Ukrainian 737 down in Iran

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
That was really more for those who always blame the world but never the US for terror. (Never doubt the power of the CIA though. Do you think a CIA guy has to pull the trigger?)

Might have been a pressure detonated bomb loaded on the plane at the airport.

I really hope it is just an terrible accident.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Do you think a CIA guy has to pull the trigger?

Oh, no, he can magic it to lock on a target and fire from his corner office in Langley.

Might have been a pressure detonated bomb loaded on the plane at the airport.

Doesn't explain what looks like shrapnel holes along the length.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

And absolutely doesn't explain the hole in the vert. stab.!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Kinda a jump to conclusions on the holes.

The CIA has recruited more than it share of men to do dirty deeds. History can be your friend.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I transfer from Qatar every month in route to Bangkok. People love filming planes. One thing I have gotten used to in my hundreds of hours in airports. Maybe just coincidence that he was filming.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That's what a hit by a MANPADS would look like.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yes, there are some SERIOUS aircraft people on ATS, and Zaph is one of their superstars.

For Zaph and Burgh:



🏅

Cheers

That's precisely why I came here this morning to read about the plane crash rather than one of the "news" sites.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Yeah, but previous hits with a MANPADS on similar sized aircraft resulted in damage but the aircraft landing. This thing came apart like something bigger hit it.

originally posted by: roadgravel
The CIA has recruited more than it share of men to do dirty deeds. History can be your friend.

Pretty sure it takes more than one person to operate and fire a SAM. Education is your friend.

a reply to: roadgravel

Those holes were caused by an outside impact. They're all going into the skin of the aircraft. That's not consistent with a bomb blast.

My bad. The Iranians obviously shot down out this jet to help their cause. It had to be their military.

Can we start the calls to nuke Iran again.



Carry one.

originally posted by: Bigburgh

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Aircraft wreckage appears to show shrapnel impacts.

Woa!

Looks like another hole with a tear, inside the yellow area of the logo, that’s not circled.

a reply to: roadgravel

You do understand that mistakes happen, right? I haven't seen anyone saying they did it deliberately. It certainly wouldn't be the first time an aircraft was shot down by mistake and it won't be the last.

a reply to: roadgravel

So here's the thing with the holes...

First, airliner crashes are indeed very violent events, but usually what you see is torn aluminum and broken honeycomb pieces, not pieces with holes in them.

So, could something else besides shrapnel or AAA have made the holes? Yes, BUT it would need to be something pretty stout, like say a protruding steel rebar anchored in concrete. And, if this was the case the punctured part would have been impaled on whatever that was and stuck there. Otherwise, the hole would have been a tear, and it wouldn't be indented, the hole would be pulled outwards. So, whatever made those holes went in one direction only, from the outside to the inside. A piece of debris tumbling across the ground would have tears, not holes.

Secondly, the tail section is relatively intact and not badly scorched which indicates it separated from the main wreckage shortly after impact. It's also not too badly damaged around the edges, so it doesn't look like it traveled across the ground very far from the impact site. Why would there be a hole, with no surrounding damage, which looks like it came from either below and behind or above and forward of the tail? Doesn't compute...unless it originated from an external explosive device.

a reply to: Starwatcher

Yes, but this individual was what appears to be miles from the airport. So he saw or heard something which made him turn in that direction.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Anyway, it is good to know it is now a known shoot down.

Who do we get to blame on this one.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

So he saw or heard something which made him turn in that direction.

Is that what the person has said?

a reply to: roadgravel

I wouldn't say it is a "known" fact at this point, but rather it appears likely. Especially given Iran's refusal to give up the FDR and CVR. These would both pretty conclusively point to what happened in short order.

As far as blame is concerned, I would say it was likely an accident by a missile battery operator with an itchy trigger finger.

ETA - Just an opinion at this point, based on limited information.

a reply to: roadgravel

No, if you read the posts which led to this, you would see I was asking a question.

Why are you being so testy?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Since when do countries always give up the boxes? If i were Iran, at this point I wouldn't. I would get other countries to be there to verify the data.