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Canadian Prime Minister's new year goal - more suicides.

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posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
I would have welcomed assisted suicide when my grandfather was too far gone with Alzheimer's to remember his own wife or children but California wanted to keep him alive for another FIVE YEARS until grandma didn't have any assets or savings. He was "dead" by "natural causes" 18 days after they ran out of money for the more expensive Alzheimer's treatment facility and moved him to a less expensive residential hospice. Death is far less scary to me than the thought my children or partner might feel obligated to visit (and pay for) my bedridden corpse years after I was already gone.


So true ! Elderly care is expensive and as the years roll by it is easy for savings to become depleted.
My mother has talked about assisted suicide.. she is old.. hurting with different medical issues and she would welcome death as the new beginning she sees it as.




posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: schuyler
How about never!



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 11:25 AM
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If this guy was running for office in the US, I'd vote for him. Full legalization of physician assisted suicide is a no brainer. If you own yourself (and you do) you should be able to choose to die in a humane fashion for any reason that you might want to. I would not think this would even be a controversial opinion on a forum that used to be full of people who liked to think for themselves.

It's not even a question of sanity, IMO. If someone says they don't want to live, I trust them to make their own decisions as much as I'd trust them to live on the streets. Which we do that. We don't have a problem with treating mentally unstable people like garbage as long as they're alive. Americans have no moral problems with that at all.
edit on 3-1-2020 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: schuyler
The problem is this: When does the ABILITY to take your own life become the OBLIGATION to take your own life.


That's no more of an obligation than the fact that living is already slavery. The mere fact that you exist is the obligation to be a slave. How is that not a problem?



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 12:06 PM
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Come off it. You want people to suffer instead when they have a late stage incurable illness?

We don't even let our PETS suffer. Why would we want our relatives to suffer, or expect others to suffer?

a reply to: swanne


edit on 3-1-2020 by hombero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 12:20 PM
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I know of many chemistries that can be used to take my life if I need too, common things in the household, it would look like a heart attack or just stupidity of mixing the wrong cleaning chemicals together. But if I am old and with alzheimers, I might not remember how to do it, or I might not be able to get my gun and take a walk in the woods.

So, I do agree that assisted suicide is something that should be considered legal. I do not want everything I worked for going to the doctors and hospitals, I would rather leave it to the kids to help them get through their life easier.

The whole keeping assisted suicide illegal is being pushed by those who make money off of us old and crippled people, they start propaganda to turn people against it. The main thing that needs to be worked out though, is that life insurance companies need to allow assisted suicide as a legitimate claim, but too a point, there has to be a low life expectancy expected, maybe less than a year or six months.



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: schuyler
The problem is this: When does the ABILITY to take your own life become the OBLIGATION to take your own life.


That's no more of an obligation than the fact that living is already slavery. The mere fact that you exist is the obligation to be a slave. How is that not a problem?


That is one of the silliest things I have ever read and misses the point altogether. I increasingly see the attitude that if you are old, you are useless and a burden to society. (In fact, older people generally pay more in taxes than people like you make, but that is lost on most people. They 'contribute' way more than you do.) Nevertheless here's Granny who is getting old, is retired, and having trouble coping because the culture is so anti-aging. Rather than keep people in the family unit we warehouse them in nursing homes. Since a lot of times there IS no family unit, what can they do? We just want them out of our sight because they act so stupid and you are so bright.

So Granny is becoming a burden and a bit frizzy in the head. Let's just make it EASY for her to kill herself. She'll get the point. Just leave the pills near her bed with a glass of water. Of course it will be totally HER decision. You didn't have a thing to do with it, except make it very, very easy. And with people who are truly in the throes of dementia, how can you say it is all their decision? They don't remember their own name, but they are lucid enough to choose death? Besides, there's the inheritance to think about. We certainly don't want granny to spend it on herself!



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: schuyler
The problem is this: When does the ABILITY to take your own life become the OBLIGATION to take your own life.


