let's talk about life, the universe and consciousness

a reply to: LoneBird

It's no wonder that some of those existentialist philosophers so often went mad or ended up killing or drinking themselves to death. For me though, thinking along those lines is only a consideration and not a belief. It's belief along those lines of thinking that causes such a sense of lostness.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Sometimes I get frustrated at my higher self for getting me in this mess down here, but I agree with you, and lately my higher self is all over me like white on rice. Recently there has been a constant stream of communication developing, and boy is the cold hard truth brutal sometimes. I think the further one moves away from a sinful life, the higher self starts to move in more and more. And I reckon it's best to keep this merger going. Thanks for the advice.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I understand what you mean. It's why I have quit drinking. We have to sort this out. Make some serious progress. Or the machine is going to takeover.

I just get the feeling though, that there is a hidden depth within each one of us, that goes beyond even what some would call the singularity of universal consciousness.

How do I know this. I don't know how cause I am not smart.

But I think if one has the proper yearning and insatiable desire to find out, and one gives one's whole being to the matter, well one might just find out.

If the universe was a living, cosmic entity, in it own way, it would be really hard to say what level of consciousness it would have. It should be able to emphrically think of any thing, or be any one, while at the same time, it would be kind of brainless, like an amoeba.

For A.I, the usual guess is that it would be able to reprogram or got to a point, rebuild itself in it own vision sort of speak. The taboo that we could build it so well, that it would think for itself. Kind of like how certain meditation practices go to great lengths to control their own body, like heart rate, or increasing their core body temperature.

I know there is a big difference between conscouisness and sentience, but when it comes to self awareness, that whole another level of bs to sift through.

Edit to my previous comment, I missed the actual quotation of the term "empty speeches". Let's see how best to fit that in (I'll put it in red).

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

...After that, dfnj2015 rolled with Fyrebyrd's and Peeple's philosophies again and showed a lot more silly philosophers rolling with it as well (or a minor variation or modification of or elaboration on it, that's basically what I mean with 'rolling with it', building further upon the idea or some similar misinterpretation of what the concept of "consciousness" is referring to, or what it really means, minus all the bogus philosophies and empty speech* about it).

*: One last piece of advice for everyone:

“Look out that no one takes you captive* [Or “carries you off as his prey.”] by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” (Col. 2:8) “Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.” (Eph. 5:6) “Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Tim. 6:20) “Do not be led astray by various and strange teachings, for it is better for the heart to be strengthened by undeserved kindness than by foods* [That is, rules about food.], which do not benefit those occupied with them.” (Heb. 13:9)

Some people today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they come across. It is all too easy to absorb whatever is around us. But it is far better for each individual personally to choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. So try not to occupy your mind with that which will not benefit you, and might even poison your mind (see my signature).

The footnote for the usage of the word "foods" that I added now may actually confuse people regarding what I said beneath that quotation though. Or be distracting in some manner, if that's the case, just consider that rules about food, as used in that context, were really philosophies about what was clean to eat or not, thus, these philosophies are the type of mental food as the concept of mental food is used in the context of my commentary beneath it. That works as well like that (I initially thought it would be easier to get what I'm referring to at the end and its relation to that text as I use concepts such as 'being occupied with', without the footnote). Now that I'm editing anyway, might as well mention the footnote.

Don't forget, that Fyrebyrd's philosophy (as quoted earlier) boils down to suggesting that 'turds also have a degree of consciousness' (as being an example of something that falls under his statement regarding "everything"), and that Peeple's philosophy boils down to suggesting that 'consciousness is (to be found?) in turds' (as being an example of something that falls under his statement regarding "everything that experiences change in time", which turds do, especially once you flush them).

Now does that really sound smart, insightful, wise, sophisticated or a mischaracterization of their philosophies? Or does it sound more like philosophical crap? Nonsense, foolishness, silly, ridiculous, empty? Dare I say..."bad" (philosophy)? And in contrast to the "mischaracterization"-part of that question, does it sound more like an honest extrapolation of their philosophies (thinking through them and what they would mean for turds and other ridiculous things that obviously aren't conscious of their existence, obvious in any honest rational conversation where the concept of consciousness is used appropiately and correctly, without confusing people and beguiling them with elaborate convoluted philosophies about the concept that obscure the foolishness of the philosophy that is build upon that misapplication of the word "consciousness", making efficient use of people's ignorance and confusion about the concept and related words and the mysteries remaining regarding consciousness)?

Isaiah 5:20,21

Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,

Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,

Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe to those wise in their own eyes

And discreet in their own sight!

