Could the belief in god considered a mental illness ?

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: gosseyn

Do you think that not knowing or ignorance is part of this creation? Intentionally implemented into this reality as part of the package?

Would you say that actually knowing what we are and why we are here would cheapen this most excellent ride? Knowing what comes before and after our time in this physical reality would ruin everything.

What makes you say that? Why would knowing the bigger picture spoil our tiny pixel of existence?

a reply to: TzarChasm

One thing I want to look into

because I was discussing Jordan Peterson and his addiction, he studied addiction and drug abuse and has a Phd in clinical psychology , he is well versed in addictions yet he was prescrivbed an addictive drug.
and is now addicted and in rehab.

Did his genetics mean he was destined to become an addict, did he have free will to choose not to use the drugs ,

we were talking about genetics and how we are all pretty much slaves to our genes in one way or another, as they control our every move .

So god apparently gave humanity free will , and based on what some believe that humans are creations of divinity
via intelligent design.

So do we truly have free will if our genes control pretty much every choice we seem to consciously make
from our partners to our diet , our lifestyles are pretty much controlled by our genes

so if you look at it from that point of view, god lied and didnt give anyone free will as he designed our genetic code then he took away our free will

originally posted by: sapien82

So do we truly have free will if our genes control pretty much every choice we seem to consciously make
from our partners to our diet , our lifestyles are pretty much controlled by our genes

It's more so the other way around though. Varying behaviors, perceptions, habits, diet and so on, have a vast effect on our epigenome, which is the way that our genome expresses itself.

a reply to: TzarChasm

If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have an eternal soul and will survive beyond this reality, would you struggle so much for life in the here and now? Wouldn't knowing what lies afterward cheapen the thrill of this existence? Like reading through a book for the second time, knowing what comes next or watching a movie again after knowing the plot twists and conclusion, it just doesn't have the same effect as being a virgin. Couldn't that hold true for this life?

a reply to: cooperton

So much this!!! Science is always trying to submit and prove the idea that our genes and physical body control our personality and consciousness. But it could easily be the other way around or better yet, a combination of the two. Our soul shapes our physical body to limits we accepted when we were born into this vessel. I would much rather live and accept this existence under those terms. For the good souls that get a rotten deal physically in this life, if there is an eternal soul, maybe it was a choice they accepted for them to live, even if it was/is for a short time. Maybe there are lessons to be learned from this reality that are much more valuable to an eternal soul than a short time of suffering. Maybe their suffering brings the people/lessons that surround them with love and patience.

There are so many ways to view this world. It is a shame to waste even a moment of experiencing the beauty of the soul.

Just my thoughts:

Belief in God is not a mental illness.

I think deep down inside everyone of us is the God given knowledge of God. Whether we want it to be there or not. Why do we argue about if there is a God if no existence, why question?

Why do when confronted with extreme fear (falling from the sky in airplane)do we call out to God?

Believer: God save me!

Non Believer: Help! If there is a God? Save me! (Why call out now because somewhere inside you know.)

Or

Severe pain (grieving the loss of a loved one) do we call out to God?

Believer: No, please God , please bring them back, let me go in there place, why God why?
Please help me I am in pain, I can’t do this I need you.

Non Believer: No, please God , please if you are real, please bring them back, let me go in there place, why God why? Please help me I am in pain, if you don’t take this away from me your are not real or not the God I think you should be if you are real.

Both still cried out to God. Why?

Faith brings order out of Chaos…

God has interesting ways of teaching compassion & humility.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: TzarChasm

One thing I want to look into

because I was discussing Jordan Peterson and his addiction, he studied addiction and drug abuse and has a Phd in clinical psychology , he is well versed in addictions yet he was prescrivbed an addictive drug.
and is now addicted and in rehab.

Did his genetics mean he was destined to become an addict, did he have free will to choose not to use the drugs ,

we were talking about genetics and how we are all pretty much slaves to our genes in one way or another, as they control our every move .

So god apparently gave humanity free will , and based on what some believe that humans are creations of divinity
via intelligent design.