That's no more of an obligation than the fact that living is already slavery. The mere fact that you exist is the obligation to be a slave. How is that not a problem?


That is one of the silliest things I have ever read and misses the point altogether.


I'm sure it makes you feel better to convince yourself of that but it is actually probably one of the most accurate things you have ever read and you just can't admit it because it makes you very uncomfortable. As well it should.
edit on 3-1-2020 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)


EDIT - Also, I am not missing the point at all. I'm just bypassing all the petty superficial "debating" about the issue of physician assisted suicide and going right to the heart of the matter. Self ownership. The right to self-determination. If you believe people have the right to make their own choices, you should believe people have the right to opt out of life altogether at any time for any reason. It's a way more meaningful debate to have than just whether or not the terminally ill have the right to opt out of a slow lingering death (they obviously should have that right but why stop there?).

If you believe anything else, then you believe that society owns us. Which is the definition of the word "slave" in my book. It's not silly at all. It's just a plain rational fact.


edit on 3-1-2020 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-1-2020 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-1-2020 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

The "inheritance" thing is a massive red-herring. In my family's case, grandma was still alive. She wouldn't have been forced to live in the spare room at her grown daughter's home because she would have still had *some* of the money she and grandpa had spent 59 years saving to pay their own bills after retirement.

$2400 a month "Alzheimers" in-patient care stole that from her and left her with almost nothing except a portion of his Navy retirement.

You can spin back to "inheritance" all you want but the state pushed him into a hospice with a bedbug infestation when his money ran out.



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 07:17 PM
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a reply to: swanne

Sorry to those who think otherwise but I personally believe Assisted Suicide should be legal in all countries. Imagine those who have taken their lives in secret alone, out of desperation because they couldn't have their loved ones with them at the end or those who have taken their lives in horrible and violent ways painful ways in most cases. No It should be a legal thing. Now that isn't to say there shouldn't be checks, I think there should be to stop those who are sick and feel guilty that their own family are taking care of them there should be people who can check this maybe create a system that you have to go through but the opportunity should be lawful.

I had a neighbour who looked after her husband who suffered with that Locked in syndrome thing and was slowly losing the ability to do anything himself, he was hating life, miserable when it reached the point that he couldn't move anything below his chest, his arms were going as well. I never met him personally but heard how horrible it was for him. I remember the day he finally died and the wife cried her eyes out saying she had lost her own life for the last ten years because she lost the husband she loved. She never let him give up and tried to keep him going only for him to spend the majority of those years begging people anyone to take his life, his doctors, nurses, he offered money to people who all said no. My heart went out to him and her.

Now I'm not saying everyone should be able to take their life legally or be helped to take their own lives for any given reason not even depression I just think people being alone in their final moments, is just wrong.



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 08:22 PM
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One of the previous posts mentioned "putting down" pet dogs when their time was coming, but when dogs and cats, and likely most higher animals, get deathly sick, they will seclude themselves, quit eating and drinking, and either get better or waste away until they shut down and die.

Going off somewhere and hastening death by not eating seems to be the natural pattern when you're getting close. Many Native American tribes had a tradition of setting up a riser, or a hut, for an elderly member that was nearing death. The old sickly tribe member would go out to the specified area, hut or riser, stop eating and drinking, and lay down to die.

Our last dog was getting on in years, had cancer and probably heart worms to boot. She was running right along with the younger dog, then starting to lose bladder control so I built an outdoor enclosure for her, rather than take her out to the pet cemetery and put her down. After a week or two of that, she then stopped eating her dog food, but would eat food I made for her. She then refused any food and would only drink water. When I got the enclosure finished and put her in it, she just stood there, but still wagged her tail when I talked to her. I went fishing when my GF watched her pass away. She yelped, dropped to the ground, had a few spasms and died. Another dog we had that died of cancer died the same way except I let him wander off to die. He was trying to wander away a few times, so I let him go because I knew it was coming soon. Most of the pets out in the pet cemetery I shot when the time came, and I hate doing that. I told my GF that the next pet we get will be the kind you flush down the toilet when they are dead.

