New Zealand’s gun confiscation program just failed miserably

originally posted by: 40CalTone
a reply to: chr0naut

I, a person who does own, and had my handgun on me one afternoon in my own front yard, saved my wife and myself from multiple attackers with knives. Just by simply being in the "wrong place" in the wrong moment.

Some woman almost got into an accident near my home, someone road raged out and started to attack that woman. my wife tried to call 911 to report and get help. We were both attacked, and were being rushed by three individuals, at least two with out in the open knives.

my children would have woken up the next morning orphans, if I would not have defended ourselves with my legally owned handgun.
If I had a rifle closer, or only accessible at the time, and my wife was going to be stabbed, guess what I would have done... I know my wife and I would still be living, and as for the bad guys.... meh.
im not going to die, my wife will not die, my children will not be harmed, if I have the chance to act otherwise.. I have every right to defend their safety by any means necessary. because guess what, the bad guys will not turn in their guns, the bad guys will grab a knife, the bad guys will grab a baseball bat, or their illegal guns that are all over the world..... I have the right to not have to go grab a kitchen knife because someone is trying to kill me with a knife.... and HOPE that my skills are better.... why do you not understand this.... there was NOTHING else that would have saved out lives that night.. thank god my life lead up to understanding and respecting firearms and my human rights.

when, I pray not, or if, you ever come face to face with someone who wants to harm you or a loved one, I PRAY that someone near you has the means to stop that threat. because you are giving your life to the evil human beings. you are tying your hands and giving in... f#$% that. I have a reason to live, my children need their daddy, and their mommy, and I will ensure that we are here for them as long as I have a say.

I don't give a # what country you live in, there are bad people and illegal guns, or knives, or fists and bad intentions. Im not going to wait 20 or 30 minutes for the police to arrive. 16 minutes or more that night, and I literally lived 6 or 7 blocks from the police station. too much time to die waiting for me.

Wow, sounds bad.

You should move, for your family's safety.

I did, back when I lived in Australia and I noticed an increase of crimes occurring around me and my family. I counted over 50 discarded syringes along the railway lines at a nearby station, a friend (young mother and child minder) was carjacked at gun point, I had a random bomb threat against me, my car was stolen, my house ransacked, and a number of other things going on. So I moved to rural New Zealand and my family have not really had any crime issues for 20 years plus. And the lifestyle and weather here is nicer.

Sitting on a pile of ants and whining isn't really a reasonable response.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, you must fear your government. It is the patriotic thing to do!

We'll see how that works out for you. Over here, the government is supposed to fear us.

Over here, we aren't living under a balance of terror. You shouldn't have to fear government, nor should they fear you. They should administer things fairly in service to their citizens, of which they are some.

Surprisingly several hundred miles of ocean are a reasonable biological barrier for most species. Especially for the ones that humans haven't domesticated and therefore don't carry across that barrier. So New Zealand has markedly different species than Australia. We also have tight biosecurity in both countries to prevent species migration.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

A dictator is a single person who rules tyrannically over all of government.

A dictatorial government is a single entity who rules tyrannically over the population. I really don't give two hoots of a one-eyed owl about someone ruling over the government; I care about the government ruling tyrannically over me. As it is, your government now has the right to arrest and incarcerate a citizen who was previously law-abiding not for taking an illegal action, but for failing to take an action that harms them and poses no threat. Sounds like tyranny to me.

TheRedneck

So guns, in the hands of humans, with an intent to shoot, don't pose a threat to human life?

I don't think that I will throw my life away to defend the day on which garbage is collected or the color of the deodorant blocks they put in public toilets or if they open another lane on the motorway or not.

You however are reputedly free to do as you please.

Your concept of government and mine are clearly quite different. We are a little country, with a little government and we wouldn't elect someone for the role who didn't appear to have the credentials to do the actual, and largely boring, work.

a reply to: chr0naut

We can't all live in smallville and be able to feed our families. Some of the adults seem to understand that things happen whether you want them to or not. We can't stop reality. We can pretend it doesn't exist but then we get idiots like Baghdad Bob announcing no US troops when they are blowing crap up behind him while he speaks.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Armed to the teeth and still loosing. Perhaps you need a better argument for guns.

