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Trump hate has jumped the shark.

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posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Scapegrace




We don’t invade democracies.

Bullsh%t

None of what happens has sweet F.A. to do with human rights. It's either strategic placement(US bases) or oil!!!

Iran had a DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt in 53 that was coup'd by the U.S...why you ask..not for human rights. I wonder why they don't like you.


edit on 7-1-2020 by vonclod because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: network dude

From where I stand, it looks like Trump said he was not interested in war, but wasn't competent enough to keep us out of it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that killing an Iranian top general would result in retaliation, not peace. There are other, more effective, ways to deal with enemies than provoking them if you want peace. Just imo.

Provoking an enemy is a classic way to goad them into war, in fact. I don't understand how Trump doesn't get this. That much is fairly basic.

Based on his track record, I don't see how Trump could navigate a war with Iran successfully. We will probably end up worse for it.
edit on 07pmTue, 07 Jan 2020 19:03:43 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: network dude

From where I stand, it looks like Trump said he was not interested in war, but wasn't competent enough to keep us out of it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that killing an Iranian top general would result in retaliation, not peace. There are other, more effective, ways to deal with enemies than provoking them if you want peace. Just imo.

Provoking an enemy is a classic way to goad them into war, in fact. I don't understand how Trump doesn't get this. That much is fairly basic.

Based on his track record, I don't see how Trump could navigate a war with Iran successfully. We will probably end up]Why do people insist that it was all trump’s fault and that it would have been better to just let the enemy storm the embassy and mb we can throw in 1.2 billion bucks as an added incentive...oh pardon me... it was 150 billion $$$ Obama sent Iran.
I’m hearing reported right now that the state of Texas is getting an uptick in cyberattacks from Iran ... many per minute .....
I suppose you think Iran is justified.... they have been aggressive and Trump took action. It is sickening that Democrats are siding with Iran ... simply stomach turning. What a bunch of traitorous hypocrites.
edit on 7-1-2020 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:45 PM
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Registered: 8-6-2015 Location: New Zealand Mood: Member was on ATS 28 minutes ago 3,750 103 23,747 146 95 posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 12:49 AM link quote reply I just love how these people on the left are decrying the killing of this terrorist with the exact same vigour as when they screeched and yelped about the killing of osama bin laden. The calls for obongo to be arrested for war crimes and the accusations of ‘murderer’ from the left were loud and clear back then
a reply to: Breakthestreak

I don’t really remember that ... I just remember conspiracy theories that it wasn’t really Bin Ladin and that he was already dead years ago....
that works of course make a Democrat Leftists more consistent with their support of terrorist enemy combatants ...



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 10:49 PM
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originally posted by: nataliep
trump is really good at foreign policy


More than that. It's looking like IRAN is helping him with material for a really powerful campaign re-election commercial.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: DBCowboy
You talk as if Americans at home, going about their business, got attacked. When you meddle in other countries affairs, on their soil, or their backyard, you accept risk do you not? How many innocent civies have been killed in Iraq?

Don't act like y'all were just mindin your business.

Soleimani should of been arrested and tried.

Assuming you’re not an American (please excuse me if I’m wrong), would you have your countrymen risk their lives to arrest this dangerous, ruthless terrorist? Do you think he would have been taken alive? You would have to have a team of elite commandos positioned secretly at the airport before he arrived; how likely is it they could have done that without being detected and possibly massacred? The only other options I can think of for making an arrest would be to have helicopters with commandos aboard flying out of earshot, waiting to swoop in on his entourage, which might have had heavy machine guns or RPGs for all we know. Helicopters, as you know, are highly vulnerable to groundfire and RPGs. I doubt whether ground vehicles could have waited nearby without being spotted, but even if they did they’d have to race in, probably with guns blazing and very possibly killing the man you think deserved a trial. Arresting him doesn’t seem like it was ever a feasible option; not without losing a lot of American soldiers and killing many of Soleimani’s party.



posted on Jan, 7 2020 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: network dude

From where I stand, it looks like Trump said he was not interested in war, but wasn't competent enough to keep us out of it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that killing an Iranian top general would result in retaliation, not peace. There are other, more effective, ways to deal with enemies than provoking them if you want peace. Just imo.

Provoking an enemy is a classic way to goad them into war, in fact. I don't understand how Trump doesn't get this. That much is fairly basic.

