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originally posted by: TzarChasm
originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: TzarChasm
who said anything about jedi mind tricks and sorcery ?
It's a common misconception I keep seeing on this part of the forums. Measuring subatomic particles is the same as psychic manipulation of reality apparently.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: midicon
Precisely the point I was trying to communicate. There is no psychic or psionic activity taking place. The article goes on to explain that this is a telecommunications exercise that affects the transfer of electronic information between machines.
The experiment's finding that observation tends to kill interference may be used in tomorrow's technology to ensure the secrecy of information transfer. This can be accomplished if information is encoded in such a way that the interference of multiple electron paths is needed to decipher it. "The presence of an eavesdropper, who is an observer, although an unwanted one, would kill the interference," says Prof. Heiblum. "This would let the recipient know that the message has been intercepted."
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton
I'm not reducing anything, I read the article. You are the one inserting extraneous information in a manner the article didn't actually say.
"The experiment's finding that observation tends to kill interference may be used in tomorrow's technology to ensure the secrecy of information transfer. This can be accomplished if information is encoded in such a way that the interference of multiple electron paths is needed to decipher it. "The presence of an eavesdropper, who is an observer, although an unwanted one, would kill the interference," says Prof. Heiblum. "This would let the recipient know that the message has been intercepted."
originally posted by: cooperton
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton
I'm not reducing anything, I read the article. You are the one inserting extraneous information in a manner the article didn't actually say.
"The experiment's finding that observation tends to kill interference may be used in tomorrow's technology to ensure the secrecy of information transfer. This can be accomplished if information is encoded in such a way that the interference of multiple electron paths is needed to decipher it. "The presence of an eavesdropper, who is an observer, although an unwanted one, would kill the interference," says Prof. Heiblum. "This would let the recipient know that the message has been intercepted."
The bolded part is actually saying the opposite of what you want. They are saying the observer is the variable that effects the wave-function collapse (reduced interference pattern). They are saying you would essentially be able to know if someone were intercepting the message, which would be determinable due to the observer effect.
It's an empirical fact, repeated countless times throughout history.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
In communications technology which is developed to exploit this particular effect. Not in the sense that the moon blinks out of existence if everyone stops looking at it.
originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: cooperton
I remember reading about the observer "state" and that even measuring something is in effect an observer any attempt of measurement is considered observation , it doesnt require a living conscious being in order to "observe"
I also read that the universe acts as though it is an observer simply by the fact that all particles are constantly and continually interacting / reacting to one another and so this also serves as observation or measurement in a sense
so the universe is effectively constantly observing itself and collaspsing the wave function in order to produce reality in dimensional space
After all , if we are all a part of the same system (david bohm , wholeness and the implicate order) , then there is no escaping the "observation"
as we are one giant sea of particles constantly interacting in one system known as the universe.
originally posted by: Nothin
originally posted by: cooperton
...The Copenhagen interpretation is probably the best empirical evidence for the notion of consciousness being intimately connected to the manifestation of matter.
Hey Coope.
Am glad that you have introduced 'interpretation', as 'empirical evidence' , and it has gone unchallenged, so far.
...
Now listen to Niels Bohr, the pioneer of 20th century physics:
An independent reality, in the ordinary physical sense, can neither be ascribed to the phenomena nor to the agencies of observation. [3]
Consider the words of Shankara, the famous Hindu philosopher: All things -- from Brahma the creator down to a single blade of grass -- are. . .simply appearances and not real. [4]
Compare with Werner Heisenberg, the inventor of quantum mechanics: If one wants to give an accurate description of the elementary particle. . .the only thing which can be written down as description is a probability function. But then one sees that not even the quality of being. . .belongs to what is described
RELATIVE TRUTH
Spiritual paradigm Being becoming Ocean (of energy) becoming waves Perspective as ego mind False
ABSOLUTE TRUTH Metaphysical paradigm Being dreaming becoming Movie 'appearing' on a screen Perspective as the Self
true Creation
Creation of a world within spirit or energy.
No creation The world of forms is imagined in indivisible consciousness. No world is ever created. No world truly exists as an objective reality independent of consciousness.
Transformation Modification of spirit or energy (one substance modifying and transforming into another) resulting in a world of constant change.
No transformation Any perceived transformations are only imagined as there is no material in indivisible consciousness for any substance to modify or transform into another. i.e. Steam to water to ice.
Space Physical space within which a world can exist
No space Since consciousness is a non-spatial spiritual reality, as in your dreams during sleep, space is imagined within your consciousness to perceive an objective world (life story).
Albert Einstein Quotes. Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Everything you can imagine is real. – Pablo Picasso
“I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?” ? John Lennon
“Reality is frequently inaccurate.” ? Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
“Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.” ? Frank Herbert, Dune
originally posted by: cooperton
...The Copenhagen interpretation is probably the best empirical evidence for the notion of consciousness being intimately connected to the manifestation of matter.
originally posted by: cooperton
originally posted by: TzarChasm
In communications technology which is developed to exploit this particular effect. Not in the sense that the moon blinks out of existence if everyone stops looking at it.
Although it is speculation, I share similar views to what sapien said on the last page regarding the definition of "observer"
originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: cooperton
I remember reading about the observer "state" and that even measuring something is in effect an observer any attempt of measurement is considered observation , it doesnt require a living conscious being in order to "observe"
I also read that the universe acts as though it is an observer simply by the fact that all particles are constantly and continually interacting / reacting to one another and so this also serves as observation or measurement in a sense
so the universe is effectively constantly observing itself and collaspsing the wave function in order to produce reality in dimensional space
After all , if we are all a part of the same system (david bohm , wholeness and the implicate order) , then there is no escaping the "observation"
as we are one giant sea of particles constantly interacting in one system known as the universe.
In my opinion, the observer effect demonstrates the integral part of consciousness in regards to reality. The observer effect in the double slit experiment is essentially hacking into this fact, showing that physical laws are "aware" of the conscious observer
originally posted by: TzarChasm
Laws aren't aware.
They are symptoms of a natural force or a collection of forces operating without any form of data interaction, conscious or otherwise. It is purely fundamental reflex at the most innate level of existence.
originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Astronomer62
Perhaps humans just like using auspicious dates and names (particularly those that seem relevant or appropriate). I doubt that any scientists follow 'Hermetic Philosophy'.