eve therefore describe one dimension of experience which is embodied, and embodied in such a way as to be ecologically at one with its environment - with food/water, with sensory experience, etc. The life of the body, or the conditions which determine the quality of our living (our feeling), sets the parameters for what the reflective self finds important - hence, Adam refers to something which is already embodied (blood), but with the aleph, or the infinite, embedded within.

The Bible is a book of profound metaphysical and psychological reflection. It's a systematized representation of the dimensions of the human self which, if it were properly understood, may not be surpassed in its accuracy of how we work.

And why would that be such a problem? At its core, the Bible is a collection of stories which derive from the cradle of human civilization - the Near East. Its metaphysics touches on both mystical, and psychosocial phenomena.

Its difficult to understand the difference between a perspective that sees nature as fundamentally one, and which see's our mental processes as emergent from natures dynamics, and which recognizes the continuity and unity between the one and the other (meaning sense perception and executive cognition are continuous processes) and the contemporary parody which caricaturizes the bible in the manner that we have all long been conditioned with, in academia, in media, and elsewhere, of a perception of the Bible which represents it literally, or if allegory is admitted, its never of an archetypal psychological or metaphysical type, but of something far less significant and profound.

If one didn't know better, it would seem as if some of this is deliberate.

edit on 17-1-2020 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte




You aren't detecting the very profound depth that I am speaking from. This is apparently complex matter which unfortunately rises far above the ken of many people.

I am sorry to be such a lowly moron who is unable to grasp the deep truths that you enounce, but I will try my best to look at least half as enlightened as you in my response.



The saddest thing is how utterly unsophisticated people today are - wrongly believing that science or archeology or any other field of modern inquiry can do any better than what the ancients discovered.

The Bible ... if it were properly understood, may not be surpassed in its accuracy of how we work.

There are so many assumptions in what you say. But let's first start with the obvious. You are basically saying that nothing of value has been said regarding human nature since the bible ? And not only that, but you also seem to say that nothing new can ever be expressed because everything that could be expressed is already contained within the bible ? If that is not the most glaring example of what a preconceived idea is, I don't know what is.

The bible, which you claim is perfect, is for me just a map, which means it is just something that points to something else, and you seem to be mistaking the map for the territory. I know there are some bits of philosophical truth that are understandable at the human level here and there in many of the ancient traditions, and why wouldn't it be ? That is what I wanted to say with my first message on this thread, that we are all humans and as such we share a staggering number of characteristics, and that it is not surprising that some humans could find the experiences of some other humans very similar to theirs, if not identical. I could for example give a very large map of my city to a bunch of kids, and I would tell them to draw anything they want anywhere they want on the map, and I am sure at some point some of the things they draw wouldn't be very far from the truth of the territory. Not only that, but there is also the problem of interpretation. If for example a kid has drawn a dragon somewhere on the map, and I go there and I find there is tree there, I might think "well, this tree is obviously not a dragon, but just a tree", but then I walk around the tree and realise that from this angle, some of the branches seem to look like... wings maybe, and this torn branch here could be the ... head of the dragon, etc.. What if I don't realise that I am also part of the experiment, and that the experiment wasn't about what the kids would draw but it was more about how I would receive the information, my willingness to find in the territory what the kids draw on the map ?

How can you evolve if for you the best map ever drawn is a 2000 or 4000 years old map ? How can you change, how is it possible for you to change your perspective ? Or is it a question of comfort and/or mental laziness ? You say it yourself, the bible is a collection of stories, so how could a simple collection of stories be so unique in the history of mankind, so complete and perfect that it doesn't need any addition, any correction ? It's mind boggling, isn't it. Unless you believe there is some divine inspiration to it ? In which case, the varnish of scientificity with which you usually coat what you say on this thread and on others is seriously too thin. Because if your answer is to say "got did it, that's why it's perfect", it's not really an answer, because that's just the end of the discussion.

And I have to say, I have read many of your threads over the last years and I think you don't care if you're being understood or not. I don't think you really care about clarity and communication. I think you care more about the words that you use and what you think they represent. Your threads rarely spark a debate, because people don't understand what you mean, and I suspect they even feel like I do, which is that you don't care about being understood. You cling to words way too much, and it is obvious when you say something like :

You need to read Hebrew to appreciate the meanings; just as you would need to read Sanskrit or Arabic or any other language that speaks in allegory and encodes meaning through the names that they give their characters.

Which means that for you, words contain their own meanings, that they are no more partial maps that point to portions of the territory, but that they just point to themselves. Words about words about words about words, maps that just point to maps, etc.. Something that in General Semantics is called "self-reflexive language", which means that we could spend a whole life talking about words while never talking about the reality that the words are supposed to represent.

All that being said, I am not your enemy, and I am sure there is some common ground we can find. And if you haven't had an overdose of the map-territory metaphor yet, I have more in stock.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte



The Bible is a book of profound metaphysical and psychological reflection. It's a systematized representation of the dimensions of the human self which, if it were properly understood, may not be surpassed in its accuracy of how we work.


Yeah but clearly snakes don't talk, nor eating apples sinful, so we can assume that symbolics are in play throughout the OT.

