Killing Qasem Soleimani The Good The Bad and The ugly

Ah with profound apologies to the Falafel loving Bill O'Riley and to the classic Clint Eastwood movie for stealing his title but in this case it seems to fit the current situation we find ourselves in the Middle East: (please note Trump is only the latest bungler in the Middle East and EVERY US president from Truman to Obama shares equal parts blame)

The Good: The killing of General Qasem Soleimani removes a pivotal piece from the chessboard. The general was by every definition a terrorist in the same fashion that the House of Saud aka the Saudi Royal Family is. He is the impetus, the logistical force behind, and the mastermind of Iran's paramilitary and guerilla efforts world wide. He earned his chops leading troops in the Iran / Iraq war and lead from the front, not some desk in Qom thus he was to the IIRC a charismatic, larger than life figure in the fashion of say a Patton and he will be difficult if not impossible to replace. His efforts against ISIS are really what won the war against them. Yes the US helped, but there are limits to Spec ops and bombs away. He was also willing to play the long game to achieve his goals and unlike Bin laden he stayed in the open instead the of hiding like a little bitch in a cave. He was a supremely dangerous opponent and we and the world are way better off with him dead.


The Bad: There is no easy solution to Iran and in the short to middle term the killing of Qasem Soleimani will unify an increasingly fractured country. Iran is now 4+ decades post the deposition of the Shah and the generations of Iranians that remember his rule and the revolution are dwindling. The younger generations are increasingly rejecting the religious hegemony that is present day Iran. The religious clique with each passing day resembles the Shah at his worst with secret police, torture, killing of protestors , and mass incarcerations. It will not happen in the time frame we want but eventually Iran will return to the fold if we let them. If we invade or attack we set the clock back decades. Its really that simple.

Trump was correct in taking the general out. But he also needs to learn to STOP with the stupid tweets. The Taliban like threat to target cultural sites simply plays directly into the radicals agenda and drives the people of Iran into their embrace. Seriously enough...........

The Ugly: In the good I spoke of the long game and killing him plays right into that. The Iraqi legislature passing the demand that the US pull out its remaining troops is just that. The US troops in Iraq were the final piece that Iran needed to cement Iraq as a literal puppet state. Shiite's hold a majority and most are beholden to Iran. Its that simple much has been made that none of the opposition groups were present but the reality is that they hold a majority and most of their cabinet is in Iran's pocket. With the US out of play this gives Iran de-facto control of a huge chunk of the worlds oil AND coupled with the simple fact that Assad sold his soul to Putin and Iran, they now have influence over 3 geographically connect and politically important countries. We will have a pan-#e state stretching from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean Sea....


So what do we do? We set this whole disaster in motion with Operation Ajax when we deposed a democratically elected leader in Iran (Mossadeq) and installed the Shah in his place See my old thread Operation AJAX: Iran and How The CIA Planted the Seeds of Middle East Terrorism in 1953) for more details on that debacle. Trillions of dollars later and untold carnage and bloodshed has gotten us nowhere.

The simple truth is that you cannot defeat an enemy that is willing to die for cause and country. It has been true since the Revolutionary War and its true today.............We need a Marshall Plan for the Middle East.

What does that look like? I don't have a clue, but what we have done the last 5 decades has gotten us nowhere fast

I'll be honest, I did not read your entire Hardy Boys novel. All I know is Trump hates war. War impedes making money. Sure, some markets expand like military vendors, medical but most everything else dies.

War is basically worthless big picture. Really don't want that. What is best is expanding markets. Bring Iran into the entire market. I think this will eventually happen but some of their moron leaders have to be axed. The people over there are begging for change.

Very well said..not much I can add!

Sorry, but I quit reading your thread as soon as you compared General Patton to this low life POS.

Learn some history.

a reply to: FredT

This is one topic I fail to have an unemotional response to.

I just can't. I spent my service career actually helping the injured.

Never fired a weapon, spent all my time trying to make our soldiers live. My MOS was science/medical related.

So when one of the masterminds that created so much ####ing work for me takes a dirt nap, then all I can do is celebrate.

I hope there is a Hell and he is rotting in it.

Also, I hold in low regard anyone who has defended this disgusting piece of offal because of the blood, sh#t, piss, tears, I have had to wade through to save our men and women soldiers.

Sorry bossman, but this is one topic I am very emotional about.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Sorry, but I quit reading your thread as soon as you compared General Patton to this low life POS.

Learn some history.