I really wish there were some way you could encounter a pack of razorbacks and survive... you have less than zero knowledge of what you are talking about. But there's not... you'd be pig slop before you could tell them they are being "uncivilized."

I live in a rural area. I have been hunting before. We hunt very few species. Ducks, deer and wild pigs. I have hunted wild pigs when I lived in Australia. I am aware that they pose a potential threat to those who go into their territory, especially during rutting season, where the males will attack.

I don't enjoy hunting, just never have. I have always felt that those who do enjoy hunting have a psychological problem, perhaps they lack the ability to empathize beyond their species or something.

I guess it's nice that you have managed to kill off everything that could threaten a human. Very "civilized" of you. I thought that was considered a no-no in ecological circles, but I could be wrong.

TheRedneck

No, humans are the apex predator here and have been for most of human history.

On islands with very finite biological resources, large predatory animals tend not to arise. These are good environments for humans to live. If coupled to good weather, they are also good environments to raise domesticated stock, which would similarly have no predators.

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: chr0naut

We can't all live in smallville and be able to feed our families. Some of the adults seem to understand that things happen whether you want them to or not. We can't stop reality. We can pretend it doesn't exist but then we get idiots like Baghdad Bob announcing no US troops when they are blowing crap up behind him while he speaks.

Canada is nearby.

They seem to have a reputation for friendliness and have natural resources and a capitalist economy that rewards incentive and work.

They also seem to have a reasonable rule of law and police force.

Sounds acceptable, even to me who lives in NZ.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm sure this self-mutilation we both seem to enjoy discharging
rotary cannon and other, longer range hardware is lost on most
of us. We start talking about unzipping receivers with wildcat
loads it'll look worse than op scars to the townies..

But I still have fond memories of Dad rotating me off the Marlin
lever .22 to the 200 yarder with the Missouri Mule. That 30-06 was
pushed through a (honest-to-Set) star barrel and no pressure breaks,
if you remember the latter attribute. It was a mittful of fizz when I
was 14, and wouldn't trade the afternoon for all the contraband in
Bolivia. An inch of loose Lake City ball out of the box missing and the
use of my blue right arm for a week. Good times... and the biggest
joke was that starred Springfield was what they used at the VFW for
honor guard ... blanks otherwise. Mind blown.

I didn't even know until I was ten years older that the weapon I trained
on was probably five or ten in a million. Happy New Year, Red and you all:
and I regularly neglect how grateful I am for the space taken up.

a reply to: chr0naut

So I moved to rural New Zealand ….

You have a point, I have moved. But im not going to run from my home, to New Zealand.... lol
Sometimes if you find yourself in an ant hill, you should just call an exterminator.. instead of running, and letting the next guy or generation get bit up on his way through. because the ants will always bite, in this case, and only multiply and get worse..

originally posted by: 40CalTone
a reply to: chr0naut

So I moved to rural New Zealand ….

You have a point, I have moved. But im not going to run from my home, to New Zealand.... lol
Sometimes if you find yourself in an ant hill, you should just call an exterminator.. instead of running, and letting the next guy or generation get bit up on his way through. because the ants will always bite, in this case, and only multiply and get worse..

'Rambo, Last Blood' was a movie. Also, didn't end well for anyone.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?


TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

Where is a fair and safe society please do tell. Guantanamo Bay?

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

Where the rule of law in a gentle society defends people.

So you're saying Guantanamo bay, as I mentioned. Thank you.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: chr0naut

We can't all live in smallville and be able to feed our families. Some of the adults seem to understand that things happen whether you want them to or not. We can't stop reality. We can pretend it doesn't exist but then we get idiots like Baghdad Bob announcing no US troops when they are blowing crap up behind him while he speaks.

Canada is nearby.