So do we truly have free will if our genes control pretty much every choice we seem to consciously make
from our partners to our diet , our lifestyles are pretty much controlled by our genes

so if you look at it from that point of view, god lied and didnt give anyone free will as he designed our genetic code then he took away our free will

Assuming that determinism is a myth, we ALWAYS have a choice.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: TzarChasm

If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have an eternal soul and will survive beyond this reality, would you struggle so much for life in the here and now? Wouldn't knowing what lies afterward cheapen the thrill of this existence? Like reading through a book for the second time, knowing what comes next or watching a movie again after knowing the plot twists and conclusion, it just doesn't have the same effect as being a virgin. Couldn't that hold true for this life?

Life isn't a choose your own adventure novel or a TV show to be enjoyed without spoilers because the story is just that damn good. This is precisely why science exists in the first place.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Why not? With all of the supposed progress that science has made, we still are mostly at theories. The current cosmology theories I believe will fully replaced in my lifetime. So science pretends to provide answers, look at the current state of the union. Madness everywhere. A type of madness that we haven't witnessed during our current recorded history.

From my vantage point so far, this is a very very interesting story complete with free will and self determination. To believe we aren't in full control of our life is a slippery slope. That defeatists attitude could cause many problems just by itself. Kind of like the potential misery that a full belief in most of the religions out there cause, imo.

a reply to: SeekingDepth

Just my thoughts:

Belief in God is not a mental illness.

I think deep down inside everyone of us is the God given knowledge of God. Whether we want it to be there or not. Why do we argue about if there is a God if no existence, why question?

Sometimes I wish there was a god because all of our troubles would be answered just as easy as that. But then I remember if something is too good to be true, that is because it probably is.

a reply to: ClovenSky

Hi CS.
Shall this thread circle back, to examining our beliefs ?

Is one whom believes in a certain thing: 'insane':
and another whom believes in something else; 'sane' ?

What could make some beliefs, more 'sane' than any other ?

Are we just making all of this stuff up ?

a reply to: TzarChasm
Don’t wish, Seek & you will find

Faith is daring the soul to go BEYOND what the eye can see

Unless you are okay with probably?

No all our troubles will not be answered, nor does God promise this.


www.livingwithschizophreniauk.org...

a reply to: Nothin

Hola Nothin. Starting from my base belief of an agnostic, I really like to view both sides from the middle. Both the religious and the atheists claim to have answers that neither can prove. My view is also as much theory as the rest of it. But from observation it appears there is a group that actually walks the walk. It is those that walk the line of self freedom and self determination between the temptations of good and evil, between the forces of yin and yang. Those that accept the duality of this reality. It was observing those people and their attitude towards this reality that finally led me to the path of the agnostic. They don't pray but instead give positive vibrations/thoughts with the realization that is the path of self freedom and self determination. They don't throw their hands in the air and give up, thinking some grand deity is in control and it is pointless to fight 'fate'. They lower their heads and salute whomever created this reality with either a raised middle finger or the pointer and pinky raised in a sign of love. Through either love or pain, they accept and appreciate this world.

How many religious do that? How many people that have an ideology outside of complete free will look at this reality and the beauty of the human soul and give thanks regardless? I haven't seen it very often.

I have no qualifications to determine if someone is sane or not, I just look at how they treat life and each other in general. There is a certain quality and determination of those who accept full self responsibility. Sane and insane are so subjective, maybe harmonic to the pulse of this world would be a better measuring bar.

Haven't you ever observed people over time and come to realize that some people dance through life while others shuffle along wielding a sledgehammer on all things that don't conform to their beliefs. Which do you think embraces free will and which believes they are not in control of their own destiny?

Sane/Insane, I get what you are trying to convey...but there is a simple truth to the dance. The personal dance of aligning with this reality.

From my own personal experiences which probably do not extrapolate out to anyone else. When I was fully religious, I was miserable and it seemed like I was always swimming against the current, wielding the sledgehammer against all things that didn't mesh with my 'faith'. Once I finally removed the last visages of 'religion' I started to harmonize with this reality. I started understanding doing good for the simple sake of the other soul travelers I share this reality with. It seems like it is now a dance of pleasure, wondering what is under the next rock or crevasse. I try to be a child because they know how to appreciate this place.

Dang it, I think I lost it somewhere....what was your question again?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: TzarChasm

If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have an eternal soul and will survive beyond this reality, would you struggle so much for life in the here and now? Wouldn't knowing what lies afterward cheapen the thrill of this existence? Like reading through a book for the second time, knowing what comes next or watching a movie again after knowing the plot twists and conclusion, it just doesn't have the same effect as being a virgin. Couldn't that hold true for this life?

