Sin for a lifetime and repent before I die. Heaven or Hell here I come?

To those it may concern.

I offer my sincere apologies for my words on this thread, even if those were my opinions I should have kept my mouth shut and just avioded the thread.

I do try and take the approach that if I have nothing productive to say then not to say anything at all. Unfortunately, and to my embarrassment, my anger got the better of me.

Oops and Lady V, I offer my genuine apologies. I behaved like an impolite and arrogant fool.

Jack

Don't worry about...like they say, one thread leads to another haha

Watch out for that ATS dope, it get's the best of ya...

Originally posted by JAK

Oops and Lady V, I offer my genuine apologies. I behaved like an impolite and arrogant fool.

Ya know.....I think we all act badly at times...and trust me, yours wasn't all that bad. There is no harm done...we were debating, you did not call me any names......it was just back and forth heat...LOL
:::::: offers hand out for a shake::::::


[edit on 3/9/2005 by LadyV]

Originally posted by The Vagabond

One can not plan to suddenly say the magic words at any certain time. The bible says that you must be called by God. Pentecostals seem to take this very very literally- pentecostals (if I understand correctly) believe that you must be touched by the Holy Spirit and accept it, evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Pentecostal here...

yes, we beleive you should be "filled with the Holy Spirit" and speak in tongues, however, not receiving the Holy Spirit and not speaking in Tongues will not keep you out of heaven.

The Holy Spirit is a comfortor / a gift .... as is speaking in tongues...


At least, that's my understanding...


I beleive that I received the Holy Spirit early in my life, however I have never spoken in Tongues...

also, I was taught that there are different "rewards" in heaven...

So, I might live my life as a Christian, go to church, do good deeds, etc...
I would have a great reward in heaven,

now, comes someone, who beleives in God, didn't go to chuch much, drinks maybe didn't treat people as they should have, etc.... on thier death bed, they repent, thier sins might be forgiven, they'll go to heaven, but what happens to them there will not be that as the "good Christain" receives..

does that make sense ?




[edit on 9-3-2005 by elevatedone]

Can you live a bad life and still get into heaven? Yes! but how is this possible you ask? Remember that the view of Christianity is that your entrance to Heaven is paid for by Jesus' death, so it really doesn't matter how long you live as a "sinner", but that you eventually came to believe and accept that Jesus is who he said he is. The thief on the cross beside Jesus is the perfect "death-bed conversion" story.

Jesus knew that this would cause some contention among his followers, so He even took the time to tell us a story about accepting these people. The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard is a story designed to teach us this very lesson about the "kingdom of Heaven". The workers whine about the people who were hired last being paid the same, and the vineyard owner tells them "Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?". Very good point. It's not as if someone else's reward will lessen yours.

I do believe that those who worked long and hard will receive a greater reward, but the ultimate reward is free to everyone.

Good words skippy

I must follow up with 1 of my favorite quotes tho...

Those who are waiting until the 11th hour to turn to Christ.....usually end up dying @ 10:45

there are two outcomes of this and they are, of course heaven and hell. ill tell you how to get into heaven this way and how to get into hell this way.
heaven- you could ask for forgiveness as you die, but, of course you have to mean it. once you realize "hey, im gonna go to hell!", you ask God for forgiveness out of mostly fear and regret.

hell- if you go through your whole life sinning and just blowing off the consequences saying to yourself "ill just ask for forgiveness before i die", then that itself is a sin. its actually two of the seven deadly sins. its sloth and, the ultimate sin, turning away from God. your whole life you are ignoring God and your laziness is not bothering to talk to God. so if you plan to ask for forgiveness before you die, thinking youll get into heaven, then no. not unless you end up asking out of fear and regret.

The two easiest answers to any theological question:

1. God is love.
2. It's a Mystery.

Originally posted by paperclip
The true repentance would be realising that what you did was wrong and by doing that accept the punishment for it, accept hell.
That would be a selfless act, true repentance for your evil deeds. In that case, God would probably forgive you.

I think the operative word in this is "repent." God does not see any difference between sin. Sin is sin is sin. Christ died for all sin.

Originally posted by 00PS
Can it actually work. Can I sin for a lifetime and on my dying deathbed sincerely ask for forgiveness from Christ and be saved believing he is my saviour? Will I go to heaven?

The figure is 75-80% of the people who accept Christ do so before the age of 18. After that, the older you get the less likely you will accept Christ. Children believe and accept things easier than adults. As adults we tend to rely on ourself and our strengths.

Can a person accept Christ on their deathbed, yes. But after sinning for 70-80 years and living on your own without God the chances that you will turn to Christ are unlikely. Accepting Christ is a CHOICE, after sinning for years you become set in your ways, and probably will not choose Christ. Everytime you hear the message of salvation and reject it, your conscience becomes a little bit more hardened. Everytime after that it becomes harder and harder to truly believe.

