Evil Trump avoided the draft during the Vietnam War

a reply to: GreenGunther

After WWII the US thought it was the rightful peacekeeper of the world.
If countries want genocide and civilian wars it shouldn’t be the US’ problem, only the UN.

The US got too big for their britches since the allies won the first and second war. Guess we figured we could save the world. That's where we were wrong. I'd say every war since is a side effect of that idiotic thinking. All of which did nothing but add more bodies to the pile.

The draft was stupid and almost entirely political. Same goes for war in general. Who the hell wants to be in a unit with a guy who doesn't want to be there?

Besides, when was the last time we elected a combat veteran to our highest office? Bush the elder?

Americans love their veterans when we can make heroes out of them. We just don't care for them as presidents, apparently.

Trump may have avoided the draft, as did many 'fortunate sons'.
In his defense, he's not a war-monger. He's very much opposed to the senseless regime-change wars and the U.S. 'playing cop' everywhere.
Hillary and her crew have actually been dubbed "the party of war".
Hypocrites!

www.truthdig.com...

a reply to: GreenGunther


You can thank Woodrow Wilson for that!

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.

Woodrow Wilson

1913

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I think people just get upset that the rich and well-connected can easily avoid the call of duty. Basically resembling a feudal system that reminds the poor that they are of a lower class and subject to different rules.

Dodging the draft out of protest is different than one saying they would have gone if not for _____ reason. While the real reason is really because they were rich.

No one wealthy wants to admit they used tgeur status and wealth to play by a different set of rules.

a reply to: GreenGunther

There were no grounds for going to war with Vietnam. Zero.

I was told the Vietnam war was actually about control of opioids. A political reason was used, but it wasn’t the true motive of the war. Don’t know if that is true.. but it seems many wars are started under what seems to be pc reasons, when in fact there are far more nefarious and greedy purposes behind it , where only a few benefit from it.

Most of the top executives of fortune 500 companies are former military. Now, these are likely former officers not enlisted and one can't be a military officer without a college degree but it's really no different than any other industry.

People talk about all these great companies like Apple and Amazon but most of their workers are in fact poor and uneducated and in reality, much worse than the military lower tiers. People putting Apple products together are basically slave labor and their suicides are rarely reported and there are a lot of them. Amazon drivers and warehouse workers, are they really a step up from say a E-5 or below in the military. I would say no just on benefits alone. Free medical, college, housing, food, job training, discounts. I would take the enlisted job any day over packing and delivering boxes.

The truth is out of all the industries that have poor and uneducated, the military is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel but people for whatever reason give it this stigma.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I must have missed where the Apple employees have to enter war zones and be exposed to chemicals that give them diseases that their employer will not accept accountability for.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

You’d be surprised on the ratio of enlisted military WITH a Bachelors degree and those working towards one vs just a few years ago. Times have changed big time, promotions don’t happen with senior enlisted without at least a Bachelors. The military is pushing for a smarter well rounded soldier.

Edit, I’ve run across several E-4’s with Bachelor’s degrees, and a few with Masters. They are in the Guard/Reserves and have good paying civilian jobs.

a reply to: The2Billies

You gotta understand...a lot of my high school buddies were coming home dead. And Canada is right here across the Detroit River from me..

It was a real issue then. Burn the draft cards, burn the bras...prob death in a far off land....or swim a 1/2 mile to Windsor, Ontario.

You had to be there, involved, affected...otherwise, one hasn't a concept of what it was like.*

*Thanks to all who served!

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Gothmog

Bone spurs. Kind of strange that a younger Trump would have them. However not unheard of in younger people. And sometimes people with bone spurs don't feel them.

In any case. I don't blame him for not wanting to go.

I had them at 14 years old.
Hell , you can be born with them.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

I must have missed where the Apple employees have to enter war zones and be exposed to chemicals that give them diseases that their employer will not accept accountability for.

I was in a war zone. I would much rather be in that war zone than in a 3rd world country putting together Apple components for $1 a day under poor working conditions, no time off, no benefits and a diet of rice and beans.

Besides, almost NOBODY in the military serves in an actual war zone or combat role. The odds of getting killed in warfare are lower than getting killed in a plane crash yet people get on planes everyday without thinking twice about it.

originally posted by: RickinVa


Let that soak in....57% of the available men were given deferments for various reasons.

How many of those deferments were student deferments? How many were marriage deferments? How many were fatherhood deferments?

The truth is that the majority of deferments were given to young men from wealthy families. The majority of those who were drafted were from low income families.

"One aspect of the conflict, by the way, that I will never ever countenance is that we drafted the lowest income level of America, and the highest income level found a doctor that would say that they had a bone spur. That is wrong. That is wrong. If we’re going to ask every American to serve, every American should serve."

~ American Hero John McCain

I don't think Trump is evil because he dodged the draft, I think he's a coward and unpatriotic.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Dying in a war zone is only 1 hazard of being in a war zone. The 40k some odd veteran suicides help speak to this. As do the countless other vets that wake up in cold sweats screaming at night trying to cope with what they have lived through.

