If Trump is able to avoid war, will he get any credit?

a reply to: CynConcepts

No one in my family avoided the draft.
Both my father, my brother and now my son served.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: DBCowboy

He is a coward. Mr. Bone spurs.
Everyone knows that he cheated his way out of selective service just like he cheats at everything.
Everyone knows.

Stop using the word everyone when you know that quite a lot of people - including the person you are responding to - do not agree with the statement you are using everyone in.

It's actually funny to me you call him a coward when there was literally two assassination attempts at his rallies during the campaign, and he keeps doing them regularly.

He might be the most hated man in American history - but it is not stopping him or changing his actions to appease the haters at all - that is not what a coward does.

originally posted by: Sillyolme

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: network dude

Credit?

Sorry, but you don't get credit for avoiding a war that you almost started. That's like asking for credit not giving somebody a concussion after you've walked up behind them and slugged them with a baseball bat.

Trump could have avoided a war simply by going golfing instead. Or sleeping in, or literally anything else.

War with Iran isn't inevitable, it's an artificially created situation caused by hawks in Washington demanding that nobody have greater regional influence than America.

My thoughts exactly. You don't get credit for getting us out of the trouble you got us into.

He has to go. NOW !

may i remind you of the Wech bagthu wedding :

www.theguardian.com...

military.wikia.org...

37 kills for your bringer of change , Obama.

Mostly woman and children also , nobody told Obama to get out of office.

Trump kills a enemy combatant and has to go ?

Quds supports and funds terrorists all across the region , if you want to wage war by proxy against some one don't cry when they fight back.

Or find another job maybe , if he was a cook this didnt happen. he was the right hand man of a guy who gives the order to open fire on their own people.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: bastion

It's relevant. By giving them access to nuclear, tech, money they are not going to change anything in regards to abuses of human rights. It will get worse that's why. Nothing in those agreements was tied to improving human rights in their country. I have a serious problem with that as a US tax payer. I don't want my money going to any country doing that stuff.

That's untrue: news.un.org...

The latest agreement between the Government of Iran and negotiations from six nations on limiting the scope of the Gulf country’s nuclear programme has opened the door to further discussion of the Iranian human rights situation, according to an independent United Nations expert.

Sadly there's a lot of countries around the world that have horrible human rights records and execute people for being gay, in many cases the US has put the brutal dictators in power or continues to support more extreme nations such as Saudi - I get the point you're trying to make and agree, but the US would need to be consistent in using that policy instead of cherry picking and actively supporting Wahhabism and militant Islam under the Raegan Oil agreements.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Millions of "not rich" kids maintained a high grade level in college and never were drafted.

Unless of course you can show some proof of your ranting 😃

a reply to: bastion

Opened the door is not changing anything. Only discussions which means no real change. It should have been firm conditions or no deal from day one.

originally posted by: network dude
I'm of the belief that no matter what he does, those who hate him will contort, twist, and flop their way into finding a negative and some way to bash him. They hate, for the sake of hating. But at this time, EVERYONE is saying the same thing. Iran doesn't want war. Trump doesn't want war. The haters claim to not want war, but knowing that Trump's stance is that, it's likely to change completely.


War is idiotic. People die, regular people, us. Buildings are destroyed, sometimes amazing structures that should be preserved for future generations to marvel at. Lives are disrupted. And in the end, the side who lost the lest, wins. Yay! I have seen what war can do. No, I have never been engaged in war, I have never fired a weapon at a person for any reason. But while I was in the USAF, we flew into Sarajevo to drop supplies. On the approach, we flew over the city, or what was left of it. Mostly destroyed homes. People moving around pushing their last worldly possessions in a shopping cart. And from the looks of them, they weren't aggressors in any way. More like the remnants of a town decimated by a stupid war. We flew into Croatia, and saw what I thought was the most beautiful landscape I had ever seen. A winery overlooking huge cliffs and massive waves crashing far below. Not long after my visit, I was told that too, was decimated and erased. Was that considered a win, or a loss?

The point is, war isn't the way to progress. I believe Trump knows that, and his opposition to it has to do with the human cost. Ruling a nation with that kind of conscience must be hell. I wish those who flippantly throw armchair comments would try to put themselves in that place for a moment, before the jaws flap.

If you are spiritual, please pray for peace not war. Hope and Pray that the leaders of other nations also understand and fear the human cost of war. And try to remember your stance on all this, so when you decide to guzzle that hatoraid once more, you realize it's what causes that ugly look on your face, not the President. And don't be afraid to offer that rare praise for someone doing the right thing.

