New Zealand’s gun confiscation program just failed miserably

originally posted by: Freeborn
Ok, for the sake of the argument we accept that the presence of feral hogs requires people to carry guns.

How many feral hogs are there in New York City?
How many feral hogs are there in Chicago?
How many feral hogs are there in downtown LA?

I suspect the answer is none in any of them, but I could be wrong..

They use handguns in those cities...

a reply to: chr0naut

Written/spoken like an authoritarian elitist... "You must think and act like me, or you are a criminal... If you don't do as I say, not only are you a criminal, you are stupid too... I am sooooooooooo smaaaaart..."

a reply to: chr0naut

Over here, we aren't living under a balance of terror. You shouldn't have to fear government, nor should they fear you. They should administer things fairly in service to their citizens, of which they are some.

A utopian dream. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. History bears that out time and time again.

All governments are run by humans, the same humans you fear who, when in possession of a firearm, want to shoot you. All governments also enforce laws at the point of a gun. That's what makes them governments.

So guns, in the hands of humans, with an intent to shoot, don't pose a threat to human life?

Not all humans who possess a gun do so with an intent to shoot. I have never shot another human being. I have used my weapon to prevent a carjacking, though... luckily for both of us, the guy decided he didn't want to carjack me when he realized he was about to die in the process.

If, as you claim, people who possess guns want to shoot others, the bloodbath in the US would be legendary. That has not happened, and is a testament to the fact that most people who possess firearms are loathe to use them unless absolutely necessary.

I don't think that I will throw my life away to defend the day on which garbage is collected or the color of the deodorant blocks they put in public toilets or if they open another lane on the motorway or not.

Please, provide one example anywhere in the world where that has happened.

Your concept of government and mine are clearly quite different. We are a little country, with a little government and we wouldn't elect someone for the role who didn't appear to have the credentials to do the actual, and largely boring, work.

We certainly do have different concepts of government. Your blind trust in those you do not know frankly astounds me.

Again, good luck living under tyranny. You make your masters proud.

TheRedneck

a reply to: chr0naut

I have been hunting before. We hunt very few species. Ducks, deer and wild pigs

OK, now I have to call you out as a bald-faced liar. You have never even seen a razorback.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

I have been hunting before. We hunt very few species. Ducks, deer and wild pigs

OK, now I have to call you out as a bald-faced liar. You have never even seen a razorback.

TheRedneck

We get big feral pigs here too as well as in NZ.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

I have been hunting before. We hunt very few species. Ducks, deer and wild pigs

OK, now I have to call you out as a bald-faced liar. You have never even seen a razorback.

TheRedneck

We get big feral pigs here too as well as in NZ.

I know that. Hunted them as a young bloke down southern NSW. Big tuskers they were and still plenty about. Dogs always found them. Scared seven bags of sh1t out of me the first time I saw a big boar. Sad that where I hunted they weren't palatable.

Good dog meat though.

Bloody nuisance in the cane fields too.

Take care hope,

kind regards,

Bally

a reply to: bally001

G'day mate, I'm not really into hunting myself, plenty of mates have and I've heard many stories about them though, they are a force to be reckoned with from what i understand.

The closest I've come is watching that classic movie razorback.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

I have been hunting before. We hunt very few species. Ducks, deer and wild pigs

OK, now I have to call you out as a bald-faced liar. You have never even seen a razorback.

TheRedneck

We get big feral pigs here too as well as in NZ.

Apparently not where the Chronaut lives or there would not be such ignorance about it all otherwise. I live where a bearor cougar might stop by. Rare, but it has happened recently within a couple of miles of me a bear was destroying an area and moved on before someone could capture him. We just can't pretend someone else will come along in time to save us here and in most places on Earth.

Those who prefer safety of gov over their own personal freedom deserve neither. Safety becomes illogical tyranny when a gov decides what fundamental laws I will lose such are the right to bear arms, defines my freedoms in a narrow manner such as no free speech in public and then imposes that tyranny on me without my consent.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: bally001

G'day mate, I'm not really into hunting myself, plenty of mates have and I've heard many stories about them though, they are a force to be reckoned with from what i understand.

