Could the belief in god considered a mental illness ?

a reply to: Raggedyman

So if Christainity is the way, from what I'm gauging from your own opinion. Wouldn't that entail that not only Judaism an Islam are wrong about life an the details about Jesus, but so is every other beleive system, all while yours is right?

What would make yours right, an what proof would a Christian have to say unbelievers into their flock? Miraculously healing, super human feats, or dumb luck.

Isnt it hypocritical to criticize other opinions while one is entitled to their own. Judge not less ye be judge an all that jazz.

originally posted by: Specimen88
a reply to: Raggedyman

So if Christainity is the way, from what I'm gauging from your own opinion. Wouldn't that entail that not only Judaism an Islam are wrong about life an the details about Jesus, but so is every other beleive system, all while yours is right?

Many other practices, philosophies and religions teach similarly to the Christian philosophy. I think it was St Augustine who warned the Christian zealots at the time not to call something false just because it came out of a non-Christian's mouth.

Isnt it hypocritical to criticize other opinions while one is entitled to their own. Judge not less ye be judge an all that jazz.

Jesus never forced his opinions on anyone, and neither should we. He did stand his ground though in regards to the things he knew was true. It is a matter of objective fact. Jesus is the conscious pillar and foundation of all things. He proved this by conquering death. Altruism, love, hope, faith, and so on are all attributes that leads to the archetypal human.

a reply to: cooperton

And some of them predate Christs birth, but that could just be casuailty, or the same old song about poor vs rich.

Except for that one time he whipped a bunch merchants in the market place which got him crucified. But hey were are all human, even though it is proposedly said that he isnt.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

What's so wrong with what I said? I didn't say silence the Christians or abolish the church. I said theism as a general principle is not relevant to government.

It is most relevant to social conduct. If everyone on earth were to actually live according to Christian ideals, a global utopia would ensue. We shouldn't beg government to mandate us how to behave, it begins with people behaving according to truth.

We don't beg the government, we hire its members to do a very specific job so we don't have to depend on the whims of a cosmic agency. What do you think a global Utopia looks like? How is society both protected and nurtured? How is authority managed and accounted for?

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: rom12345

Yes
In the most important matters that may trouble you. there is no one else has the answers.
Most will only open them selves to God when they are desperate.
Prayer manifests great utility if it is in accordance with good intention.

I'm sure that there are people all over the world right now, in desperate situations and praying to God but to no avail. I would suggest that God never helps. Of course you might just be referring to some introspective 'dark night of the soul' or some such and if so I would find it difficult to accept anything other than it was a subjective experience.

Fortunately I'm not 'troubled' in the sense that I need anything supernatural to vicariously live my life through. There is enough beauty and wonder in this life right now without the idea of a God. It's never enough for some though, there are those that always want more, something bigger, more beautiful, all powerful, all knowing...and not only that, they want an afterlife too!

Sadly, there is no life in the afterlife and only the living can live.

Now that is excellent, very excellent. If I may take it a step further and suggest that those who rely on a spiritual savior are in worse shape than those who rely on themselves to resolve their issues and discover who they truly are inside. Do those who always rely and continuously use god as their only means of problem solving really grow spiritually during this reality?

Mental illness is often caused by guilt and shame.
Perhaps it is only the wretched who require redemption.
Perhaps it is only the bitter who need to practice forgiveness.
Before and after life, there is no need to believe in God
only during.

originally posted by: rom12345
Mental illness is often caused by guilt and shame.
Perhaps it is only the wretched who require redemption.
Perhaps it is only the bitter to practice forgiveness.
Before and after life, there is no need to believe in God
only during.

Mental illness is mostly caused by guilt and shame? Got any evidence for that?

a reply to: Jay-morris
Yes, there is evidence: it's a broad topic but I would start here: NPD, and also the other cluster B disorders.
These are born of guild and shame, and then propagate it to others, causing new cases of NDP or BPD, as well as anxiety and depression in those they come in contact with.

Someone who is having a "religious psychosis" could very well be, being psychologically tortured by someone with NPD, and praying only for objective reality and mercy.

Those that need the redemption, often will have no insight into their wrong doings.

Which of the two is "crazy'' ?

If someone who can not, by their nature pray, takes up religion
you get Jim Jones

The beliefs, hopes, faith, of the torturers and the tortured are not in the same category.

Secular mechanisms like laws, can be for most. mostly ineffective when bargaining for truth.
There needs to be a higher authority to maintain proper intentions.

I would not separate the hypothetical requirement for God, from the real one.

a reply to: rom12345

So your evidence for this, you just bring up Narcissistic personality disorder? Do you actually know how many mental disorders there are out there. Are you some sort of expert in mental health? Or is this just all belief on your part.

So, please post evidence that most mental illness is to do with guilt and shame?

a reply to: Jay-morris
I said often not most.
I do how ever believe that it is a good proportion if traced back to it's roots.
I do not feel compelled to give evidence for my beliefs.

a reply to: rom12345

What about the massive amount of guilt each and every man created religion causes? Not wearing a burka being a female in public....Going to Hell. Pleasured yourself recently....going to hell. Respected a contract with a joium ... going to hell. So many BS laws that have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with leading a virtuous life.

