Is the Pillar of Cloud in the Bible the same as cigar shaped U.F.O.'s today?

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: neoholographic
Again, there's no interpretation, there's no mystery, the Lord was in a pillar of cloud and we call them cigar shaped U.F.O.'s today.

No, you are calling them cigar shaped UFOs, I would never call "pillar" to something horizontal.

Who's to say that a "UFO" couldn't invert itself?

Here's more:

Zechariah 5 - 1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

A flying roll!!

It was about the length of a house at 35 feet and 18 feet in width. Let's look at some things we call rolls.

Sweet roll


Egg roll


Breakfast roll


Notice the familiar shape??

Let's look at a scroll.





Now, let's look at some cigar shaped U.F.O.'s













Cigar, Roll, Pillar, Snake and Cylinder shaped U.F.O.'s

It's clear, these are the same U.F.O.'s from the Exodus. Zechariah saw them. Ezekiel, The Disciples and we see them today! It gets even deeper! Look what happened when God made Eve.

Genesis 2

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

I think a rib represents DNA and this is some kind of genetic engineering. This is truly amazing when you think about it. Why didn't God just say Abracadabra! And then Eve appears? If God uses Supernatural magic to do things, why did he:

A. Put Adam into a deep sleep first

B. Then did the surgery

C. HERE'S THE KICKER! God closed him up afterwards!

My Sister recently had surgery and when the Doctor explained things he talked about how they had a little trouble putting her under (deep sleep) but after that things went well and they performed the surgery (Adam's rib) and then CLOSED HER UP and took her back to her room.

Again, why would God clearly carry out a surgery on Adam? Why wouldn't he just magically make Eve appear?

I think it's obvious. The Bible is clearly dealing with extraterrestrial or extradimensional visitation. These cigar, roll, pillar shaped U.F.O.'s are EVERYWHERE! There's thousands of pictures and videos of them.

I can understand why the professional debunker, pseudoskeptic, atheist or materialist will not like this because it makes the Bible all too real. They want to say everything's just magical metaphors because it makes them feel comfortable if they can say the Bible is a fairy tale. The Bible is far from a fairy tale and is some of the most profound evidence of extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation

a reply to: neoholographic

Though i like conspiracies and speculation, here are some depictions of what is described in the verses concerning pillar of fire and pillar of Smoke mentioned in EXO. Just so to put things in perspective and not confusing them with Unidentified flying object (UFO).

1.

2.

3.

Also it´s worth mentioning the word, that is being used for Pillar in LXX is " Νεφέλη ".

EXO 40:34καὶ ἐκάλυψεν ἡ νεφέλη τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ μαρτυρίου καὶ δόξης κυρίου ἐπλήσθη ἡ σκηνή

EXO 40:35 καὶ οὐκ ἠδυνάσθη Μωυσῆς εἰσελθεῗν εἰς τὴν σκηνὴν τοῦ μαρτυρίου ὅτι ἐπεσκίαζεν ἐπ᾽ αὐτὴν ἡ νεφέλη καὶ δόξης κυρίου ἐπλήσθη ἡ σκηνή

That word when used in astronomy is an interstellar cloud of dust, hydrogen, helium and other ionized gases. Here is an example photo that looks like a pillar(somewhat).

4.

The verses and incidents you provide as proof are not Unidentified flying objects (UFOS). It´s similar to the stories of Alexander The Great with the “flying shields” which played such a decisive role in a key battle. One would expect to find it mentioned by Plutarch, Quintus Curtius and all the other historians of Antiquity who wrote extensively about Alexander the Great, and yet none have been found.

Until ufologists and ancient astronaut writers find legitimate historical accounts that back up the alleged UFO incidents of Alexander the Great, the Bible, those stories should not be repeated as factual as to not pollute the already fragile framework of ufology in my opinion.

Peace

a reply to: neoholographic

Zechariah 5 - 1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

A flying roll!!

Actually the text says "Flying Scroll" and nor a "Flying roll".

I looked again, and there before me was a flying scroll.

2 He asked me, “What do you see?”

I answered, “I see a flying scroll, twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide.[a]”

What that scroll represents i highlighted below

3 And he said to me, “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4 The Lord Almighty declares, ‘I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.’”

Peace

a reply to: Seed76

LOL!

You have to be kidding!

Look, I understand why people want the Bible to be a book of fairy tales full of magical metaphors. This way the atheist, material, pseudoskeptic can say it has nothing to do with things that's real.

So God is appearing in some magical cloud floating around like Aladdin on a magical carpet LOL.

If the Bible is talking about things like U.F.O's and genetic engineering, then it hits close to home and becomes all too real. Why call it a cloudy pillar if it's just cloudy? That makes no sense.

Again, they knew exactly what they were describing just like Zechariah and the flying roll.

I know it's convenient for some to think God was in some magical cloud that just acted like a U.F.O. Know, they were describing a Pillar as in a column that holds up a building. Not some magic smokey cloud. Just like God didn't magically make Eve appear, he put Adam in a deep sleep and then closed him up like Doctors do in surgery every day.