They seem to have a reputation for friendliness and have natural resources and a capitalist economy that rewards incentive and work.

They also seem to have a reasonable rule of law and police force.

Sounds acceptable, even to me who lives in NZ.

Have you ever heard of Polar Bears and Grizzlies? They aren't just mascots, you would need a 50 caliber Elephant gun to stop those beasts. Those Canadians are excellent with an "assault rifle" by your definition anyway. And one moody Moose will wreck havoc like a mob in Baltimore MD. I think you picked a bad analogy. Not many people can live in isolated villages on a small island where the wild animals are wiped out that eat humans.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?


TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

Where is a fair and safe society please do tell. Guantanamo Bay?

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

Where the rule of law in a gentle society defends people.

So you're saying Guantanamo bay, as I mentioned. Thank you.

It says something about you that you think a prison, one under a cloud of consistent human rights abuses, is an example of a fair and safe society.

Sad.

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: chr0naut

We can't all live in smallville and be able to feed our families. Some of the adults seem to understand that things happen whether you want them to or not. We can't stop reality. We can pretend it doesn't exist but then we get idiots like Baghdad Bob announcing no US troops when they are blowing crap up behind him while he speaks.

Canada is nearby.

They seem to have a reputation for friendliness and have natural resources and a capitalist economy that rewards incentive and work.

They also seem to have a reasonable rule of law and police force.

Sounds acceptable, even to me who lives in NZ.

Have you ever heard of Polar Bears and Grizzlies? They aren't just mascots, you would need a 50 caliber Elephant gun to stop those beasts. Those Canadians are excellent with an "assault rifle" by your definition anyway. And one moody Moose will wreck havoc like a mob in Baltimore MD. I think you picked a bad analogy. Not many people can live in isolated villages on a small island where the wild animals are wiped out that eat humans.

Polar Bears are an endangered species and have protected status in Canada. Shooting one is not a good idea. Much better to avoid where possible.

Also, there were never any wild animals that predate on humans here in New Zealand. They weren't wiped out because there weren't any.

The only possible predator is a bird called the Cassowary and there have always been few of them, in the deepest forests, and they normally avoid humans.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?


TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

Where is a fair and safe society please do tell. Guantanamo Bay?

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

Where the rule of law in a gentle society defends people.

So you're saying Guantanamo bay, as I mentioned. Thank you.

It says something about you that you think a prison, one under a cloud of consistent human rights abuses, is an example of a fair and safe society.

Sad.

Actually no, I was thinking exactly the opposite. It's your own words. You trying to sell a prison as normal and acceptable.

a reply to: chr0naut

Yes because a wolf and a wild pig is an apples to apples comparison...

most hunters that have spent their life in the woods have never seen a wild wolf...

Most hunters with any time in the woods have crossed paths with wild pigs and god help you if its a razor back and your not packing serious heat.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?


TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

Where is a fair and safe society please do tell. Guantanamo Bay?

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

Where the rule of law in a gentle society defends people.

So you're saying Guantanamo bay, as I mentioned. Thank you.

It says something about you that you think a prison, one under a cloud of consistent human rights abuses, is an example of a fair and safe society.

Sad.

Actually no, I was thinking exactly the opposite. It's your own words.

I never said that Guantanamo Bay was a fair and safe society. Not once.

That was what you said - twice.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ok, for the sake of the argument we accept that the presence of feral hogs requires people to carry guns.

How many feral hogs are there in New York City?
How many feral hogs are there in Chicago?
How many feral hogs are there in downtown LA?

I suspect the answer is none in any of them, but I could be wrong.

So why would you NEED a gun to protect yourself or your land etc from animals such as wild feral hogs if there's none there?

I understand that introducing gun laws like we have in the UK and New Zealand etc is impossible in the US.
But surely the shear number of gun related deaths in the US means that something needs to be done?
Current laws simply aren't working.

I don't know what the answer is - prohibition will definitely NOT work - I'm not informed enough, clever enough or arrogant enough to think I know what the answer is.