The closest I've come is watching that classic movie razorback.

No, I don't hunt anymore as you know. Got enough of that as a young bloke. 'Razorback' what a classic. Up there with the 'The cars that ate Paris.'

bally "I have a right to 'Beer Arms'"

a reply to: Freeborn

Ok, for the sake of the argument we accept that the presence of feral hogs requires people to carry guns.

How many feral hogs are there in New York City?
How many feral hogs are there in Chicago?
How many feral hogs are there in downtown LA?

All of those places are the ones with both a much higher gun crime rate and the tightest restrictions on guns.

So I will repeat my oft-stated position: even a razorback can be less dangerous than a human. You see a razorback, and you already know (unless you are chr0naut and think they're just "pigs") what they want.

Current laws simply aren't working.

I don't know what the answer is - prohibition will definitely NOT work - I'm not informed enough, clever enough or arrogant enough to think I know what the answer is.

Fair enough... they are not working. Which is why people here are so adamant against any form of gun control. It has never worked; it has always accomplished the exact opposite of what it was intended to do.

The answer, I believe, lies in public perception of firearms. As I have stated frequently, at one point in my life, one almost never heard of a gun-related crime and there were guns openly displayed everywhere. That includes school parking lots! Everyone knew a gun was there for self-defense only, and the few who didn't accept that tended to not be alive after a very short time.

Today the public seems to have an irrational fear of firearms, they are kept out of sight by legal decree, and gun crime seems to be everywhere. I believe the answer is education. When a child grows up not knowing anything about a gun except that it can kill (and video games don't help this situation; they tend to show firearms in a very skewed manner), those guns develop a mystique about them that makes them attractive. They go from being a normal tool to be respected, to being this mysterious killing device that is taboo. Youth are attracted to mystery and mystique.

Which is why gun related crimes and deaths are so much lower.

I'm not interested in gun-related crime... I am interested in crime, and especially crime where I or a loved one becomes a victim. Gun control does not suppress crime, because guns don't cause crime. People, specifically criminals, cause crime.

A person is just as dead after a fatal knife attack as they are after a fatal shooting. Can we at least agree on that?

As for the need for The Right to Bear Arms as a defence against a tyrannical government?
Do you honestly think all those guns are a defence against Armed Services intent on suppressing civilians bearing in mind all the armaments at their disposal?

It worked once.

And surely with such a perfect form of government with all its checks and balances etc and such a perfect constitution such a scenario is a moot point, isn't it?

Oh, our government is far, far, far from perfect! I'm not sure how you can even type that without injuring yourself from the hysteria. How many stories of people gunned down by the police have you seen on ATS? And yet, every gun control law that has been tried or even proposed excludes law enforcement.

We live under at least three layers of government: Federal, state, and at least one local layer. For every Federal problem you hear, there are hundreds of state and local problems. A friend of mine was recently robbed, and had a security camera installed. He gave the security videos showing the break-in to the local sheriff. They informed him there was nothing they could do, despite the fact the thieves' faces were clearly visible on the video.

The lesson is clear: don't expect the police to help. A well-placed shot to the head area would have prevented that robbery, whereas all the evidence in the world did not.

Our system of government may be infused with checks and balances to prevent corruption but the size and complexity of living in such a large country with so many levels of government also means corruption flourishes easily.

TheRedneck

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

We get big feral pigs here too as well as in NZ.

I don't know what kind of critters you guys are calling "pigs" but i do know it's not the same thing I call a "razorback."

I have raised swine for a short time. A sow can get to be several hundred pounds. Domesticated swine are still hazardous to be around, but they are controllable (mainly because they are so well-fed and fat they can't jump and charge the way a razorback can). They'll still eat anything in the slop trough, be it alive, dead, or otherwise. Some people around here will throw dead or injured fowl into the pig pen and the hogs will go wild. I personally consider that kind of cruel, but not my place to judge.