Charismatic leader who lead from the front and was very similar in style to Patton. Please note I said he was revered by the IIRC not by anybody else Perhaps it is you who should read up on various leadership styles, reading for comprehension, and history LOL.

a reply to: FredT

...please note Trump is only the latest bungler in the Middle East.

I quit reading your diatribe right there.

PRESIDENT Trump showed patience during Iran's attacks against the USA until they actually killed a citizen.

PRESIDENT Trump showed valor in turning a known terrorist into a jelly roll.

PRESIDENT Trump showed strength when he told Iran - if they harmed a US citizen again he would turn their whole nation into 'toast' to go with that 'jelly roll'.

PRESIDENT Trump proved his willingness to 'keep the peace' when he extended his hand in the effort of peace, joining together with Iran to continue the fight against ISIS.

NO BUNGLE IN THAT!

Edit to Add: I removed a remark as this isn't the Mud Pit - I thought it was.

Thank you OP.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Cowboy, did you actually read the post?

He was a supremely dangerous opponent and we and the world are way better off with him dead.

Not sure if you think this was some sort of eulogy????????? Its a good move but like with everything else in the Middle East there are untold layers and complications

a reply to: FredT
Everyone is far too wrapped up in their tribalism to be objective

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Sorry, but I quit reading your thread as soon as you compared General Patton to this low life POS.

Learn some history.

Charismatic leader who lead from the front and was very similar in style to Patton. Please note I said he was revered by the IIRC not by anybody else Perhaps it is you who should read up on various leadership styles, reading for comprehension, and history LOL.

Patton Lead an army of soldiers, not an army of terrorists. Patton never slit women’s throats and forced their husbands to watch before he burned them alive. When Patton died, was there cheering in the streets by Americans like there was by the Iranians for this low life terrorist? Did the US government force people to go to his funeral? How many people did Patton torture? How many bomb attacks did her personally plan and execute.

The two are nothing even remotely similar.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: FredT

If you can't understand or 'handle it' - find your 'safe space' and cry into your pillow.

You realize that this IS not in the mud pit right? So lets not get all Ad Hom. Its hardly making your point.

Yes we all know about all of the many bellicose tweets Trump has fired off. But how exactly has that helped the situation. We have no plan other than bombs away and that has not worked for the last 50 years

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: DBCowboy

Cowboy, did you actually read the post?

He was a supremely dangerous opponent and we and the world are way better off with him dead.

Not sure if you think this was some sort of eulogy????????? Its a good move but like with everything else in the Middle East there are untold layers and complications

I'm not condemning you, I'm just saying that I cannot be objective about this..

I was USAMMA/USAMRIID, had an office in Silver Springs but spent years TDY.

I can never wash off all the blood.

Ever.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: FredT
Everyone is far too wrapped up in their tribalism to be objective

Yeah no kidding. Your not going to fix the Middle East with the same old same o......... Needs to change things up

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: FredT
Everyone is far too wrapped up in their tribalism to be objective

I am not (if it moves kill it).

a reply to: FredT

Why shouldn’t trump use twitter?

It allows him to speak directly to people and totally bypass the liberal propaganda lying machine also known as the mainstream media being able to spin what he says.

Its genius if you ask me. I’ve lost count of how many times CNN or MSNBC has run a story about something Trump did or said only to get called out by him on Twitter and have to retract their story later.

Maybe that’s the real reason you don’t like him using Twitter?

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Sorry, but I quit reading your thread as soon as you compared General Patton to this low life POS.

Learn some history.

Charismatic leader who lead from the front and was very similar in style to Patton. Please note I said he was revered by the IIRC not by anybody else Perhaps it is you who should read up on various leadership styles, reading for comprehension, and history LOL.

Charismatic Leader could have used an M60 Patton TANK to traverse point A to B. He might have lingered a while.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I hear you but the Middle East is a disaster and and we will spill more of our own blood into those sands.

We need a different approach

a reply to: FredT

Thanks for reminding me - I did think it was in the 'Mud Pit' when you started in on Trump.

That being said - I wasn't referring at all to his Tweets - but his actions.

Thanks again

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

Charismatic Leader could have used an M60 Patton TANK to traverse point A to B. He might have lingered a while.

Nah even an ERA equipped M60 would not have made a difference with those Hellfire missiles.

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: DBCowboy

I hear you but the Middle East is a disaster and and we will spill more of our own blood into those sands.

We need a different approach

The Middle East is a disaster because we're not fighting a country like Germany in WWII, we're fighting an ideology.

And in all reality, we've been fighting it since the Middle Ages.