They (msm/dems/nevertrumpers) will not accept that the president may actually have a plan.
And God forbid that plan work in the favor of the American people.
No more than blind rage and hatred. She lost and they refuse to get over it....

originally posted by: Sillyolme
Did you even read how this drastic option was only put on the list so that Trump would chose one of the other options?
But noooooo. He goes for the most drastic option on the list.

#sourcessay, amirite?

I mean, media blowing every major story in a way that paints our president in the worst possible light certainly gives us ample reason to trust their unnamed sources, right?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: CynConcepts

No one in my family avoided the draft.
Both my father, my brother and now my son served.

Then you of all people should be thankful that we have a leader who ensures that our defense budget was increased, pushed for better VA management, and ensures the world knows that he will not turn his back on our troops let alone any American, just because of political correctness or bad optics may be problematic for him personally!

originally posted by: Sillyolme

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: network dude

Credit?

Sorry, but you don't get credit for avoiding a war that you almost started. That's like asking for credit not giving somebody a concussion after you've walked up behind them and slugged them with a baseball bat.

Trump could have avoided a war simply by going golfing instead. Or sleeping in, or literally anything else.

War with Iran isn't inevitable, it's an artificially created situation caused by hawks in Washington demanding that nobody have greater regional influence than America.

My thoughts exactly. You don't get credit for getting us out of the trouble you got us into.

He has to go. NOW !

Trump got us into it?

How about the many hundreds of US citizens he plotted to kill and did? Oh, right, that General was a darling of the left, predictible.

How about the children he tortured in front of their parents to get the parents to cooperate? Oh, right, the General was a peace lover.

How about the many many people he was in charge of killing for having the wrong religion? Oh, right, that never happened, except survivors tell us it did.

But the left is so predictable, support anyone and everyone who hates Trump, even if they are genocidal and kill US citizens. So typical of Democrats. Their soundbites after this were IDENTICAL to the Iranian soundbites on the subject. But again to be expected, the left always sides with the enemy, if it is an enemy of any single conservative in the US.

Thus is the deep and abiding hatred in the hearts of liberals and Democrats for every single conservative in the entire US.

Put someone in the hospital for wearing a MAGA hat and no other reason, that's fine with Democrats and liberals. Because it is a conservative US citizen.

Kill a terroristic general who has killed thousands, verified, thousands of civilians and US citizens, perfectly ok with the liberal left in the US.

Go figure. So very typical of today's "woke" liberal. Cry for the enemy, be gleeful when a conservative US citizen is attacked.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: network dude

Trump could have avoided a war simply by going golfing instead. Or sleeping in, or literally anything else.

So what would you do when a foreign country attacks your oil tankers, uses your aid money to kill your citizens, violates accord's, and orchestrates attacks on your embassies? Play golf?

War with Iran isn't inevitable, it's an artificially created situation caused by hawks in Washington demanding that nobody have greater regional influence than America.

Well you're half right...
War isn't inevitable. Trump had proven that twice now. Where you're wrong is by thinking it's all some war hawks in Washington driving it. You'd be closer to the power players if you looked at the federal reserve.

Who would you prefer to have greater regional influence?
ISIS?...
RUSSIA?...
CHINA?...

In most cases if it's not America's influence it's the influence of a murderous/misguided ideology/person.

originally posted by: network dude
originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: network dude

War, you will know it when you see it.

I guess that's where perspective is such a female dog... I already see war. Albeit still on a small scale, but war it is. It just hasn't been officially declared.

And the avoiding part, well, I feel like that will also be self evident. If Trump is able to move forward without escalating the conflict with Iran, and DE-ESCALATE the current tensions, I feel like that will be a win for both sides. I feel like if that is the outcome, it will be a good one and worthy of praise for all who were part of it happening.

That I can whole-heartedly agree with.

From where I'm sitting, Trump has no good options. He can only hope to determine his best option. He didn't start the conflicts with Iran, he just inherited them. And no matter what he does or does not do, someone won't be happy about it.

I don't know if you remember, but this started with Iran attacking the US embassy.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because I thought I "remembered" that, but morning reports are saying that it started with the rocket strike in Baghdad last month: The man whose death could spark WW3 is buried in Sacramento: Escalation of US-Iran conflict began after death of military contractor dad-of-two, 33, in rocket attack last month

And that would corroborate with the reports that Trump made the decision for the strike before the attack on the embassy. If true (and I have no reason to think otherwise), then the attack on the embassy just cinched Trump's decision. Iran doubled down, and Trump went ahead with his existing plans.