Is anyone here aware of how poisonous physical crap (feces) can be when injected into the blood stream?

Remember, for reasons given, I'm not in the flattery business, I'm in the truth seeking and telling business. Pardon if some of my questions sound a bit too rhetorical for anyone's taste (as in, 'hint, hint').

“If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know it as he should know it.” (1 Cor. 8:2; not to be interpreted from an agnostic perspective, but regarding everything I said about human philosophy and philosophies that are falsely called "knowledge", such as people's apparent confusion about turds being conscious of their existence, by extention of the philosophies they express belief in, without always spelling that out as they promote or describe them in a positive or flattering light, as if its something profound sometimes)

originally posted by: LoneBird
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Sometimes I get frustrated at my higher self for getting me in this mess down here, but I agree with you, and lately my higher self is all over me like white on rice. Recently there has been a constant stream of communication developing, and boy is the cold hard truth brutal sometimes. I think the further one moves away from a sinful life, the higher self starts to move in more and more. And I reckon it's best to keep this merger going. Thanks for the advice.

Mess? You orchestrated all of it to grow your soul.

Continuing with the subjects of consciousness, life and the universe (and a proper application and usage of those words in the right context that also happens to matter more when considering these subjects than the context it is used in by some other people)... Emphasis on the first subject.

How Unique You Are! (Is There a Creator Who Cares About You?)

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Memory and More!
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Nor is our brain just some vast storage place for information, like a supercomputer. Biology professors Robert Ornstein and Richard F. Thompson wrote: “The ability of the human mind to learn—to store and recall information—is the most remarkable phenomenon in the biological universe. Everything that makes us human—language, thought, knowledge, culture—is the result of this extraordinary capability.”

Moreover, you have a conscious mind. That statement may seem basic, but it sums up something that unquestionably makes you exceptional. The mind has been described as “the elusive entity where intelligence, decision making, perception, awareness and sense of self reside.” As creeks, streams, and rivers feed into a sea, so memories, thoughts, images, sounds, and feelings flow constantly into or through our mind. Consciousness, says one definition, is “the perception of what passes in a man’s own mind.”

Modern researchers have made great strides in understanding the physical makeup of the brain and some of the electrochemical processes that occur in it. They can also explain the circuitry and functioning of an advanced computer. However, there is a vast difference between brain and computer. With your brain you are conscious and are aware of your being, but a computer certainly is not [whereislogic: just like a turd certainly is not]. Why the difference?

Frankly, how and why consciousness arises from physical processes in our brain is a mystery. “I don’t see how any science can explain that,” one neurobiologist commented. Also, Professor James Trefil observed: “What, exactly, it means for a human being to be conscious . . . is the only major question in the sciences that we don’t even know how to ask.” One reason why is that scientists are using the brain to try to understand the brain. And just studying the physiology of the brain may not be enough. Consciousness is “one of the most profound mysteries of existence,” observed Dr. David Chalmers, “but knowledge of the brain alone may not get [scientists] to the bottom of it.”

Nonetheless, each of us experiences consciousness. For example, our vivid memories of past events are not mere stored facts, like computer bits of information. We can reflect on our experiences, draw lessons from them, and use them to shape our future. We are able to consider several future scenarios and evaluate the possible effects of each. We have the capacity to analyze, create, appreciate, and love. We can enjoy pleasant conversations about the past, present, and future. We have ethical values about behavior and can use them in making decisions that may or may not be of immediate benefit. We are attracted to beauty in art and morals. In our mind we can mold and refine our ideas and guess how other people will react if we carry these out.

Such factors produce an awareness that sets humans apart from other life-forms on earth. A dog, a cat, or a bird looks in a mirror and responds as if seeing another of its kind. But when you look in a mirror, you are conscious of yourself as a being with the capacities just mentioned. You can reflect on dilemmas, such as: ‘Why do some turtles live 150 years and some trees live over 1,000 years, but an intelligent human makes the news if he reaches 100?’ Dr. Richard Restak states: “The human brain, and the human brain alone, has the capacity to step back, survey its own operation, and thus achieve some degree of transcendence. Indeed, our capacity for rewriting our own script and redefining ourselves in the world is what distinguishes us from all other creatures in the world.”

Man’s consciousness baffles some. The book Life Ascending, while favoring a mere biological explanation, admits: “When we ask how a process [evolution] that resembles a game of chance, with dreadful penalties for the losers, could have generated such qualities as love of beauty and truth, compassion, freedom, and, above all, the expansiveness of the human spirit, we are perplexed. The more we ponder our spiritual resources, the more our wonder deepens.” Very true. Thus, we might round out our view of human uniqueness by a few evidences of our consciousness that illustrate why many are convinced that there must be an intelligent Designer, a Creator, who cares for us.

