we are all going to die

a reply to: cooperton

The most horrible nightmare, all your wishes come true before you can have a second thought...

Since we're speaking from a biblical premise I guess it's appropriate to address things from scripture. Won't get into Revelations, never thought that would be a good idea since no-one knows exactly how much of it is metaphorical or literal. Plus, it makes it pretty clear not not add nor subtract anything from it.

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” [Rev. 22:18–19]

Anyway, to the only real statement that needs addressing -

, because if "sin" is a universal crime we're all #ed. Every adult would be up for grabs for "demons", just the children would make sense, right?

That's correct. And it was for that reason Jesus Christ (God) took that on himself,to pay that price for us. The death and resurrection was exactly for that reason. His own people proved time and time again over countless generations that they could not be sanctified before God without sin regardless of how many times he tried through prophets, priests, kings etc. I'm sure the OP is already aware of this, but hates it and may have no actual interest in that part whatsoever, but it's the entire reason the bible exists in the first place.

This one scripture pretty much sums up the requirement in order to not suffer that eternal spiritual death. And it actually equates to an ability to have a direct relationship to God in doing so. (No more requirement to speak to God through a medium such as a priest, no more animal sacrifices etc.)

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ... for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.[Romans 10:9]

But I'm sure that's not the point of this thread. It's usually the big elephant in the room that gets mocked, dis-regarded etc etc.

a reply to: Wookiep

I do have a very intimate relationship with God. I don't believe the deification of a man is anything else than blasphemy.
To worship Jesus is basically the Golden Calf on steroids. The second fall of man.

I mean it depends how one wants to look at it, right? Like with the first one in paradise one could say it was when humans left the nest and there might be good things that came from it, like we matured, since God doesn't make mistakes one has to assume that's why it happened. We gained our "independent consciousness" if you will. Language, culture, sex,...

And interestingly there came good things from Christianity in the beginning, self-confidence for slaves, the hope for a better life and so on.
Later it set us on the path for science and it opened the doors for doubt, the age of enlightemnent wouldn't have been possible without Christianity and Islam.

But now it's starting to come full circle* and as the goal of revelation is to unite us with the consciousness of God.... well sorry but Jesus is in the way, not the way.

*I mean that actually really scientifically and philosophical the proof of God, the source, the force that connects everything, might be just a "happy accident" away.

a reply to: Peeple

I'm willing to very much agree to disagree. It's fine if you don't believe in the bible. But you might not want to use it as a source for your beliefs if you want to think of Christ as "the deification of man". THAT is the very essence of what blasphemy is, from a biblical standpoint. Too many people cherry-pick the bible to believe whatever they deem comfortable to believe. That's not how it works.

To another point though I thought interesting and can be in at least some form of agreement with is this -

God doesn't make mistakes one has to assume that's why it happened. We gained our "independent consciousness" if you will. Language, culture, sex,...

I agree, he doesn't make mistakes, that's why everything from Adam to Christ to now happened exactly how and when it happened, and is happening. I am of the strong belief that Adam and eve were the first human beings who gained "independent consciousness" (Not the first literal man and woman, IMO as there is scriptural proof that other humans were around when Cain killed Able for example).

From then on, baby steps. "Sin" wasn't even known as a thing to man when Cain killed Able, which is why God handled that way differently in Genesis than he would have in later books. It's been a process, and we're still going through it.

a reply to: Wookiep

I'm using all kinds of sources to shape my ontology and I don't consider any single one of them "the truth", you'll have to deal with that, because nothing is too holy to forbid independent thoughts.
Did you not ever wonder why there are three versions of the first commandment? It's the most important one wouldn't you agree?

"I am the Lord thy God"
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"

So who's cherrypicking?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: cooperton

The most horrible nightmare, all your wishes come true before you can have a second thought...

A dream (or nightmare) run wild. Best to clean out the closet before that moment comes

The prepared people will be blessed

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Wookiep

I'm using all kinds of sources to shape my ontology and I don't consider any single one of them "the truth", you'll have to deal with that, because nothing is too holy to forbid independent thoughts.
Did you not ever wonder why there are three versions of the first commandment? It's the most important one wouldn't you agree?

"I am the Lord thy God"
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"

So who's cherrypicking?