Based on his track record, I don't see how Trump could navigate a war with Iran successfully. We will probably end up worse for it.

“Based on his track record”

He’s done pretty damn good so far at running the United States. Thousands of times better than his predecessor.

If the President is directly involved in a war, he’ll be successful. As always.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 12:06 AM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: network dude

withdraw all of your troops globally and remove all military bases , radar sites etc , missile bases and go back to being isolationist
save some extreme cash from military budget

and make america better (not great , no country is truly great )

Maybe , maybe just once america can go a full year without fighting a war somewhere


Sounds good to me, but the USA won’t be coming to anyone’s rescue under those circumstances. Who will restrain China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and the jihadis?

Europe, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore would have to drastically increase defense spending and build up their own nuclear umbrellas if they want to remain free. So would many Third World nations that would find it much harder to increase defense spending. Or they could become kowtowing puppets of China and Russia. Makes no difference to me or a lot of Americans. We’re tired of the expense, casualties and ingratitude. We don’t gain a damn thing out of being world cop except stability for international commerce. Yet we’re the least dependent on foreign trade and imported oil of any First World nation, and no one is going to invade us. By the way, where are you from if you don’t mind my asking?



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 12:21 AM
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originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: ketsuko

How about if Trump frees up some massive money for R&D by pulling it from the cash spent on troops in Iraq since they have to go as well as State Department funding of an Embassy. Oh and foreign financial aid that won’t need to be spent. And that R&D can be for petroleum alternatives like industrial hemp seed oil that we already know can 100% replace petroleum as fuel, plastics, paints and varnishes, etc?

Let American farmers become the oil sheiks of the 21st century. That way the entire Middle East has nothing as a commodity on the world stage.


Damn, that is a great idea!

The industrial hemp makes the CBD too so it would be a way to get more out of the hemp plants.

We would get fiber from the branches for paper and we wouldn't need trees!

We could make clothes from those fibers.

We could make oil from seeds and CBD from the leaves.

Wouldn't leave much but a compost pile would take care of that.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: network dude


Then I would send in some diplomats to work out a deal or just back channel a deal.

After the deal is done call it a win for peace.


Didn't we do that under Obama?

I mean, even the UN (allegedly the golden child for you guys) was reporting that Iran was violating the terms of the infamous nuclear deal.

Yeeeeeeeaaaaahhhhh. Its just rinse and repeat with you guys, from Chamberlain to Carter to Obama. Appeasement and can kicking.




And it's just shoot first and ask questions later, something in between these 2 extremes would be good.


Sometimes you don't get that option.

Why are all of you crying over a guy that a few months back was killing and torturing female protests in Iran?




It's not about who was killed it's about how it was done, this is Going to come at great cost, likely in the form of American military folk and possibly even civilians. It was a dumb as # move.


Is it about he should still be alive for you I wonder?

Should a murderer rapist who controls a large group of people live?

Should we let him keep killing Americans when we know where he is an it isn't on his home soil?



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 12:32 AM
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originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: Scapegrace

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: vonclod

So now I'm no different than a goat-humping murderer, but at least, if I killed several hundred people I know you'd have my back.

When I say "you" I'm talking your govt. You think the U'S' has not f'ed up a lot of innocent peoples lives?

I don't have his back, I think this was a dumb move..if you don't understand that.


We don’t invade democracies.


No, we typically send in the CIA to sponsor a coup and overthrow DEMOCRATICALLY elected governments that, heaven forbid, decided to use their own natural resources for the good of the country and its people, rather than the corporate interests of transnational American companies. We like to put in place ruthless authoritarian regimes that will repress the populace and keep the raw materials coming. Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua, IRAN.... That's been the plan since the end of WW2, and it included screwing over our allies; take a look at what happened in Greece, for example. And Vietnam was no well-intentioned mistake; it was a result of the foreign policy shaped by that planning.

We talk a mean game of "democracy" when it suits our purposes.
I agree we shouldn’t have gotten involved in overthrowing Mossadegh, Allende and the banana republics. But we were understandably paranoid about communist influence at the time; the Soviets had given us ample reason to fear them and were actively subverting governments and people around the world. In retrospect, their fear of us was also understandable given the history of Russia. But I stand by my statement that we don’t invade democracies. Our major wars since WWII have been against North Korea, North Vietnam and Iraq, with minor wars against Panama and Grenada. None of these regimes were shining examples of human rights.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 12:52 AM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Scapegrace




We don’t invade democracies.