Life isn't a choose your own adventure novel or a TV show to be enjoyed without spoilers because the story is just that damn good. This is precisely why science exists in the first place.

Science was undertaken to understand Gods creation.
Today it’s undertaken to prove God doesn’t exist

As for choosing religion or faith, why would anyone choose peace, love and compassion in this world over Thor, Mohamad or those beliefs that allow power and revenge, human nature to be vented

originally posted by: SeekingDepth
Just my thoughts:

Belief in God is not a mental illness.

I think deep down inside everyone of us is the God given knowledge of God. Whether we want it to be there or not. Why do we argue about if there is a God if no existence, why question?

Why do when confronted with extreme fear (falling from the sky in airplane)do we call out to God?

Believer: God save me!

Non Believer: Help! If there is a God? Save me! (Why call out now because somewhere inside you know.)
...

Why ?
Dunno: it's your story.
Not a 'reality', or 'truth': just a story, no ?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Assuming that determinism is a myth, we ALWAYS have a choice.

Hi TC.
Does that mean that we don't have a choice, about whether we have a choice, or, err... not ?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: TzarChasm

If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have an eternal soul and will survive beyond this reality, would you struggle so much for life in the here and now? Wouldn't knowing what lies afterward cheapen the thrill of this existence? Like reading through a book for the second time, knowing what comes next or watching a movie again after knowing the plot twists and conclusion, it just doesn't have the same effect as being a virgin. Couldn't that hold true for this life?

Life isn't a choose your own adventure novel or a TV show to be enjoyed without spoilers because the story is just that damn good. This is precisely why science exists in the first place.

Science was undertaken to understand Gods creation.
Today it’s undertaken to prove God doesn’t exist

As for choosing religion or faith, why would anyone choose peace, love and compassion in this world over Thor, Mohamad or those beliefs that allow power and revenge, human nature to be vented

Peace, love and compassion are independent of religion and messiah figures. They are not codependent concepts.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Science was undertaken to understand Gods creation.

Perhaps back in the day there were 'scientists' who would have agreed with that statement. Not so much nowadays! Here is a quote from Google that might help you understand what science is now.

"the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment."

Today it’s undertaken to prove God doesn’t exist

That's an outright lie. I would have expected better from someone who claims to adhere to Christian principles.
Science makes no attempt to disprove God. It's just unfortunate for those of a religious persuasion that education and knowledge naturally push superstition and fantasy away.

As for choosing religion or faith, why would anyone choose peace, love and compassion in this world over Thor, Mohamad or those beliefs that allow power and revenge, human nature to be vented

Why would anyone choose any religion?
Human nature is what it is and qualities like love and compassion exist in all of us. I find it sad that there are those who need religion to tell them how to live.
Why not free yourself from that nonsense and take responsibility for your own life and choices? You claim to be Christian and yet here you are full of petty shallowness. I suppose that's par for the course.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: TzarChasm

If you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have an eternal soul and will survive beyond this reality, would you struggle so much for life in the here and now? Wouldn't knowing what lies afterward cheapen the thrill of this existence? Like reading through a book for the second time, knowing what comes next or watching a movie again after knowing the plot twists and conclusion, it just doesn't have the same effect as being a virgin. Couldn't that hold true for this life?

Life isn't a choose your own adventure novel or a TV show to be enjoyed without spoilers because the story is just that damn good. This is precisely why science exists in the first place.

Science was undertaken to understand Gods creation.
Today it’s undertaken to prove God doesn’t exist

As for choosing religion or faith, why would anyone choose peace, love and compassion in this world over Thor, Mohamad or those beliefs that allow power and revenge, human nature to be vented

Peace, love and compassion are independent of religion and messiah figures. They are not codependent concepts.

I would argue that with no hesitation, even confessed Christians struggle with Christ’s teachings
Who do you see supporting your comments.
Any societies you could mention off hand to help me understand?

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Assuming that determinism is a myth, we ALWAYS have a choice.

Hi TC.
Does that mean that we don't have a choice, about whether we have a choice, or, err... not ?

You have a choice to determine what you want to learn in this lifetime (you wrote the script). Then you incarnate and the rules say you forget everything or everyone you were in prior incarnations. Self determination goes out the window; but you still think you are in charge of your destiny. You are not. You are bound to that contract you signed before you became human again.