Again, I know it's easier for some to turn the Bible into a fairy tale of metaphors but it's clearly describing extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation.

Josef Blumrich, he NASA Engineer who set out to debunk Chariots of the Gods, read the Book of Ezekiel and said this:

My own involvement in the subject of extraterrestrial visitors began with a vehemently negative attitude. Having worked as an aeronautical engineer since 1934—first in the design and analysis of aircraft, then for the past fifteen years in the design and development of both launching vehicles and spacecraft—I was firmly entrenched in the camp of those who declare visits from outer space to be an impossibility.

It was in this frame of mind that I began to read Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods? His claim that the prophet Ezekiel had encounters with spaceships prompted me to read the biblical book of Ezekiel carefully with the intention of proving von Däniken wrong. By the time I had got to verse 7 of the very first chapter, however, I found myself interpreting a description of the landings legs of some kind of flying vehicle: "Their legs were straight. and the soles of their feet were round and they sparkled like burnished bronze." Having designed and tested such structures myself, I could not deny that it was possible to read in this a direct, yet simple, technical description.

The contrast of that evidently clear passage with the quite hazy pictures sketched by the rest of the chapter made me realize that the prophet could not have known what it was he had seen, or could not have understood it. I realize the necessary consequences of this: the prophet could only describe his encounters with space vehicles and their crews in the terms available to him—with words and comparisons familiar to him and his contemporaries. So I began taking Ezekiel seriously, in an engineering sense.

www.spaceshipsofezekiel.com...

He wrote the book Spaceships of Ezekiel.

What you're saying is just wrong. When they just used the word cloud, they used that word but they established they weren't talking about some magical cloud from the sky when they used the word pillar. For example, Exodus 14:19 says this:

19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

The LXX translation says this:

ἐξῆρεν δὲ ὁ ἄγγελος τοῦ θεοῦ ὁ προπορευόμενος τῆς παρεμβολῆς τῶν υἱῶν Ισραηλ καὶ ἐπορεύθη ἐκ τῶν ὄπισθεν ἐξῆρεν δὲ καὶ ὁ στῦλος τῆς νεφέλης ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτῶν καὶ ἔστη ἐκ τῶν ὀπίσω αὐτῶν

The word στῦλος means this:

stylos

a pillar

a column

pillars of fire i.e. flames rising like pillars

a prop or support

www.blueletterbible.org...

So, they call it a cloud because that and birds is all they see in the sky but he tells you it looks like a stylos or a pillar.





I know you want to make it mystical and magical but it's not.

"as they were looking on, Jesus was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight...He will also come back in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”"

Acts 1:9-11


"Elijah went up in a whirlwind, to the heavens."

2 kings 2:11



Whirlwind in the second verse can also be translated as storm. I would suppose clouds may represent higher dimension realities... but we only see them as water vapor in the air. Just like a shadow is only a glimpse of what the 3D object is, maybe clouds are only a glimpse of what their 4D reality is...

Emphasis also on Jesus "coming back the way he left", indicates he will come back through clouds. My guess would be that UFOs are artificially created extra-dimensional technology, whereas clouds are natural extra-dimensional realities. Especially since clouds are:

1) involved in Jesus ascension (and eventual return)
2) God talked through them
3) Elijah ascended through them
4) Moses was transported to the top of a mountain on a cloud (mountain maybe referring to a high place of consciousness)

Interestingly enough, it was Elijah, Moses and Jesus who were there for when the disciples entered into the cloud during Jesus's transfiguration when God talked to them. The disciples thought to build houses for Elijah and Moses, but that was silly because they were living extra-dimensional consciousness and were no longer in need of earthly homes, and manifest in the clouds.

I would suppose that the clouds are what take the ascended masters to join the next dimensional realms that Elijah, Moses, Jesus and company are inhabiting

originally posted by: neoholographic
Here's more:

Zechariah 5 - 1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

A flying roll!!

It was about the length of a house at 35 feet and 18 feet in width. Let's look at some things we call rolls.

Sweet roll

Egg roll

Maybe it was a flying fruitcake instead of solar balloon. You know about fruitcakes... dont you neoholographic

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I figured this would be your response after I destroyed your argument.

originally posted by: cooperton
"as they were looking on, Jesus was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight...He will also come back in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”"

Acts 1:9-11


"Elijah went up in a whirlwind, to the heavens."

2 kings 2:11



Whirlwind in the second verse can also be translated as storm. I would suppose clouds may represent higher dimension realities... but we only see them as water vapor in the air. Just like a shadow is only a glimpse of what the 3D object is, maybe clouds are only a glimpse of what their 4D reality is...

Emphasis also on Jesus "coming back the way he left", indicates he will come back through clouds. My guess would be that UFOs are artificially created extra-dimensional technology, whereas clouds are natural extra-dimensional realities. Especially since clouds are:

1) involved in Jesus ascension (and eventual return)
2) God talked through them
3) Elijah ascended through them
4) Moses was transported to the top of a mountain on a cloud (mountain maybe referring to a high place of consciousness)

Interestingly enough, it was Elijah, Moses and Jesus who were there for when the disciples entered into the cloud during Jesus's transfiguration when God talked to them. The disciples thought to build houses for Elijah and Moses, but that was silly because they were living extra-dimensional consciousness and were no longer in need of earthly homes, and manifest in the clouds.