And no matter what age you are when you accept Christ it's an act of faith in Christ alone. Some people think they can fool God, but God knows everything, even your deepest thoughts, and if you meant your acceptance of Christ you are saved, if you didn't mean it then you are not saved.

Once again deathbed confessions can be guenuine but they can also be false.

To sum up, can a person be saved at the time of death, yes. And for all who think this isn't fair and that people are getting away with something. First of all God cannot be fooled, if that person didn't mean it God knows. No one will bluff their way to heaven. If someone did sin for even 90 years and then truly accept Christ, we are to be happy that they will not endure hell for all eternity.

Originally posted by elevatedone


Pentecostal here...

yes, we beleive you should be "filled with the Holy Spirit" and speak in tongues, however, not receiving the Holy Spirit and not speaking in Tongues will not keep you out of heaven.

The Holy Spirit is a comfortor / a gift ....

The Holy Spirit enters a person after they accept Christ. You don't receive the Holy Spirit unless you have guenuinely accepted Christ. When the Holy Spirit enters a person to dwell in them, they receive all of the Holy spirit. Then it's not how much of the Spirit you have, but how much of you the Sprirt has.

At this present age it's not possible to truly accept Christ and not receive the Holy Spirit. That is the point of Christ coming, to forgive sins and then people become the temples of God.

Thing that is confusing is someone said "by your works you shall be judged". now it does say this in some of the New Testament and i think is says by faith also with those works, but if you read Pauls epitiles in the New Testament he says that your works do not matter and do not mean anything to God, only your faith matters. If I am wrong on this or interpreted it wrong, please let me know. But if i am not wrong it is confusing, as Paul seems to be saying one thing and non - Paul writings seem to be saying another thing...
Also the original question was could someone kill, rape, etc., all their life and then repent on their death bed and all is forgiven? Well, if someone is doing that their "whole" life, I doubt that their heart would be repenting out of actually be sorry for what they did and would be more about them repenting because they know they are going to die and are afraid now...are they really thinking about all the pain and sorry they caused their victims? It's more likely that they are afraid because they are dying...

Originally posted by humbled_one
Thing that is confusing is someone said "by your works you shall be judged". now it does say this in some of the New Testament and i think is says by faith also with those works, but if you read Pauls epitiles in the New Testament he says that your works do not matter and do not mean anything to God, only your faith matters.

Let's say someone accepts Christ and it's a true confession of faith in Christ alone. Before this happens the Holy Spirit was at work in the life of that person(from the outside and through the circumstances of human existance). That person has come to the point of being convicted that they have sinned against a Holy and Just God. At the moment that that person accepts Christ by faith, sins past, present and future are forgiven, and the Holy Spirit then literally indwells that person and takes up residence in that person. That person's spirit is then brought back to life(born again). We then see sin in a different way, as an offense to God. That person has become a temple of the Living God.

that person's sins have been forgiven through Christ's work and they are now a child of God and will never face eternal seperation from God.

That person is now a new creation in Christ. That person now is on a lifelong journey to know God more and more. Sin is to gradually become a thing of the past. Day in and day out that person surrenders to the direction of the Holy Spirit and sin loses it's grip over that person. New godly habits replace the old sinful habits. And God will lead that person into work for him/her to do on behalf of God in serving and reaching others. When that person stumbles and committs sin they should acknowledge it and asks for forgiveness, Why? God already knew that you would stumble and committ that sin, so in seeking forgiveness that person is acknowledging the sin and learning that it was sin and growing and changing.

Now what sets the pace of the growth in Christ. Our attitude and desire to surrender up those sins(some sins entangle us more than others and may take longer to overcome). Prayer ialso ncreases the speed and quantity of growth. So does Bible reading and attending Church and serving on board positions within a church. Serving others(placing them ahead of you).

Now God will speak to that person's spirit and lead them in what He desires for them to do while on earth. These ways of serving are not to be saved but they come about because of salvation. And reward for service done can come about in this life but doesn't have to. But reward and responsibilities will be given in heaven for service of a pure motive. These rewards won't be like a paycheck that gets used up and is gone, these rewards will last for all eternity.

Knowing God and loving Him are primary and then service flows from that.

Can someone resist the prompting of the Holy Spirit, yes and loss of reward can occur. I was saved at age 8 but didn't live like it until Iwas 28. But looking back I can now see God working during those times also.

DBRANDT, You say "loss of reward" at the end of your post...

Now i know a lot of people say things like "rewards" or "punishment", but what you are saying is the same as blackmail. Do people really believe God is blackmailing us and saying love me and you'll get a reward and if you don't then you will not get a reward? What you are doing in that case is loving God out of fear only, so is that really love? If a person is to really love God, then they should be doing so because they want to love him for the sake of love, not for the sake of getting a "reward"....