I guess I agree with suicide when you are certain to die soon, but having someone else do the job of "pulling the trigger" so to speak, seems wrong to me. You should be allowed to die like having a DNR order, or no life supporting medical devices that keep you alive unnaturally after a certain point. You should be able to just lay down and die in the most painless way possible when it's time to go.
edit on 3-1-2020 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Typo

edit on 3-1-2020 by MichiganSwampBuck because: For Clarity



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: schuyler
How about never!



Peer pressure is a bitch.



posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: DAVID64 it sounds good to me the only problem would your funeral insurance cover it a funeral cost is a heavy burden on a spouse or family just thinking




posted on Jan, 3 2020 @ 08:54 PM
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a reply to: Dwoodward85 i am a insulin taking diabetic the diabetic doctor who informed me when she gave me the kit said this is a suicide kit do not under any circumstance exceed the dose unless you mean it i told my kids if i ever become veg or close to it just fill it up put it in my hand and walk away food for thought




posted on Jan, 4 2020 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: schuyler

My own observations supports your point.

I know of a woman. She sent her mom - an awesome, 80-years old lady, into a retirement house. There, she was basically imprisoned by her control freak daughter, that declared to "know what's best". And for over a decade now there the daughter has been dictating who should and shouldn't be allowed to visit her mom. Her mom spend over a decade in the same stupid apartment room, no freedom. The daughter never visits, just controls at a distance. She literally is just waiting for her mom to pass away and inherit the stuff.

Poverty has reached a point where we don't take care of our elders any longer - we round them up and await their death so to relieve a little bit of our own poverty.

That's the hard truth. And that's why killing programs such as the Nazi's and such as Trudeau's gain so much support. The people actually welcome evil, and then when it's too late, they blame others.



posted on Jan, 4 2020 @ 12:34 PM
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Hospitals ignore DNR's. Especially Jesus hospitals.



a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck



posted on Jan, 4 2020 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
One of the previous posts mentioned "putting down" pet dogs when their time was coming, but when dogs and cats, and likely most higher animals, get deathly sick, they will seclude themselves, quit eating and drinking, and either get better or waste away until they shut down and die.

Going off somewhere and hastening death by not eating seems to be the natural pattern when you're getting close. Many Native American tribes had a tradition of setting up a riser, or a hut, for an elderly member that was nearing death. The old sickly tribe member would go out to the specified area, hut or riser, stop eating and drinking, and lay down to die.

Our last dog was getting on in years, had cancer and probably heart worms to boot. She was running right along with the younger dog, then starting to lose bladder control so I built an outdoor enclosure for her, rather than take her out to the pet cemetery and put her down. After a week or two of that, she then stopped eating her dog food, but would eat food I made for her. She then refused any food and would only drink water. When I got the enclosure finished and put her in it, she just stood there, but still wagged her tail when I talked to her. I went fishing when my GF watched her pass away. She yelped, dropped to the ground, had a few spasms and died. Another dog we had that died of cancer died the same way except I let him wander off to die. He was trying to wander away a few times, so I let him go because I knew it was coming soon. Most of the pets out in the pet cemetery I shot when the time came, and I hate doing that. I told my GF that the next pet we get will be the kind you flush down the toilet when they are dead.

I guess I agree with suicide when you are certain to die soon, but having someone else do the job of "pulling the trigger" so to speak, seems wrong to me. You should be allowed to die like having a DNR order, or no life supporting medical devices that keep you alive unnaturally after a certain point. You should be able to just lay down and die in the most painless way possible when it's time to go.


So you posted to tell us you starved your poor sick dog to death to emphasize your point that it's wrong for a doctor to help someone die when they've asked for it? Wow. Just wow.