Let a domesticated hog escape and it will turn feral after a few months. At that point it is just a dangerous critter. It will attack a human if wounded or if hungry; otherwise it will tend to shy away from humans.

Let a feral hog have offspring in the wild, and each generation will become more dangerous than the last one. After about three generations, which is not long for swine, you have a razorback. They have lost all fear of humans and are no longer fat. A razorback is lean and solid, with tusks and teeth and sharp hooves. It can jump and run much higher and faster than a human. It has a voracious appetite and is not at all picky about what it eats. Its skull is thick and its hide is tough, and it comes fully equipped with a bad attitude. Bears and mountain lions avoid razorbacks. A .38 Special to the head just ticks it off.

Most razorbacks we get around here are the result of escaped swine from farms many generations ago. They are not "pigs"... no one who actually encounters one could make that mistake. They are swine, yes, but nothing like the swine found on farms.

They are edible... but tough and gamey. People don't hunt them for food. A few hunt for the thrill (fools) but most because it's better and easier to take them out in smaller numbers than to wait until the population increases.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Sorry to jump in to your discussion, but look for a classic old Australian horror/comedy called Razorback....camp and funny as heck.


ETA. Here's the trailer

a reply to: TheRedneck

Wild boar, big ass scary feral pigs, just Google some images of Aussie ones and compare to what you've seen around your neck of the woods is about as much I can add to the conversation, im guessing there quite similar to what you get in the U.S.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think it is the hormones after each generation. The offspring get different food than the domesticated parents received. But within no time you have feral razorbacks. It is like a butterfly from a caterpillar. The virtually hairless domesticated verses thick skinned with the defining razorback hair. Nature is something to witness all right.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

We get big feral pigs here too as well as in NZ.

I don't know what kind of critters you guys are calling "pigs" but i do know it's not the same thing I call a "razorback."

Pigs is just a term we use for 'razorbacks'. Don't be mistaken. They have been wild here for a century or more and are big and mean as your 'razorbacks'. A couple of hundred pounds? That's really nothing. I've hunted them. We don't normally call them Razorbacks. Just pigs, feral pigs or wild boar and sure, they have a 'razorback' and foot long tusks.

My regards,

Bally

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: TheRedneck

Wild boar, big ass scary feral pigs, just Google some images of Aussie ones and compare to what you've seen around your neck of the woods is about as much I can add to the conversation, im guessing there quite similar to what you get in the U.S.

I googled it and they are a bit smallish but still look feral.

here is one being hunted, one. I can imagine there were more.



But Hogzillas are real in Georgia and other places in the US Check this one giant out!

www.nbcnews.com...



Three or 4 times the size of the ones I am seeing in Aussie land, here are some from Texas:

www.google.com...:1577514470567&t bm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=GT2NjU63wYUagM%253A%252CrUIw05eRNKA_oM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQUsc9yIpNYrkUOlSRzip2WGAOq-g&ved=2ahUKEwi4rZWt29fmAhVAJzQIHW 6qBggQ9QEwAXoECAoQHg#imgrc=GT2NjU63wYUagM:

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: TheRedneck

Wild boar, big ass scary feral pigs, just Google some images of Aussie ones and compare to what you've seen around your neck of the woods is about as much I can add to the conversation, im guessing there quite similar to what you get in the U.S.

Similar! BS. I reckon ours are bigger mate. One would feed a yank aircraft carrier crew. You'd be lucky to drop one with a fifty cal Boy oh boy, loves me some big piggies. (ooh I mean razorbacks) (So big they made a movie about one). Got me all riled up now hope, gonna make me some bacon bits.

Bally

a reply to: Justoneman

I can only go by pics, and I'm not sure which are faked But in fairly sure they get bigger than that one in the vid.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Justoneman

I can only go by pics, and I'm not sure which are faked But in fairly sure they get bigger than that one in the vid.

At this point a "pretty sure" is a "no"!

I found a bunch to prove my point I would be ok with you reciprocating.

ETA

The ones I have pics of are bigger than some Bears I have seen too close.