But comparing US gun laws with those of other nations is absolutely ridiculous.

There are that many guns etc in circulation in the US that prohibition would probably result in criminals having a # load of guns and normal, everyday law abiding citizens being at a serious disadvantage.
But its not like that in most other country's, there simply isn't the number of guns etc in circulation or available.
Which is why gun related crimes and deaths are so much lower.

As for the need for The Right to Bear Arms as a defence against a tyrannical government?
Do you honestly think all those guns are a defence against Armed Services intent on suppressing civilians bearing in mind all the armaments at their disposal?
And surely with such a perfect form of government with all its checks and balances etc and such a perfect constitution such a scenario is a moot point, isn't it?

Comparing gun laws in the US and NZ/UK etc is a pointless exercise, the differences in requirements, culture and psyche are so vast.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes because a wolf and a wild pig is an apples to apples comparison...

most hunters that have spent their life in the woods have never seen a wild wolf...

Most hunters with any time in the woods have crossed paths with wild pigs and god help you if its a razor back and your not packing serious heat.

It isn't like in the movie, or the urban legends. It's a pig. More people are killed handling domestic cattle.

Safety with Farm Animals - NASD

Educate yourself about "razorbacks": Razorback
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There have only been 5 deaths from pig attacks in the US between 1825 and 2012 that's 187 years. Three of those 5 deaths were because the inept hunters had wounded the pig first.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes because a wolf and a wild pig is an apples to apples comparison...

most hunters that have spent their life in the woods have never seen a wild wolf...

Most hunters with any time in the woods have crossed paths with wild pigs and god help you if its a razor back and your not packing serious heat.

'Razorback' is not a species of pig.

You guys have your foot in your mouth and are continuing to swallow. The final outcome can only be haggis!

originally posted by: Freeborn
Ok, for the sake of the argument we accept that the presence of feral hogs requires people to carry guns.

How many feral hogs Are there in New York City?
How many feral hogs are there in Chicago?
How many feral hogs are there in downtown LA?

I suspect the answer is none in any of them, but I could be wrong.

So why would you NEED a gun to protect yourself or your land etc from animals such as wild feral hogs if there's none there?

I understand that introducing gun laws like we have in the UK and New Zealand etc is impossible in the US.
But surely the shear number of gun related deaths in the US means that something needs to be done?
Current laws simply aren't working.

I don't know what the answer is - prohibition will definitely NOT work - I'm not informed enough, clever enough or arrogant enough to think I know what the answer is.

But comparing US gun laws with those of other nations is absolutely ridiculous.

There are that many guns etc in circulation in the US that prohibition would probably result in criminals having a # load of guns and normal, everyday law abiding citizens being at a serious disadvantage.
But its not like that in most other country's, there simply isn't the number of guns etc in circulation or available.
Which is why gun related crimes and deaths are so much lower.

As for the need for The Right to Bear Arms as a defence against a tyrannical government?
Do you honestly think all those guns are a defence against Armed Services intent on suppressing civilians bearing in mind all the armaments at their disposal?
And surely with such a perfect form of government with all its checks and balances etc and such a perfect constitution such a scenario is a moot point, isn't it?

Comparing gun laws in the US and NZ/UK etc is a pointless exercise, the differences in requirements, culture and psyche are so vast.

Everything you said sounds reasonable to me.

originally posted by: chr0naut

But the area classifications are arbitrary to the argument if you can just buy a gun elsewhere and drive it into the area with stricter gun controls. The regulations sort of mean nothing if they are that easy to bypass.

But I do agree. Guns aren't the problem. They can't self actuate. The real problem is people with guns and intent to use them. Remove any one of those things and gun deaths must drop significantly.

Gun death to be replaced by Shillelagh deaths, people will kill. Out of the 13,000 people murdered about 9,000 is gang related, less than 300 of these is rifle of all kinds to include AR in a population of 330 million.

Not sure why we are even debating this... Lets see , you said we need to remove any one of these... OK lets remove gang members that would solve a good amount right off the bat.