Bullsh%t

None of what happens has sweet F.A. to do with human rights. It's either strategic placement(US bases) or oil!!!

Iran had a DEMOCRATICALLY elected govt in 53 that was coup'd by the U.S...why you ask..not for human rights. I wonder why they don't like you.

That was 67 years ago, but yes, we did overthrow him at the behest of the British. We could have and should have declined, but we were in a worldwide struggle with the Soviet Union and it was the height of the Cold War. It was thought the commies would eventually gain control of Iran, and we had just finished a horrific war in Korea. Who knows how Iran would have turned out if we hadn’t intervened? Its neighbor to the north, the USSR, had occupied much of Iran only eight years earlier during WWII. And as we saw several times in Eastern Europe and Afghanistan in the 1950s, 1960s and 1980s, the Soviets weren’t squeamish about invading neighboring nations. Perhaps Iran would have become a thriving, vibrant democracy, or perhaps it would have become a satellite of the Soviets. Who knows? But under the shah, brutal as he was to opponents, women had more freedom and education than they ever imagined they’d have, so it wasn’t all bad.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: Scapegrace

You have made fair points.

It remains to be seen if this was imminently needed, but I guess he was on a list anyway.

I'm not wanting to fight over this guy, he's dead..I just don't want to see the world burn.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 01:00 AM
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originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: network dude

From where I stand, it looks like Trump said he was not interested in war, but wasn't competent enough to keep us out of it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that killing an Iranian top general would result in retaliation, not peace. There are other, more effective, ways to deal with enemies than provoking them if you want peace. Just imo.

Provoking an enemy is a classic way to goad them into war, in fact. I don't understand how Trump doesn't get this. That much is fairly basic.

Based on his track record, I don't see how Trump could navigate a war with Iran successfully. We will probably end up worse for it.
So Soleimani’s role in killing Americans wasn’t enough to “goad” us in your opinion? I guess we’re supposed to just sit back and take it. Iran has been goading the hell out of us since Khomeini took over in 1979. One thing after the other and we’ve been very restrained in our reactions. Much too restrained — until now.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 01:04 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Just withdraw.

Call up any outstanding loans, close embassies, withdraw troops, shut businesses, stop payments, advise travelers, cease trade.

Grant them the sovereignty that you expect them to grant you.

Reinforce home defenses and put the resources and money saved into into a stronger economy, or, if you must spend overseas, into allied and friendly economies.


How about lets make that one grant them what is right. And since they don't know how to do that for others we have issues. What I expect from them by their history is to witness from the afar the taking someones life over religious sovereignty and attempts to control the Caliphate/'fifedoms' for lack of a better word.

edit on 8-1-2020 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Scapegrace

You have made fair points.

It remains to be seen if this was imminently needed, but I guess he was on a list anyway.

I'm not wanting to fight over this guy, he's dead..I just don't want to see the world burn.

I’m sure your motives are honorable, but we see the world in different ways. I’m cynical about human beings and consider this to be a dangerous world. I suspect you have more faith and trust in the goodness of people, which is an admirable thing. I do think the vast majority of people are good and decent; it’s that relatively small number of evil doers that ruin it for the rest of us. Anyway, it’s after one in the morning and I’m babbling and can’t type apparently. I apologize if I’ve been too sarcastic, which I’m prone to be in political debates!
edit on 8-1-2020 by Scapegrace because: Typos



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 01:26 AM
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a reply to: Scapegrace
You are right, the Brits are responsible at least as much. It was about oil, and commies! a 2 fer.



posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 01:31 AM
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a reply to: Scapegrace
Thanks, my faith in humanity is fluid..I do hope for the best.

All good, I should apologise, I can be snarkey and it doesn't add to the conversation, it was pretty heated last night.








posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 07:12 AM
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a reply to: network dude


Agreed. I've said it before, Trump is old school. He doesn't want a war but he will hit back if you take American lives. As a non American I can tell you that what I see is a man that is bringing back respect to a tainted office against all odds.

Also, I love the fact that you can label the opposition to everything he does what they are and not get the post removed.

They are indeed assholes.





posted on Jan, 8 2020 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: Justoneman

Or silage for some farm animals



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