I have a few of the latter in my family. You just won't be the same after you pull your friend from a burning tank in pieces.

a reply to: RickinVa

Trump also received 3 deferments for education. If he wasn't a Republican president, leftists would hail him as a hero for avoiding racist military service to go get brainwashed in college.

Count me as another vet who doesn't give a # Trump got a draft deferment. The dishonest Left always talks about this like he just paid some doctor off to say he had a disqualifying condition. Nevermind the fact that the Army had to actually certify it as being legit. Also, the Army are the ones who decided what conditions warranted disqualification from service. If you don't think bone spurs are serious enough, tell the Army they need to change their standards. Obviously you know more about what kind of conditions would be bad for combat than the Army's medical experts do I guess?

a reply to: RickinVa
The draft being immoral doesn't let Trump off the hook.

But it's not like we don't know he's an a hole.
How is this even news?

And more interestingly, why is it the peacenik left that cares so much and the warmongering right don't.

He exposes everyones hypocrisy so brilliantly.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Dying in a war zone is only 1 hazard of being in a war zone. The 40k some odd veteran suicides help speak to this. As do the countless other vets that wake up in cold sweats screaming at night trying to cope with what they have lived through.

I have a few of the latter in my family. You just won't be the same after you pull your friend from a burning tank in pieces.

Suicide rates have almost nothing to do with being in a war zone. Most of the suicides in the military never left the United States. I hope you are aware of that fact. They were never deployed.

This means they had problems before even joining the military. The main problem however was the military lowered standards and let people in who would have never been allowed in years ago.

As for pulling someone out of a tank, I was deployed a couple of times and never even seen a tank. I was in over 20 years in combat units and was never in a tank. The odds of that happening are extremely low. Not only for dying in a tank but any death in the military for that matter. It's much lower than dying on a plane as I stated. One should be more scared of flying than being in the military by a longshot. It's stupid.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: The2Billies

You gotta understand...a lot of my high school buddies were coming home dead. And Canada is right here across the Detroit River from me..

It was a real issue then. Burn the draft cards, burn the bras...prob death in a far off land....or swim a 1/2 mile to Windsor, Ontario.

You had to be there, involved, affected...otherwise, one hasn't a concept of what it was like.*

*Thanks to all who served!

I totally understand. My husband was drafted. My high school friends were drafted.

I still find the people who ran across the border and then returned to the US to be cowards and vermin.

Sorry, I really and truly understand. I lived it too. My father had a bomb placed under his bed, I get it.

But neither my father who was an older officer and could have quit the military did / nor did my husband who lost his deferment when he dropped out of college - it was terrifying - my father was one of 25 men in a bunker during the tet offensive and only 4 came out alive - but my father went and so did many many of my friends. My husband was ready to go if necessary, but the war ended.

If someone ran across the border, and stayed there, well at least they truly abandoned their country - but coming back to the US - cowards and vermin. Sorry I don't agree with you at all. The worst was these very vermin spit on my father and husband both and called them wretched names for years for being veterans, when they were traitors.

As a veteran my husband had a hard time even getting a job because they were so loathed and hated during that time period. Yes, I get it, I really do and I lived it too!

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

War is war.... If you went or if you didn't shouldn't make a difference in your 'status'.

McCain was right... The lower class were the bullet catchers. The ones that could afford college, the rich and well off folk, directed those poor sods to catch the bullets.

Where is the honor in that? I'd rather live to protect my country than die trying to hold yours together.

You're a coward if your afraid of dying? Sorry... Vet here who lived through Desert Storm (as if that was really lethal for the US - yet not all of us came home the same as when we left, physically and mentally) and I can honestly say that I'm ok with someone running away from war and their own possible death.

Sometimes I wonder if this country is even worth dying for, thanks to government but I can say I'll defend everyone around me until death. Another country? Not so much. We had our break from tyranny hundreds of years ago. Nothing says people and other countries can't do the same.

originally posted by: The2Billies

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: The2Billies

You gotta understand...a lot of my high school buddies were coming home dead. And Canada is right here across the Detroit River from me..

It was a real issue then. Burn the draft cards, burn the bras...prob death in a far off land....or swim a 1/2 mile to Windsor, Ontario.

You had to be there, involved, affected...otherwise, one hasn't a concept of what it was like.*

*Thanks to all who served!

If someone ran across the border, and stayed there, well at least they truly abandoned their country - but coming back to the US - cowards and vermin. Sorry I don't agree with you at all. The worst was these very vermin spit on my father and husband both and called them wretched names for years for being veterans, when they were traitors.

Totally agree. Have the courage of your convictions. If the US is so terrible, leave and stay gone. Like all these scum who swore they'd leave if Trump got elected, or that complain about how racist and evil our country is, yet they stay here. They know they have it so #ing good here they have no cause to be complaining about anything. [Insert FirstWorldProblems meme].

And as horrible as the scum were that spit on your father and husband, at least they were open about it. Now the same kind of lowlives who hate our military hide behind a fake veneer of "caring" and "support," all the while hiding feelings like this and this that occasionally seep out. They think we're all dumb hicks who get tricked by some false sense of patriotism into fighting "oil wars" and they look down on us with "sympathy." # them.