Well, I would answer that, but you're far to angry with whatever it is you believe. Go ahead and mix whatever you want to form whatever satisfies you. I figured I would inject my perspective from the bible on this public forum. Apparently it pisses you off to much. Perhaps you can scrape together some belief to "deal with that". Thankfully, I don't have to "Deal with it" because thank God above I'll never have to "deal with you" in real life. Lol, have fun.

a reply to: Wookiep

What? I am angry? You try to tell me I'm not allowed to use the bible as source and when I tell you I do as I please that's angry?
Mh-kay.

To me it seems you can't handle the discussion that's why you try to make it personal.
If you can answer do it. I swear I'm amused not angry at all.

a reply to: Peeple

The answer is simple, from the Hebrew translation-

#1.(Statement, ten sayings in Hebrew, corresponds with all "sayings" or "commands" as we know it.) "I am the Lord your God, who has brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

#2 (Statement or command derived from the first) "You shall have no other gods beside Me. You shall not make for yourself any carved idol, or any likeness of any thing... you shall not bow down to them, nor serve them..."

#3 (Derived from the 1st) "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain..."

Etc etc etc.

Haaretz - The Ten Commandments

a reply to: Wookiep

But that wasn't the question. I know the Ten commandments.
My question was why there are 3 different versions of the First.

a reply to: Peeple

There aren't 3 different versions of the first, I just showed that. The first is a statement, the second reinforces the statement. "You shall not make for yourself any carved idol, or any likeness of any thing... you shall not bow down to them, nor serve them..."

What's so difficult about that? Is it the word "Commandments" that gets you? That's English translation of "sayings". Hence what God said to Moses to write on the tablets. As the story goes, the Israelites were worshiping a golden calf that Aaron created for them cause they were unruly, this is obviously highly offensive to God.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Peeple

There aren't 3 different versions of the first, I just showed that. The first is a statement, the second reinforces the statement. "You shall not make for yourself any carved idol, or any likeness of any thing... you shall not bow down to them, nor serve them..."

What's so difficult about that? Is it the word "Commandments" that gets you? That's English translation of "sayings". Hence what God said to Moses to write on the tablets. As the story goes, the Israelites were worshiping a golden calf that Aaron created for them cause the were unruly, this is obviously highly offensive to God.

ANd moses face.. all shiny with Shekinah glory turned sparkly red with anger and he smashed those tablets touched by the finger of God into bits. Teeny bits so it couldnt be glued back together.. they probably used camel poop and spit or something back in the olden days. Who says Xtians dont have a temper? Moses was then doubly pissed off he had to climb back up that stinking mountain and explain to God why he was breaking stuff down below.

I can go on wiht the biblical history lesson if you want..

a reply to: Advantage

When did I say Christians don't have a temper? Anyway, the Israelites in Moses' time weren't "Christians" anyway.

P.S. Be my guest?

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Advantage

When did I say Christians don't have a temper? Anyway, the Israelites in Moses' time weren't "Christians" anyway.

P.S. Be my guest?

Would you shush?? Okay.. proto xtians. Hebrewish fore-xtians.

I was goofing off. The sheep is getting upset.

a reply to: Wookiep

You seem angry?
Haha just a minor mishap on my end. Drunk and having fun, English is not my first language, so I had to go back to see what I was talking about...sorry
They're the first two.
And we talked about the deification of Jesus and I guess originally I wanted to say these clearly advice against that.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Wookiep

But that wasn't the question. I know the Ten commandments.
My question was why there are 3 different versions of the First.

Becasuse they were a stiff necked people.. and had to be told 3 times for it to stick??

a reply to: Advantage

No the sheep laughed actually.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Wookiep

You seem angry?
Haha just a minor mishap on my end. Drunk and having fun, English is not my first language, so I had to go back to see what I was talking about...sorry
They're the first two.
And we talked about the deification of Jesus and I guess originally I wanted to say these clearly advice against that.

Nope, confused and curious tho. Oh but I have been angry on here many times, usually it's relating to politics tho. I never claimed to be a saint either. I actually don't know any Christian who thinks they are. In fact the whole lesson is basically "We all suck, we're all doomed, we need Jesus, Hallelujia".

a reply to: Wookiep

But what could a dead man do about that?
And if God created us all, knows us all and knows everything we think and do before we were even in planning how could we do wrong?

And we talked about the deification of Jesus and I guess originally I wanted to say these clearly advice against that.

Except Jesus is referenced all throughout the old testament, including genesis, and the major prophets. Even the Jews acknowledge this, only difference between them now and Christians is they don't think he's come yet, which was actually foretold to happen as well.

All of this can be scripturally proven, and I will if you're ever curious. Just not tonight, because it's almost time for the Trazadone.