We already know that Adam was made in the image of God so he must represent our spiritual nature. Eve (Chawah) means to breath, so she must represent our human nature. The snake that talks to our human nature (eve) telling us that we deserve this and that, must be our ego brain. The tree with fruits that we taste is sensory., So the tree must represent our spine and nervous system.

We have been told we can eat anything from the tree except the apple. A warning fhat it's our lust for sensory joy that keeps us from being one with God. Which if we look further into it means the very act of receiving sensory joy, uses energy, that would otherwise fill our vessel with light.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:04 PM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Astrocyte
We have been told we can eat anything from the tree except the apple. A warning that it's our lust for sensory joy that keeps us from being one with God. Which if we look further into it means the very act of receiving sensory joy, uses energy, that would otherwise fill our vessel with light.

The apple, there used to be 15,000 separate varieties of that specie fruit (why pick on that one as being forbidden knowledge). Experiencing an orgasm (most encouraged) is our energetic connection with the Creator.



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

I can only guess than it was one of the better known "sweet" fruits of the time. I too use to think apple signlifies sex but latter realized that it includes all types of sensory joy. Beware the ice-cream men.



kabbalah...
Malchut (sephirot gate or chakra) herself is the will to receive pleasure. The ban imposed on the reception of pleasure for oneself is called the First Restriction (Tzimtzum Aleph). Restriction is a ban on the reception of pleasure; however, if the receiver aspires to please the Creator and not himself, he is allowed to receive the pleasure. Whether Malchut wants it or not, if she (soul, man) has egoistic desires, the Light will not enter her (be felt within her). Hence, we are utterly unable to feel the spiritual (the Creator).



posted on Jan, 17 2020 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I can only guess than it was one of the better known "sweet" fruits of the time. I too use to think apple signlifies sex but latter realized that it includes all types of sensory joy. Beware the ice-cream men.



kabbalah...
Malchut (sephirot gate or chakra) herself is the will to receive pleasure. The ban imposed on the reception of pleasure for oneself is called the First Restriction (Tzimtzum Aleph). Restriction is a ban on the reception of pleasure; however, if the receiver aspires to please the Creator and not himself, he is allowed to receive the pleasure. Whether Malchut wants it or not, if she (soul, man) has egoistic desires, the Light will not enter her (be felt within her). Hence, we are utterly unable to feel the spiritual (the Creator).

Orgasm=Pleasure/Joy/Ecstasy/Love experienced (BECAUSE) you just shared an energy exchange with your God/Creator. Sure; try to ban that very personal conversation.
edit on 17-1-2020 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 12:51 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

That's why I chose buddhism. The middle way doesn't go to extreme's of this or that, which is just another form of punishment, in itself. Some buddhist have argued that If orgasm is an "indirect" result of the sharing of love between two people then its perfectly alright. (aka non-eogtistical pleasure)

added...

Not denying our human nature but allowing our spirtual nature to enter our human nature and vice versa. something akin to what Jesus said in Gospal of Thomas....



Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

edit on 18-1-2020 by glend because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 01:34 AM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: vethumanbeing

That's why I chose buddhism. The middle way doesn't go to extreme's of this or that, which is just another form of punishment, in itself. Some buddhist have argued that If orgasm is an "indirect" result of the sharing of love between two people then its perfectly alright. (aka non-eogtistical pleasure) added...
Not denying our human nature but allowing our spirtual nature to enter our human nature and vice versa. something akin to what Jesus said in Gospal of Thomas....

Why did you choose a belief system and when did you need to do so? I never considered doing such a thing because I knew a truth 'obscene' to me and only me; designed specifically in order that I understand the relationship between myself and my creator.

glend:
Jesus said to them, "When you mak'e the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Well, that is profound, this being the description of an action of matter and energy expressed as having a sexual encounter to create the potential for animated form. I am enthralled. You know the 'Kingdom' IS within you as is your own creation. Whatever you desire; it can be hell or heaven or a pit of vipers (for that moment until you realize you are in charge of your ETERNITY and can change it).
edit on 18-1-2020 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

Buddhism isn't about planting, more so, uprooting beliefs. So how did you realise truth?



You know the 'Kingdom' IS within you as is your own creation


Yes.



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

The 'inner' and 'outer' are not (they have been made one)....so how can the kingdom be within??

No in or out....just what is. A foot is a foot....a hand is a hand....an image is an image.

Adi Da said he was going to write a book called 'The Myth of Within'.....in this talk:


Thought assumes that there is a you inside, separate from the outside....but when those assumed two are found to be one, only then will the kingdom be revealed 😁

Non duality ......one without a second.
edit on 18-1-2020 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: glend
Snakes don't talk but they have forked tongues......
Language is divisive.

The one (without a second) cannot be spoken.



posted on Jan, 18 2020 @ 12:57 PM
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Should we call God, God even though he got outsmarted by spineless, lowly when, pea brain of a snake in a grass, even though snakes have plenty of backbone.

Or does he play 13 dimensional chest for a reasonable explanation that is supposed to be beyond wisdom apparently.
edit on 18-1-2020 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)



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