What does an Iranian radar operator actually see?

I've seen a lot of different claims and counter claims about the shooting of flight PS752 over Iran this month.

So far, the narrative that seems to be winning is that this was an accident. That an Iranian battery mistook flight PS752 for an attacking American aircraft. The evidence says that Iran probably shot it down, and the Iranians are even admitting to it. Which I never expected. So it's likely a done deal. Iran did it.

This leaves me with one question: Obviously this is a tragedy for those in involved and their families, but was an easy mistake to make at a time of high tension, or is it a rookie mistake that the greenest cadets shouldn't make.

I'm obviously not a trained radar operator, and I know only as much about Iranian air defense batteries as the news has told me. So I don't know what the Iranians would actually have seen. Are we talking a tiny dot on a background filled with almost identical tiny dots like you would see on a movie from the 1960s that requires a lot of skill to determine what is an aircraft and what isn't, Example Image

Or are we talking something out of a star trek where everything is color coded and clearly labeled Example Image, and you'd have to be extremely trigger happy, or extremely incompetent not to realize that PS752 was a civilian jet?

I seem to remember that some civilian aircraft have transponders on them that identify them as civilian jets, did PS752 have one, would the Iranians have checked?

I formally need to apologize for the intoxicated operator reply ...you know...on the other thread, so sorry

I'm curious about this subject....I worked on avionics of FB 111F weapons systems and attack radar....that's what we did at midnight on Mtn Home AFB at night...sit in the right side and turn the master switch on....he he ....and turn on the attack radar and paint the mountains from the tarmac ramp.

4 decades ago on jobsite around the world the cry was heard...we can't find any good help anymore these days....
And so it goes on today moreso....we need to change this model...hard to change the paradigm6, they just keep coming

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Based on their targeting ability I'd say this:

Lordy dats funny....

I dont care what, dats funny....the pretty colors man.....

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Also to add...this falling away from the era when competency was at a higher baseline.......is the problem. Biblical.

Am I wrong?

The US learned from previous accidents and grounded everything after 9/11. Iranians should have learned from US protocols so the only thing that makes sense is they either wanted the element of surprise and not tip off the US or, they wanted to use civilian airliners as shields to make the US do a double take. Either way, they wanted civilian airliners in the air for a specific reason.

Not a bad strategy dealing with a superior force but have to have experience and discipline to pull it off which they do not. Maybe one system was set on auto or maybe the system operator panicked or wanted to be a hero. Probably never know but willing to bet they ground airliners if there is a next time.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

I wonder if there was initial talks of grounding flights given the volley they set off.

That SAM platform may have been operating independently and not tied to a broader radar platform maybe?

Either way, this is a Zaphod question.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

There probably was a discussion but it wasn't regarding civilian safety that's for damn sure. If you look at Iranian tactics and their little bastard forces like Hezbollah they love using civilians as shields. Hospitals, kids really doesn't matter just as long as it makes the enemy look bad in the press.

The airliners were absolutely a part of their strategy but what they don't know is that even with well trained units and good equipment, what looks great on paper backfires 30% of the time. Add to that creating moving human shields in the sky. Their odds of pulling this off had a high probability of failure.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: CriticalStinker

There probably was a discussion but it wasn't regarding civilian safety that's for damn sure. If you look at Iranian tactics and their little bastard forces like Hezbollah they love using civilians as shields. Hospitals, kids really doesn't matter just as long as it makes the enemy look bad in the press.

Wow, their tactics are almost as bad as the Israelis are with the Palestinians. This is exactly why I think the Middle East is a big waste of time, money, and blood. Arabs have been killing Arabs for thousands of years. It must be something in the desert environment that makes people want to kill each other.

Here's my prediction. It's the same one I made back in 2002. No matter how many bombs we drop in the Middle East it's going to be a cluster eff of humanity. One giant Shiite hole of death. It's now 2020 and absolutely NOTHING has changed. Arabs are still killing Arabs.

This is what you get with a blood for blood mentality. An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. If only some great religious Messiah came along with a message of "love thy enemy" that people would actually respect. Someone who is like the Mahatma Gandhi of the Arab World. I'm not holding my breath. I predict Arabs will continue killing each other.

JOHNSON.....yes sir!....what is that on your screen....

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: AaarghZombies

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Based on the Tor radar screens, they see a dot on the scope, and if it's broadcasting Mode 1 or 2, the appropriate codes next to the dot. It's most likely similar to what ATC sees, only with military codes instead of civilian.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: AaarghZombies

Based on their targeting ability I'd say this:

I'd have to disagree, you can actually identify the targets in that snippet

Let's be serious though, these kind of events aren't Iranian specific, other country's have made this error before, as has been pointed out numerous times on ATS, it was an error in judgement that unfortunately cost a lost of innocent lives, but this happens in times of war and conflict.

And let's not forget how all this mess started, it was through the questionable acts of yet another US administration intent on applying as much of their power and influence across the globe as possible through any and all means, no matter how nefarious

Well it would be slow moving and away from the city, so who knows. Funny how it would show the compete reverse of a missile as in starting from the city and moving up and away from their airspaces.

Here is the system that shot it down.

a reply to: Xtrozero

That wouldn't stop a jumpy operator from making a mistake. Especially if they don't have a lot of training.

How do you say blip in Farsi ?

But seriously the main thing that has surprised me so far. Is that Iran isn’t using the Putin playbook .

They are taking the lumps .

It wasn’t Iran it was the US/Israeli’s

The US/ Israel fabricated the incident .

Abdul in Kuwait said the plane never took off

A Israel/US plane shot it down we have satellite images

A old missile shot it down we don’t have any

Wait a new theory that US/Israeli destroyed it with a 25 mm cannon .

They were a bunch more excuses but I think I’ve made my point .


I hate to.

But I’ve got to give them a hat tip for being honest .

a reply to: AaarghZombies

It should be based on a Friend or Foe based on aircraft silhouettes

Civilian aircraft are normally programmed in all military radar software as Friend.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Radar doesn't show silhouettes.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Correct. BUT Military systems have a programmed Friend or Foe system which assists in identification of the aircraft.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Zaphod58

Correct. BUT Military systems have a programmed Friend or Foe system which assists in identification of the aircraft.

And all civilian aircraft give a Friend signal.

Civilian aircraft do not look like military aircraft for this very reason.

Iran intentionally shot that civilian plane down.