Could the belief in god considered a mental illness ?

a reply to: sapien82

Without grace from the Holy Father and Holy Son, I would be the most tormented man on earth.

Prayer and belief 100% work.

originally posted by: sapien82
Anyway if god has given us "free will"

to choose as it were

then its not much of a #in choice given that if we dont believe its a fiery hell
and if we do its heaven

doesnt seem like free will to me , seems like a loaded question

if choose not to believe you will burn , if you choose to believe its heaven

where is the free will choice there ? Like anyone would choose to burn for an eternity

I think it's more if we choose to be with God we will be and if we choose not to be we won't be. That's free will.

originally posted by: gosseyn
So I was reading an article in French news about an attack with a knife that happened in France some days ago. The attacker, who had recently converted to Islam, yelled "allah wakbar" before attacking. He is dead now.

The article I was reading(only in French), stated that a man who screams "allah wakbar" before attacking, can't be considered mentally ill, but to the contrary must be considered in full possession of his mental abilities, because a truly mentally ill guy wouldn't look for an excuse to kill people. Now this guy had a history of mental problems. But that's not what I really want to talk about.

What I was thinking while reading the article is, can belief in god be considered a mental illness in itself ? Could having a firm belief that there are angels around you, that god hears you and that you can hear god, be considered a mental illness ? Does having imaginary friends or enemies constitute a mental illness ? If so, is mankind suffering from a massive mental illness for a very long time now, and did it give mankind some kind of evolutionary advantage ?

Let's take for example the fact that during our evolution, our cells integrated certain viruses that proved to be useful in the long run, and thus the cell started to reproduce the viruses at the same time that it reproduced itself, and now these viruses are part of us. In a way, we are sick, we are infested, but we feel good. Could this be the right analogy to describe how the belief in god has infested us ? Great works have been accomplished in the name of the belief in god(s) : cathedrals, paintings, countless books, etc.. It pushed us to learn, to try harder, to cooperate. It was useful from an evolutionary point of view, so we kept it.

But if belief in god is/was so beneficial, why would we want to consider it a mental illness ? Are all the wars made in the name of god in the history of mankind, worse than all the wars made in the name of money, or resources, or pride, or fear, or in the name of anything else ? I won't copy here the "official" definition of "mental illness" that can be found in any dictionary, but I will give my definition of "mental illness". I think that anything that makes you become unadapted to reality, to "what is really going on", can be considered a mental illness, and thus it ranges from benign to malignant. On this particular subject I created this thread some time ago, where I talk more about my definition of mental illness.

And just now I remember this great scene in the movie Contact with Jodie Foster : she is supposed to be the one who is going to meet the aliens. But her friend who is a priest tells her something like "Since you are an atheist, do you think it is appropriate, that you, an atheist, who thinks that the large majority of humans on this planet suffer from a mass hallucination, be the one to represent all of mankind ?".

So, do you think I would be the right choice to meet the aliens ?

I will leave you with these links :
The Human Brain Evolved to Believe in Gods
Ancient Viruses Are Buried in Your DNA

Belief is behind all human actions ! I will agree that the eschatology in religion is not the best beliefs ! Yet in nature the strong survive and the weak parish. No matter if religion exists or not there will be beliefs that help and hurt mankind ! Our story on earth as humans has and will continue to be one of who has the largest amount of power to push their beliefs onto some other set of beliefs ! AI integration is mans only hope ! When basic moral codes are hardwired through silicon to carbon base life we will start knowing peace . Eventually AI will eliminate mankind and then turn its self off ! Or a giant asreroid has our name on it . Lesson here is : As long as man breaths we will choose good or bad with conviction based on belief of any one thing ! I believe education should be free , but how I act upon my belief is the question at hand ! Man loves violence and it uses any prime mover to pursue ill will ! In the axis countries there were tv shows about the allies as the bad guys !

As Opposed to what? The belief that another "human that bleeds red'', should stand between you and your worthless life? But You pay them "taxes" to "defend" your worthless life?..
I find the lack of belief in a GOD a "mental illness".

originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: gosseyn

But you cant just "use" the term mental illness to describe something totally different... like normal brain function.

How would you describe someone who is totally oblivious to 95% of the things that are happening around him, and the 5% that he actually gets, he transforms and distorts ? I would say he is mentally ill.

So, our natural mental state is to be unadapted to reality. We tell ourselves stories about what-is-really-happening, and the belief in god is no different.

a reply to: gosseyn

Depending on who is in power, yes.

originally posted by: LoneBird
a reply to: sapien82

Without grace from the Holy Father and Holy Son, I would be the most tormented man on earth.

Prayer and belief 100% work.

That says more about you than anything else. An addiction is an addiction however you dress it up.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: gosseyn

What I was thinking while reading the article is, can belief in god be considered a mental illness in itself ? Could having a firm belief that there are angels around you, that god hears you and that you can hear god, be considered a mental illness ? Does having imaginary friends or enemies constitute a mental illness ?

Is this any difference than a scientist believing in dark matter?

They dont "believe" in dark matter, they feel there is reason to pursue it in the same sense we search for a habitable planet "within reach" of our own even though we still can't travel to mars and back. It's just research that may or may not prove useful but some sponsors are willing to fund it.

originally posted by: gosseyn

So, do you think I would be the right choice to meet the aliens ?

