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Trump hate has jumped the shark.

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posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: network dude

Interesting thread.

So, I'm not mourning the death of the guy. He was a bad one. The world is better off without him. I'm not sure that its solved anything, in fact I'm leaning towards the idea that its made things worse longer term.

As an aside - You mention Obama - You say he was an apologist and yet he did authorise the Bin Laden take down after all, which was - frankly a much bigger deal than Soleimani. So how can you say that with a straight face? - surely the drone strikes Obama's administration carried out were justified and he wasn't some weak minded pussy as the more rabid right wingers in the states would have everyone believe? Whats the diference?

Getting back on track.... a question for you.

Did Gulf War 1 deter anyone in the region from killing each other? Did Gulf War 2 achieve that aim? What about the ops in Libya and Syria? What about the fight against ISIS? Has that stopped people killing each other? The ops in Sudan and Afghanistan? Taking out the Al Qaeda leadership?

'Cause it strikes me that none of it has worked. People are still killing each other. Take out one asshole and another pops up.

Why?

Has it occurred to you that death descending from 20,000ft isn't exactly the best way to win over the hearts and minds of people? It's kind of difficult to build up a fan base out of people who are wondering if the next time they step out of the door (or stand in the window...) they are going to suddenly be in a million pieces across a quarter mile - not necessarily because they were targeted but maybe if the intel was wrong, or they (or their family) were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time?

See where I'm coming from?

This isn't about Trump per se for me personally when I look at the issue. Its more about the long game. Forcing people's backs against the wall just leads them to lash out.

The long term consequences of this, and other actions are the main cause for concern. There is a perpetual cycle of violence and 'they started it' is being claimed by both sides and does NOTHING to resolve the long term problem or long term resentments.

And peoples mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters will just keep on dying because no one wants to break the cycle.

You scream 'Murica!' They scream 'Great Satan!'

Everyone just screams.
I agree with much of what you say. Nothing we’ve done has kept people in the region from killing each other. Frankly, I don’t care about that anymore and just want us out of there. I do think we had no choice at the time but to eject Iraq from Kuwait and greatly reduce Saddam’s power, otherwise he would have threatened much of the world’s oil supply (and ours at the time). He also would likely have nukes by now without our intervention. That would have been a nightmare. Where we really went wrong was the second Gulf war and the deposing of Saddam. That opened Iraq up to Iranian meddling. Obama’s involvement in the Arab Spring proved disastrous, because they just aren’t ready for democracy and perhaps never will be. Taking out the al Qaeda, Taliban and ISIS leadership was and will remain necessary. These people mean us harm and won’t hesitate to explode a nuke in a U.S. city if they get their hands on one. So we’ll have to remain involved wherever they may be just to keep a lid on their mischief making. That shouldn’t require a huge or perhaps even a permanent presence, but will require special ops forces, drones, cruise missiles and the occasional manned stealth aircraft. Thankfully, we don’t rely on Persian Gulf oil anymore and can become completely energy independent if we have the will. Of course, Europe, India and the Far East will still need that oil, but why should we be the ones to spend so much treasure and shed so much blood to keep the Strait of Hormuz open? Let the rest of the world assume that responsibility and see how they like it. I just wonder how much our loyal allies in Europe and Asia would like it if we quit our world police role? I’m sure China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and jihadis everywhere would like it.
edit on 7-1-2020 by Scapegrace because: Typo




posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: network dude
Your assessment is accurate.
IMO this will not get better but only worse if/when the president is re elected in November.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 09:38 AM
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One thing’s for sure; Iran is highly dependent on oil exports, which accounted for 56 percent of its exports in 2018 and earned it $60 billion. We can easily block all their oil exports if they get out of hand; then they’ll be in a bind.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 09:42 AM
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Or put pressure on the countries importing Iran's oil.

originally posted by: Scapegrace
One thing’s for sure; Iran is highly dependent on oil exports, which accounted for 56 percent of its exports in 2018 and earned it $60 billion. We can easily block all their oil exports if they get out of hand; then they’ll be in a bind.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 09:43 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: network dude


Then I would send in some diplomats to work out a deal or just back channel a deal.

After the deal is done call it a win for peace.


Didn't we do that under Obama?

I mean, even the UN (allegedly the golden child for you guys) was reporting that Iran was violating the terms of the infamous nuclear deal.

Yeeeeeeeaaaaahhhhh. Its just rinse and repeat with you guys, from Chamberlain to Carter to Obama. Appeasement and can kicking.




And it's just shoot first and ask questions later, something in between these 2 extremes would be good.


Sometimes you don't get that option.

Why are all of you crying over a guy that a few months back was killing and torturing female protests in Iran?