[edit on 7-6-2005 by humbled_one]

Originally posted by 00PS
It seems odd to me. Can it actually work. Can I sin for a lifetime and on my dying deathbed sincerely ask for forgiveness from Christ and be saved believing he is my saviour? Will I go to heaven?

Is this a protestant view, do catholics believe this too? What about Mormons ...I guess this doesn't pertain to Jews does it?

I don't know about this. Can you please 'skewl' me?

It seems that those who PLAN on turning to God at the 11th hour, end up kicking the bucket at 10:45. (echo)

and then I also wonder how wide a brush this passage paints with

2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


[edit on 7-6-2005 by jake1997]

Originally posted by humbled_one
DBRANDT, You say "loss of reward" at the end of your post...

Now i know a lot of people say things like "rewards" or "punishment",
[edit on 7-6-2005 by humbled_one]

First of all you said punishment I didn't.

Now look at 1 Corinthians chapter 3. The whole chapter should be read but I will post verses 9-15

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master- builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Here is where you are condemning what I said

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved: yet so as by fire.

Gold, silver and precious stones are purified by fire and come through the fire. Wood, hay and stubble are burned up by fire. What are those 6 things symbolic for, a christians works and service. Verse 15 confirms that works has nothing to do with salvation.

The works we do are judged for reward. If we do works whose motives are NOT pure and right and true they are like wood, hay and stubble, and are destroyed, but if they are done for the correct reasons they will abide like gold, silver and precious stones and we will be rewarded.

Revelation 1:14 (talking about Jesus)His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were like a flame of FIRE;

When we stand before Jesus we will look into His eyes and know what we have done that has been for the right reasons and His eyes like a flame of fire will reveal to us what we did that was not for the right reasons. Wrong motives, wrong desires, to make us the center of attention, and missed opportunities to serve, etc. will result in loss of reward.

edit added- Any Works done to earn, to any degree, the whole or even .001% of your salvation are worthless and a loss.

2nd edit-failure to heed to the promptings of the Holy Spirit can also bring loss of reward.



[edit on 7-6-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 7-6-2005 by dbrandt]

DBRANDT, iwas not "condeming" what you said, i was questioning, sorry for that confusion. I see more what you mean by "reward". I was thinking you were talking more like a lot of people who only try to live "right" and say they "love" God only because they are afraid and/or they expect a "reward"...

Originally posted by darkelf
I think the operative word in this is "repent." God does not see any difference between sin. Sin is sin is sin. Christ died for all sin.

Actually there are 2 kinds of sin. A mortal sin and a venial(hope Im spelling it right) sin. A mortal sin is a sin that you know you are committing a sin and you do it anyway. A venial sin is when you dont know your committing a sin. Forgive them Father they know not what they do

Now back to repentance

Gods forgiving power is limitless. If your truely sorry He'll forgive you. Confession yay. But doing bad things and thinking you can just go to confession after each time, then God wont forgive you because your not really sorry if you keep doing it. Same with the death bed thing. As has been said b4

Originally posted by humbled_one
I was thinking you were talking more like a lot of people who only try to live "right"

I believe that's what most people think if they do more good than bad the will enter heaven. But one sin causes the seperation from God and we are born with sin in us and that sin /sin nature must be atoned for.

Sin....
St. Paul does not say anywhere that the whole human race has been accounted guilty of the sin of Adam and is therefore punished by God with death.
Death is an evil force which made its way into the world through sin,
lodged itself in the world,
and, in the person of Satan,
is reigning both in man and creation.
For this reason,
although man can know the good through the law written in his heart and may wish to do what is good,
he cannot because of the sin which is dwelling in his flesh.
Therefore,
it is not he who does the evil,
but sin that dwelleth in him.
Because of this sin,
he cannot find the means to do good. He must be saved from "the body of this death."
[210]............ Rom. 7:13-25
Only then can he do good. What can Paul mean by such statements?
A proper answer is to be found only when St. Paul's doctrine of human destiny is taken into account.....
Man does not die because he is guilty for the sin of Adam.[218]
He becomes a sinner because he is yoked to the power of the devil through death and its consequences.[219]........death came as a result of the exodus of the garden of Eden.....which resulted in the changes in the earth.....all animals and nature changed with the transgession of the Law ......the First commandment of God ....Adam being the first man......created by GOD
Eve being the first woman created by God......
Christ being called the Second ADAM.......came to take away the sin of man
Theotokos(Virgin Mary) as a second Eve........Virgin gave Birth to God the LOGOS(WORD).....


St. Paul clearly says that "the sting of death is sin,"[220]..I Cor. 15:56
.... that "sin reigned in death,"[221].......Rom. 5:21
........ and that death is "the last enemy that shall be destroyed."[222] ....... I Cor. 15:26....which Christ accomplished on the CROSS....

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