That was an act of war.

Definitely.

As much as I'm against war, I am also against looking weak and inept as a nation. It's an ugly fine line that needs to be balanced and I really don't think it's an easy one, with war hawks screaming in one ear and haters who claim they want peace screaming in the other.

It is a fine line. For me, the problem with the attack on the general et al is that it appears to be simply retaliation and revenge rather than a strategic military target. Iran's got plenty of other generals ready to step into his shoes, so to that extent, nothing was accomplished. It does not seem that this general was an imminent threat, or doing anything against American interests at the time, so again, this was not defensive or protective. On the other hand, for example, Trump could have targeted military facilities to impede their ability to make war on us, thus literally reducing future threats.

And in the end, if only I feel like he did a good job, it will be enough for me.

Yup! In the final analysis, we have to be true to ourselves -- to our own values and principles. If we're wrong, then circumstances and outcomes will knock some sense into us. And if we're right, circumstances and outcomes will confirm so.

Thank you for a very thoughtful response. You helped me work through a couple things in my own head. Much appreciated!

I assume everything that Iran has done and the lives of US citizens and servicemen lost to their proxies at their behest is all irrelevant? There have been acts of war, yes, but did Trump actually start the process? I think not. Dangerous game all round and someone has to pick their way through it. a reply to: gortex

originally posted by: 19Bones79

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: 19Bones79
Fake except for the very real tears I wept at both of those sites. Don't you mock my emotions. That's the lowest of blows.
You know nothing about me!
Go back to your mothers basement.

You sound like quite the patriot, I guess.

Who knew?

Absolutely nobody.

If Trump negotiates peace, the Trump haters and far left will demand that we go to war. That is how it is, there is no winning for Trump. If Russia and China do help to negotiate a decent Truce, the Democrats will say that Trump is colluding with Putin again. There is no winning for America because of this polarization that is going on. The Democrats are going nuts in this country.

a reply to: Boadicea

Thank you for locating and sharing that source.

Also, for those who don't click on links...before the embassy attack:

The attack inflamed tensions in the region with Iran's Supreme Leader warning America that Tuesday night's missile attack on two bases was merely 'a slap' and that such strikes are 'not enough' to punish the US.

For those that missed it...here it is again. Easy to add details to timeline to get a better idea on why Trump did what he did.
Bodicea's linked source posted above

a reply to: network dude

Just saw this:

'We do not seek escalation or war': Iran's foreign minister says it has 'concluded' retaliation after Tehran targets US troops in missile attacks as Trump tweets 'all is well' and says he will deliver statement today

Is Iran crying "uncle"? (I guess that would be "Uncle Sam," eh?) Encouraging for sure. Hopefully we'll find out more when Trump hold his press conference in a bit.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Yeah. A REAL man would have apologized and sent billions of dollars in cash to them.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: 19Bones79
Don't you mock my emotions. That's the lowest of blows.

You know nothing about me!

Seriously, you're going to play that card?

You - who in nearly every post (tries to) tell us what 'everybody knows'.

You - who professes to 'know' what the President of the United States 'knows'?

You are going to now feign outrage?

Well, here's me mocking your (feigned) emotions.

You call President Trump a coward repeatedly - and though you're welcome to your opinion? Your opinion mirrors just how petty and small you are.

From the moment Trump announced he was running for President - he's been under the gun. Every time he eats - he's taking a risk. In each moment he's in public - he's risking HIS LIFE FOR THIS COUNTRY.

And, to coin your oft used phrase (when you're trying to convince yourself and everyone else how right you are), that he puts his life at risk every single day for the United States of America?

'EVERYONE KNOWS' - that makes him a HERO.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: network dude

Just saw this:

'We do not seek escalation or war': Iran's foreign minister says it has 'concluded' retaliation after Tehran targets US troops in missile attacks as Trump tweets 'all is well' and says he will deliver statement today

Is Iran crying "uncle"? (I guess that would be "Uncle Sam," eh?) Encouraging for sure. Hopefully we'll find out more when Trump hold his press conference in a bit.

for it to work, both sides have to appear as if they won the battle. lives are of little concern when saving face is at stake.

I saw that early this morning and believe that was the signal that if this was dropped now, it would go away. I sure hope so. But I am still waiting for the early haters to explain how they would have dealt with all this. I suppose we will have to wait until CNN tells them.