It's not about who was killed it's about how it was done, this is Going to come at great cost, likely in the form of American military folk and possibly even civilians. It was a dumb as # move.
So when we had this terrorist murderer in the crosshairs we should have let him go on his merry way?



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: vonclod

So now I'm no different than a goat-humping murderer, but at least, if I killed several hundred people I know you'd have my back.

When I say "you" I'm talking your govt. You think the U'S' has not f'ed up a lot of innocent peoples lives?

I don't have his back, I think this was a dumb move..if you don't understand that.
You know, the USA is the only nation willing and able to oppose evil regimes no matter where they are or how powerful they are. This includes Germany, Japan, Russia and China. We either helped defeat them or have kept in check, much to the benefit of the rest of the world. And we’ve opposed lesser powers such as North Korea, North Vietnam and Iraq when they invaded or tried to subvert their neighbors. Have we made huge mistakes and screwed up royally hundreds of times? Yes, we have, but then none of this stuff is easy, cheap or uncomplicated, otherwise others would assume more of the responsibility. And the rest of the world just loves to criticize everything we do; they always think they could have done things better than us. Well I’d love to see them try; it would save us a fortune and lots of grief. Have you ever reflected on the nature of the regimes we’ve gone to war with since WWII? Do any of them strike you as being peaceful or respectful of human rights? If we wage war on a nation or regime, you can be sure it’s richly deserved. We don’t invade democracies.
edit on 7-1-2020 by Scapegrace because: Typo



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: Scapegrace

You make a lot of good points.. and one thing you can say for president Trump is he is very transparent and direct through his tweets and after watching another small vid of him complaining about John Kerry continually telling Iran what to do and Iran won’t communicate with him...it seems his only way to communicate with some of these leaders who refuse to give him time to try and talk.

In that same clip I saw it was clear that he did not want war, and would desperately like to talk with Iran’s leaders. But nope.. they choose to talk to Kerry instead ( and probably Obama behind doors as well ).

Now I understand why he uses Twitter so much.

... and yes.. he did an outstanding job with North Korea.. should have been nominated for Nobel peace prize for that accomplishment ..



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: fleabit

Trump is bad for hitting back when the US embassy was attacked. If he didn't hit back, he would be called weak.


There were many options on the table - he just chose to select the most extreme response, and that is on Trump. Why does his base continually act like the dude is the next Messiah? What.. he isn't possible of making bad decisions? Look.. it was a bad decision. But whatever.. I know no matter what, his people will support him, even if he waffles on his own supposed plan to get the U.S. out of the middle east.

Pulling out of Syria and abandoning the Kurds? Yay! Bringing troops home baby! Sending more troops to the middle east and attacking Iran? Yay! Literally doesn't matter what he does.


I think you are missing a tiny piece of this puzzle. A thing happened, that provoked this, Trump didn't wake up and say, I think I'd like to kill a muther flucker today. The US embassy was attacked. I don't believe any US people asked for that to happen, and if we did nothing in response, what would stop future attacks?

It's like you have to lie to yourself to make you not realize you are as slow as you seem.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:23 AM
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edit on 7-1-2020 by Gandalf77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Scapegrace

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: vonclod

So now I'm no different than a goat-humping murderer, but at least, if I killed several hundred people I know you'd have my back.

When I say "you" I'm talking your govt. You think the U'S' has not f'ed up a lot of innocent peoples lives?

I don't have his back, I think this was a dumb move..if you don't understand that.


We don’t invade democracies.


No, we typically send in the CIA to sponsor a coup and overthrow DEMOCRATICALLY elected governments that, heaven forbid, decided to use their own natural resources for the good of the country and its people, rather than the corporate interests of transnational American companies. We like to put in place ruthless authoritarian regimes that will repress the populace and keep the raw materials coming. Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua, IRAN.... That's been the plan since the end of WW2, and it included screwing over our allies; take a look at what happened in Greece, for example. And Vietnam was no well-intentioned mistake; it was a result of the foreign policy shaped by that planning.

We talk a mean game of "democracy" when it suits our purposes.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Just withdraw.

Call up any outstanding loans, close embassies, withdraw troops, shut businesses, stop payments, advise travelers, cease trade.

Grant them the sovereignty that you expect them to grant you.

Reinforce home defenses and put the resources and money saved into into a stronger economy, or, if you must spend overseas, into allied and friendly economies.
I totally agree, much to my surprise.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
Time will tell if POTUS and his advisers made the right call, IMO he/they did. The carnage of War really seems to hurt Trump's Heart , when he spoke about how difficult it was to see the reactions of the Loved one's when they saw the coffins that contained their children, spouses, parents, coming off the plane, he was clearly shaken. With everything thrown at this man, this is what he says is the hardest part of being POTUS for him and in my gut, I believe him.