Art and Beauty
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Moral Values
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You Can Contemplate the Future and Plan for It
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Drawn to a Creator
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From Particle Physics to Your Brain

Professor Paul Davies reflected on the ability of the brain to handle the abstract field of mathematics. “Mathematics is not something that you find lying around in your back yard. It’s produced by the human mind. Yet if we ask where mathematics works best, it is in areas like particle physics and astrophysics, areas of fundamental science that are very, very far removed from everyday affairs.” What does that imply? “It suggests to me that consciousness and our ability to do mathematics are no mere accident, no trivial detail, no insignificant by-product of evolution.”—Are We Alone?

I really don't want to shorten that any further. I hope it's OK, for this time.

a reply to: LoneBird

How do I know this. I don't know how cause I am not smart.

Well, if it means anything, I haven't found any reason to think you are not.

When you say ''But I think if one has the proper yearning and insatiable desire to find out, and one gives one's whole being to the matter, well one might just find out. '' For me at least, I have found it the better side of foolery to the practice of finding out to be better than the finding out itself. That is a lot of times I think we believe that we have found something out that it then can shut down the practice itself, the practice of finding out.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Yessir. It's the journey, not the destination. The end is the beginning. The inquiry is eternal where there is infinite goodness. Maybe. Just thinking along.

a reply to: LoneBird

Yeah, maybe..

You know that old tome about ''you shall know the truth and it shall set you free''? People use it all the time. I used to but not any longer. Now, I think that ''the truth'' is like a prison. Of course that isn't the '' real truth'' as we would search for it but rather it's the belief that we have ''found'' ''the truth''. And that, I think, all to often is a large part of our human problem. These guys found the truth and they not only believe it but they fight for it too. The push it and try to make other people believe it too. It's like they don't have the truth but rather ''their truth'' has them and makes them do stuff they otherwise would not. That kind of pho-truth insists that you believe it more. And more. It makes the believer a slave.

I dunno, maybe. Just thinking along like you say.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Maybe the truth will never come upon one except through dissolution of the self. Total negation. What if there really is no you and I really and just human consciousness. And what if human consciousness is not human consciousness at all. And there is something like a main frame tricking brains(smaller computers) into thinking they are separate from this main computer that generates this human collective consciousness.

Who wants to bother with the stuff, just turn on the tube man, grab a brewski, is what my brain says.. but one must go into it and make a breakthrough.

a reply to: LoneBird
I"m not opposed to those notions. At least as perspectives to study and think about.

Yeah, what if there is no you or I, just ''bluster'' as your little squib suggests? Bluster, that's what I see a lot of , mostly actually. Blowing up what ever there really might be of us, you or me or anyone really, into some puffed up illusion to prove to ourselves that we really are. That might be a reason that I think I really am or we really are, that there is even some awareness there that would pretend to be something more than it really is. I'm just thinking off the cuff here you know.

Though I like to think about this stuff, now I mostly do as you mention above. Just be how I can and now in my old age a lot of that is the tube and the computer and games and such. Kind of reminds me of an old joke

There were these three philosophers. One, I will call Plato. HIs notion of the meaning of life was doing stuff. To do. That is the meaning of life was in action . A kind of going beyond, in movement and in that movement, the meaning of life was fulfilled.

The second philosopher, I'll call him Aristotle, took another position. His philosophy was that the meaning of life was to be found not in action but simply in being. That the meaning of life would make itself present just in simple existence through just being.

To Do
or
To Be

The third philosopher I'll call Sinatra. HIs philosophy was , sing it with me now', do be do be do.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

... do be do be do.

Did his singing career go up in smoke ?

a reply to: Nothin

a reply to: LoneBird
No you, no me, no world, no thing... just this that actually is.

This is an interesting discussion....

'There is no me' by David R Hawkins.

It is just 2 minutes long.

What we do know is that our individual consciousness exists. We also know that by banging our heads, this consciousness can be down regulated.
If consciousness is an emergent property then it is implicit in the fabric of the universe.
If it is not emergent, then it is also an implicit property.

a reply to: rom12345
If life is just being what it is..... does it require something to know it?
Is life one without a second or is it two?

Just life or life plus a knower?

Who can really know the answer to this question ?

a reply to: rom12345

It is discussed in this video about who could know it ....hilarious!!

Part 2.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

But to God each of us do exist, on a deep personal individual level. On a soul/spirit level at least.