I would suppose that the clouds are what take the ascended masters to join the next dimensional realms that Elijah, Moses, Jesus and company are inhabiting

Good points and that's interesting about clouds being 3D representations of 4D objects.

originally posted by: neoholographic

Egg roll

Genesis 2

21 And the Lord God caused a deep Egg Roll to fall upon Adam.

"Wake up, jerk!" He boomed, "Today we're gonna build a chick..."

I've always said the Bible lacks a sense of humour.

originally posted by: Akragon
Who's to say that a "UFO" couldn't invert itself?

I suppose they could, but that wouldn't change the meaning of "pillar".

a reply to: ArMaP

true... but moses followed a "pillar" of flame and cloud through the desert

originally posted by: neoholographic
I can understand why the professional debunker, pseudoskeptic, atheist or materialist will not like this because it makes the Bible all too real. They want to say everything's just magical metaphors because it makes them feel comfortable if they can say the Bible is a fairy tale. The Bible is far from a fairy tale and is some of the most profound evidence of extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation

For an atheist, what should matter the most is if the Bible shows evidence of the existence of god or not. If it shows that god was an extraterrestrial being and not a god then it helps his/her side, as it turns the Bible from a religious text into a historical description of events.

PS: the above applies to some atheists. In my case, I'm not that worried if god(s) or extraterrestrials exist or not, but if they do exist then I want to see real evidences.

a reply to: neoholographic

It's funny that you have to post images of columns put sideways to turn them from pillars into something resembling cigar shaped UFOs.

a reply to: Akragon

What I meant is that I doubt he followed a sideways pillar.

a reply to: ArMaP

lol... well I doubt it happened at all...

it would make more sense IF this "god" was an extra terrestrial... landing on mountians with fire and thunder, blackening mountain tops... what does a god need a ship for?

a reply to: Akragon

Well, we have, basically, two options:
1 - The description is accurate and things happened exactly as the Bible says;
2 - The description is not accurate and things may have not happened at all or happened in a different way.

Considering we cannot know what option is true, we are left only to our imagination.

a reply to: ArMaP

and then theres option 3

Things actually happened as the book describes, but due to limited understanding of primitive people... they could only describe what they saw as "gods"

Chances are IF moses or Ezekiel saw a space ship... or even a ship from out modern era, they could only really think it was the "gods"... whereas it could have just been an advanced civilization just peeking in...

Even hindu lore has their vimana... which were essentially space ships

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ArMaP

and then theres option 3

Things actually happened as the book describes, but due to limited understanding of primitive people... they could only describe what they saw as "gods"

That's included in option 2, things happened in a different way.

Chances are IF moses or Ezekiel saw a space ship... or even a ship from out modern era, they could only really think it was the "gods"... whereas it could have just been an advanced civilization just peeking in...

True, but what if they really see gods?

Although I find an extraterrestrial visitation more likely than a visitation from god(s), the fact is that we do not really have any way of knowing which (if any) of the two happened. It's even possible that both happened, and that an extraterrestrial/extradimensional/temporal visitation was followed by a visitation from god or vice versa.

Great thread Neo.

I've been saying for years that the 'cloud by day, a pillar of fire by night', could be no other than a craft of some kind.
Whoever was controlling the craft must have had a great sense of humour; the desert that the Jews were said to be crossing, can be comfortably covered by foot in a few days. One has to ask, what were they doing for 40 years? Just by orientating oneself by the Sun, surely at least some of the Jews would have realised that they were being deceived. [It's also curious why all those people, said to number an astonishing 2.5 million, did not leave a trace of their existence]

The Book of Enoch has even more references to flying & 'Sons of God'.
Although Enoch was removed from the earliest Bibles, there's a few quotes from the book in the NT.

There's a well known Biblical quote that I think is rather obvious but I've never heard questioned;
Exodus 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God ... " [then issues a threat to terrorise ones family for several generations] This clearly indicates that the speaker has rivals.

There is only one Creator. Christian doctrine agrees that there's only one God. So therefore the speaker of the above quote could not be God. So who could it possibly be then? To my mind, taking into account all the spacecraft ..... er, I mean 'clouds' & 'pillars of fire' buzzing around, & the fact that the locals considered them as 'Gods', it could only be off-world travellers with advanced technology.

It wasn't that long ago where an isolated tribe in Papua New Guinea thought that white men flying a Cessna were Gods. They could fly. Produce fire in their hands. Make music come from a box. They could even capture ones image with a magical device. They must be Gods.
It would be no different to a pack of goat herders who encountered off-world travellers who could fly. They must be Gods I tells ya! lol

Speaking of flying pillars. When I was around 9yo, my younger brother & I stood transfixed as a large cigar shaped craft moved very slowly for at least a few minutes off in the distance before taking off in the blink of an eye.
Looking at my brother I asked "Did you see that?" "yeeaahh" came his awed reply. Strangely that we never mentioned it until over 20 years later when I reminded my brother, who is a Pentecostal.