I wonder how many other mental illnesses are directly caused by religion. You know, man made control mechanisms that don't reflect reality in the slightest. You believe because you can't witness most of the cause and effect the man created texts espouse. You hold tightly onto that belief while reality tells you a completely different story. Cognitive dissonance anyone?

a reply to: gosseyn


Better yet , Could the Disbelief in a Supreme Being who Created Our Universe and ALL Intelligent LIFE in It be Considered a " Mental Illness " ? YES ...........

a reply to: ClovenSky
I do agree, that jealous men hiding wives they do not trust not to betray them, is a highly disordered state of affairs.

originally posted by: ClovenSky

I wonder how many other mental illnesses are directly caused by religion. You know, man made control mechanisms that don't reflect reality in the slightest. You believe because you can't witness most of the cause and effect the man created texts espouse. You hold tightly onto that belief while reality tells you a completely different story. Cognitive dissonance anyone?

This is why Jesus's biggest opposition was the religious elites at the time.

originally posted by: Specimen88

Except for that one time he whipped a bunch merchants in the market place which got him crucified. But hey were are all human, even though it is proposedly said that he isnt.

The exceptions to his general behavior show things of great importance. He was generally very cool calm and collected, yet he gets furious when money supersedes and takes over the purpose of the church. It is a timeless warning against how profiteering has no place in the house of God, which was emphasized by the fact that he got so heated about it.

originally posted by: Specimen88
a reply to: Raggedyman

So if Christainity is the way, from what I'm gauging from your own opinion. Wouldn't that entail that not only Judaism an Islam are wrong about life an the details about Jesus, but so is every other beleive system, all while yours is right?

What would make yours right, an what proof would a Christian have to say unbelievers into their flock? Miraculously healing, super human feats, or dumb luck.

Isnt it hypocritical to criticize other opinions while one is entitled to their own. Judge not less ye be judge an all that jazz.

You might want to rephrase all that, doesn’t make any sense to me at all

I didn’t say Christianity is right, I have faith it’s right
Anything you assume about Judaism or Islam is irrelevant, I didn’t discuss Judaism or Islam, how is it even relevant to what TC said

What would be hypocritical is if I said that atheists couldn’t vote in elections or vote for atheist candidates.
TC said Christians shouldn’t vote for Christian candidates because Christian candidates shouldn’t be allowed to run because they have Christian principles. In fact he said no religious beliefs belong in politics and that’s denying people free will to vote for who they wish and based on what their personal principles are based on.
If you can’t understand that, no worries.
Not my problem

TC is a dictator who wants power and control based on his own personal beliefs, others views and opinions should not be tolerated, stalinesque of him isn’t it?

originally posted by: silo13
...And - there are no atheists in hell...

originally posted by: Nothin


Whom might argue against that ?

How could you say nothing like that ?

What are you: Some Kind Of Renowned Probabilistic Internet Expert On Nothing ?
A SKORPIEON ?

Oh yeah ?

Who are you calling a SKORPIEON ?

You know nothing ! ... ? ?

So: why are there no atheists in hell ?

originally posted by: rom12345
a reply to: Jay-morris
I said often not most.
I do how ever believe that it is a good proportion if traced back to it's roots.
I do not feel compelled to give evidence for my beliefs.

So basically, you are not an expert in mental illness, and you do not have any evidence to back up your belief. That's all I wanted to know.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: rom12345
a reply to: Jay-morris
I said often not most.
I do how ever believe that it is a good proportion if traced back to it's roots.
I do not feel compelled to give evidence for my beliefs.

So basically, you are not an expert in mental illness, and you do not have any evidence to back up your belief. That's all I wanted to know.

You are correct, but I have done a great deal off research into it. Certain aspects of it lead me to look for answers in religious teachings. Even though most on these fora are not certified experts in the paranormal, I choose not to belittle there attempt to find insight. You seem to be throwing up a straw man for reasons I can only imagine to be a defense mechanism. I may not be a certified expert, but have extensive first hand experience in these matters.

originally posted by: rom12345

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: rom12345
a reply to: Jay-morris
I said often not most.
I do how ever believe that it is a good proportion if traced back to it's roots.
I do not feel compelled to give evidence for my beliefs.

So basically, you are not an expert in mental illness, and you do not have any evidence to back up your belief. That's all I wanted to know.

You are correct, but I have done a great deal off research into it. Certain aspects of it lead me to look for answers in religious teachings. Even though most on these fora are not certified experts in the paranormal, I choose not to belittle there attempt to find insight. You seem to be throwing up a straw man for reasons I can only imagine to be a defense mechanism. I may not be a certified expert, but have extensive first hand experience in these matters.

I am not throwing up a straw man! I asked you for evidence, and you cannot provide this evidence. So, that tells me you know little about mental health, and the many different types of you think most of them are caused by guilt and shame?

Yes, guilt and shame can make you depressed and give you anxiety problems , and make your mental health worse. No one is denying that, but there is so much more go mental health than just depression and anxiety.

a reply to: Jay-morris
You must know a great deal, to deduce that I know little.
In your post you appear to have a theory of my mind, and the validity of my opinion.
If you are interested in the topic, start with NPD, the BPD, and then work through all the clusters.
Keep a bible handy to find the parallels.
Until then, your expertness in my non expertness in not up for debate.