I'm sorry but if this is not some crossed wires on the empathy circuit, I don't know what is.



posted on Jan, 5 2020 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
One of the previous posts mentioned "putting down" pet dogs when their time was coming, but when dogs and cats, and likely most higher animals, get deathly sick, they will seclude themselves, quit eating and drinking, and either get better or waste away until they shut down and die.

Going off somewhere and hastening death by not eating seems to be the natural pattern when you're getting close. Many Native American tribes had a tradition of setting up a riser, or a hut, for an elderly member that was nearing death. The old sickly tribe member would go out to the specified area, hut or riser, stop eating and drinking, and lay down to die.

Our last dog was getting on in years, had cancer and probably heart worms to boot. She was running right along with the younger dog, then starting to lose bladder control so I built an outdoor enclosure for her, rather than take her out to the pet cemetery and put her down. After a week or two of that, she then stopped eating her dog food, but would eat food I made for her. She then refused any food and would only drink water. When I got the enclosure finished and put her in it, she just stood there, but still wagged her tail when I talked to her. I went fishing when my GF watched her pass away. She yelped, dropped to the ground, had a few spasms and died. Another dog we had that died of cancer died the same way except I let him wander off to die. He was trying to wander away a few times, so I let him go because I knew it was coming soon. Most of the pets out in the pet cemetery I shot when the time came, and I hate doing that. I told my GF that the next pet we get will be the kind you flush down the toilet when they are dead.

I guess I agree with suicide when you are certain to die soon, but having someone else do the job of "pulling the trigger" so to speak, seems wrong to me. You should be allowed to die like having a DNR order, or no life supporting medical devices that keep you alive unnaturally after a certain point. You should be able to just lay down and die in the most painless way possible when it's time to go.


So you posted to tell us you starved your poor sick dog to death to emphasize your point that it's wrong for a doctor to help someone die when they've asked for it? Wow. Just wow.

I'm sorry but if this is not some crossed wires on the empathy circuit, I don't know what is.


Perhaps the empathy circuit is malfunctioning, but when you can only afford the ammo to put them down, letting them go naturally seems pretty humane to me. Neither dog I mentioned was suffering in pain when they passed. Those pets that suffered at the end were put down and to clarify what I stated in my other post, I hate having to do that because it is emotionally stressful for me to have to take them out back.

Obviously you have never had to take care of a dying pet like we do out in the sticks, we do the job personally. Less stressful on the pet then driving them to a vet and waiting for the shots to be injected by strangers in a strange place IMO.

Remember, this is all in reference to how death comes naturally, similar to how it occurs with wildlife and other cultures. What guilt can I have in what is inevitable and natural?

ETA: I should clarify that I never stated a that a doctor shouldn't help you at the end of your life, as I stated it should be your right to die in the most painless way possible. I do think that having someone else kill you (even painlessly) is not a natural death.
edit on 5-1-2020 by MichiganSwampBuck because: For Clarity



posted on Jan, 5 2020 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: schuyler

So you'd like to punish everyone for the possible misgivings of a few. Maybe your the one missing the point.

I don't agree either but i certainly would not oppose others making their their own choices as the very last thing anyone wants more than the suffering is the loss of that loved one so if everyone has agreed and goes ahead it certainly wouldn't have been a decision that was taken lightly.

For me i don't agree as "thoust must endure to the end" but thats just me and my belief system should not dictate anyone elses.

So - legalize it for sure.



posted on Jan, 6 2020 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: Athetos
I don’t support the decision to be made by a third party or anyone except the person who is looking for assisted suicide and they should be of sound mind.

^^^ This ^^^

I have mixed feelings about it, but at the very bare minimum, there should be absolutely zero power or authority for anyone other than the person involved.

The only other acceptable possibilities would be if they have a living will have made their decision/desire known, or worst case, if they do not have a living will but are 100% incapacitated and under the legal guardianship of a family member, that family member may be able to make the decision under certain conditions.

But in no way, shape or form should the government and/or any medical person ever be able to make such a decision for anyone.



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