Our Military has been used and abused by a bunch of Treasonous Criminals and Trump's not putting up with it under his watch anymore. He took out this Monster, who was in the thick of continued Murder and Maiming of Americans and innocents throughout the ME / World. He's also exposing and taking down all the Domestic Criminals who have enabled this terrorist for 20+ years and gotten Rich betraying our Troops and our Country.

If ever there was a time to be non-partisan it's NOW ! It's kinda like divorced parents that need to put up a United front for the well-being of their Children, America is our Baby and we need to protect and Love it to keep it Healthy and Happy.


Now this is one of the best responses I've read so far. I think you hit the nail directly on the head and I feel the same. But sadly, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans will ever admit they've made horrific mistakes by corrupting our government and wasting the lives of so many of our soldiers. Trump can't do it by himself and once he's out of office it'll pick back up again, probably with a vengeance.

Yes, and even if he’s re-elected the dems, news media, courts, social media, Google, Hollywood, academia and neocons will fight and sabotage everything he tries to do. The nation and world would be so much better off if he had more support. I believe he wants everyone to be prosperous and happy, just not at the expense of U.S. citizens.
edit on 7-1-2020 by Scapegrace because: Typos



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 12:33 PM
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trump is really good at foreign policy



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: ketsuko
And that R&D can be for petroleum alternatives like industrial hemp seed oil that we already know can 100% replace petroleum as fuel, plastics, paints and varnishes, etc?

Let American farmers become the oil sheiks of the 21st century. That way the entire Middle East has nothing as a commodity on the world stage.

I like it. I like it a lot...




posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: Scapegrace

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: network dude


Then I would send in some diplomats to work out a deal or just back channel a deal.

After the deal is done call it a win for peace.


Didn't we do that under Obama?

I mean, even the UN (allegedly the golden child for you guys) was reporting that Iran was violating the terms of the infamous nuclear deal.

Yeeeeeeeaaaaahhhhh. Its just rinse and repeat with you guys, from Chamberlain to Carter to Obama. Appeasement and can kicking.




And it's just shoot first and ask questions later, something in between these 2 extremes would be good.


Sometimes you don't get that option.

Why are all of you crying over a guy that a few months back was killing and torturing female protests in Iran?




It's not about who was killed it's about how it was done, this is Going to come at great cost, likely in the form of American military folk and possibly even civilians. It was a dumb as # move.
So when we had this terrorist murderer in the crosshairs we should have let him go on his merry way?




Look team America was a funny show, wasn't supposed to be art imitating life.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 04:29 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: network dude


Then I would send in some diplomats to work out a deal or just back channel a deal.

After the deal is done call it a win for peace.


Didn't we do that under Obama?

I mean, even the UN (allegedly the golden child for you guys) was reporting that Iran was violating the terms of the infamous nuclear deal.

Yeeeeeeeaaaaahhhhh. Its just rinse and repeat with you guys, from Chamberlain to Carter to Obama. Appeasement and can kicking.




And it's just shoot first and ask questions later, something in between these 2 extremes would be good.


Sometimes you don't get that option.

Why are all of you crying over a guy that a few months back was killing and torturing female protests in Iran?




It's not about who was killed it's about how it was done, this is Going to come at great cost, likely in the form of American military folk and possibly even civilians. It was a dumb as # move.


And how else should it have been done?

In an official wartime capacity? Or do you suggest not at all, even though the man has already been a part of killing American military folk and civilians.

And that cost is always going to be a risk. The men and women at Pearl Harbor were no where near a front line, and what instigated the attack wasn't a physical attack.

The dumb as # move here, would have been to do nothing and talk with people that don't give a # about what we say or do anyway.
And I assume you'd call it a dumb as # move if we leave the region entirely to sort itself out, eh?
edit on 7-1-2020 by Wardaddy454 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 04:39 PM
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“How it was done”

It was done correctly and in accordance with ALL international laws and agreements

To say otherwise is dumb as #



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: Breakthestreak
“How it was done”

It was done correctly and in accordance with ALL international laws and agreements

To say otherwise is dumb as #


Indeed. And if anything, Obama set the precedent of not seeking congressional approval after Libya and the some 2,800 drone strikes.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 05:27 PM
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The Left has sided with an authoritarian religious extremist government over our President while at the same time comparing Iranians to the religious right in
America that they hate so much. Is that cognitive dissonance ?



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 05:34 PM
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Democrats tonight: Yippie! Iran is killing Americans.



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