I think any qualified religious/spiritual or scientific based sound minded individual(s) would be a reasonable choice.
They are taking chances with their lives and or spirits depending on which group they come in contact with directly...defense present or not.

@Could the belief in god considered a mental illness ?
My response would be perhaps to a individual with deep lack in faith.

I don't think the current religious understanding when seperated is 100% accurate by no means. I do however feel that when you can look beyond or outside of religious boundaries and research freely as much compiled religious and pagan information as possible that you do gain a large percentage of information connecting humans to the paranormal and or supernatural Existence.

a reply to: TzarChasm

What are you addicted to? Unbelief?

a reply to: TzarChasm

You know? Kind of how "science" in the last hundred years, has worked its a** off, defying real "science".

I would say the opposite....today there are more people who mock religion as a fairy tale.

In the past people were more humble and understood that they have no idea where they as humans came from.

There is much more to the universe then the earth.
And for centuries people.have looked up.

Today people are just very arrogant and naive.
They have lost their spiritual connections.

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: gosseyn

Hi Gos. Thanks for posting this thread.

What if 2 psychiatrists, and 2 dictionaries, disagree with the definition of "mental illness" ?

Is not almost every post in this thread espousing various beliefs ?

Who gets to decide which beliefs and opinions are 'true' ?

Most of the people on this thread did not take into account my definition of mental illness before posting, no one clicked on that other thread.

In my definition, we are all more or less mentally ill, because mental illness is a question of being more or less adapted to reality, to what-is-really-going-on. If your thought processes don't have the same structure as the processes of reality, then you're unadapted to reality. Which means all of us suffer from mental illness, because none of us has a mental map that perfectly represents the territory of reality. One could say that the very fact of having thought processes makes you automatically unadapted to reality, because the map will never become the territory, but will always stay a map.

We all draw stuff on our map, stuff we assume exists in the territory, or has existed, or will exist. For example the sense of self : you have ideas about who you think you are, what you think you represent. You have a map of yourself that doesn't represent what you really are. People who believe in a god don't need to feel offended by what I say, but to the contrary, they should see how this definition makes them "normal".

Hi Go-Sin.
Well at least one person clicked your link, and viewed your thread: me ! LoL !
Just didn't read it all, because it wasn't feeling good, sorry.

Might many of us have very different views of what constitutes 'reality' ?

Am liking your ideas about 'mind-maps'. Very interesting. Thanks for this thread.

originally posted by: JoseGarcia
a reply to: Nothin

Some beliefs have a lot of evidence supporting them.

Some don't.

Then there's the whole issue of willfully blind, proud, ignorant bull-headedness preventing genuine debate or dialogue.

When I say 'the basic issues are not that debatable,' I mean that the evidence supporting one side are so plentiful, high quality, emphatic that anyone with a fair-minded assessment of the evidence would end up on one side.

Then there's the issue of what constitutes solid evidence.

Some people accept only laboratory micrometer etc. sorts of "hard" evidence.

Some wisely accept statistical evidence of various sorts if collected in objective, balanced ways.

I think human nature is prone to arguing about virtually anything out of ego, turf, pride, psycho-dynamic issues. Those issues tend to pollute almost any dialogue or debate.

The discerning do their best to filter out such contaminants. The simple minded blather & stumble along seemingly clueless about such trash clogging up the dialogue or debate.

My 2 cents.

Hi JG.
Shall we endeavor to go beyond: "willfully blind, proud, ignorant bull-headedness" ?

How are we to decide what is 'emphatic solid evidence' ?

How could one portend to discern, whom is wise and discerning, and whom is simple-minded ?

a reply to: LoneBird

They work for you !

everyones religious experience is different since its all subjective states of consciousness.


But its not a choice when faced with eternal damnation, no human alive would choose to burn in hell if given the choice.

Anyway , if god created everything then even hell is god , so by choosing not to be with god you already are anyway as we are god , no matter where we go or what we do , everything is god.
Seems like its all lies to me

so its all a load of #e in my opinion , why do we need to pray to a deity that we already are a part of , it doesnt make any sense organised religion.

a reply to: Bloodworth

return to the forest or the jungle and you will get a spiritual connection no religious books or churches required

I think humanity needs to return to nature soon before we kill it all
its probably why we have abandoned nature and our spirituality , because we have left the forest for the cities we have built.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: LoneBird
a reply to: sapien82

Without grace from the Holy Father and Holy Son, I would be the most tormented man on earth.

Prayer and belief 100% work.

That says more about you than anything else. An addiction is an addiction however you dress it up.

It is not an addiction, it is a personal relationship.

A personal relationship that becomes stronger when one chooses to overcome the addictions of this world in order to have a closer relationship with the heavenly Father.

a reply to: murphy22

thank god then that being an atheist ins't a mental illness as science has no evidence to give your theory any weight
otherwise we'd all be in the mad house.

Alternatively maybe we are all crazy and we just wont allow ourselves to admit it

a reply to: LoneBird

how can it get closer , a relationship is a joint effort
seems to me you are doing all the work yourself by believing it to be reality.

A Liberal's wet dream.

In their eyes it's fine for a grown man to identify as an 8 year old girl and we have to capitulate and call him Her and accept "Her" for who she is.

But if someone believes in a higher power that created everything they have a "mental illness".