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What would YOU have done???

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posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 07:37 AM
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To sum it up and to move on because I think the three sides here are pretty much in agreement, if only on one or two things.

The OP stated:

In reading the article it looks as though this may not have been the first time the dog, and it's hybrid-wolf sibling had gotten out and were roaming around.


So it is fair to say the dog was not a habitual nuisance.

Even ACC said:

“I understand that the dog going through that person’s trash was probably frustrating, but there were so many other options that could have been taken. They could have called animal control or even called us. We house strays and would have held her for the owner. Then they could have had a discussion and resolved it.” Read more here: www.sunherald.com...=cpy


The OP goes on to state:


At first glance this act may seem cruel and unreasonable, and I suspect many here will agree. However, I suspect some may also gain some insight into the "other" point of view.
And at the end:

I'm sorry for the man's loss, but I blame the death on the owner, not the dog. What say you??


Many of us shared our view of the situation in general, and most opinions are based on personal experiences. Good experiences or bad experiences, they shape our mind and thoughts, and often affect our behavior. Dealing with common situations and problems with pet ownership, management, and control, is a forum to itself. I can't say that I disagree with anything that anyone has said here in general. But this particular case hints at something that is not spoken of in this thread and could actually be a thread of its own.

I can't help but believe that the owner knows who killed his dog. I think there was bad blood between him and this guy, and that killing the dog was done out of spite, and to send a message. In the movies he would use the DNA from the note to prove the identify of the person, then the plot would thicken, or it would be the start of a series of episodes, where they keep seeking out revenge, like White Spy, Black Spy.


edit on 24-12-2019 by NightSkyeB4Dawn because: Corrected post.




posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 07:55 AM
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It does seem pretty unreasonable to shoot an animal going through garbage, at 10 months it’s not quite full grown either. Did the guy even attempt to approach the animal to identify it, etc or just simply point and shoot? Was he aware of the animals collar before shooting it?

That said it’s his property and it’s probably the safest option for him to simply shoot first.

The note about local leash laws seems to be salt in the wound.

I had a large (Dalmatian/Great Dane mix) dog run right up to me while in rural part of the states on my families property (yikes!). My first thought was to calm the animal, and offer it food and water which it ate. I was now able to grab it’s collar and get it’s ID info, called the local authorities and after a database check (maybe 30 minutes) got the owners name and address. Walked the dog to the owners property (not home) and after waiting maybe 20 minutes (it was quite cold outside) started to head out and left a note. The owner pulled into his driveway first upset to see a person on his porch and quickly relieved to find his dog who ran off two days prior.

I don’t know if shooting the animal was an option in my state, but it never crossed my mind throughout the experience.
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: Oleandra88

I agree 100%.

The original question by FlyingDisc was "what would you do?"
I would do what I have always done which is get the Pup an try to find it's owners. I've done it many times over with all kinds of breeds. The issue here tho an I've had this also happen in the past with two people who have owned Wolf-hybrids is;
If the owner isn't taking care of them responsibly I'm making that call to the game commission. I've seen too many people chose this animal for all the wrong reasons an the animal suffers.

On the flip side I've also owned dogs an one in particular was a "runner".
Despite our heroic efforts this guy would occasionally jail-break an go visiting all the neighborhood kids. Being semi-rural this meant he went miles. I never NOT knew he could be shot on sight.

Accidents do happen an pets DO do things they shouldn't an altho the property owner who shot him also acted badly afterwards I can't find actual fault with his actions. If your animal gets loose it's always a 50/50 chance they will get dead. Goats, horses, dogs, cats it makes no difference.
The buck stops with the owner.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 10:08 AM
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a reply to: Caver78

Reminds me of the story of the one sheep that went astray and the Shepard that lovingly went to retrieve it.

My dogs are good dogs. Said by everyone that has ever owned a pet, they just happen to be Huskies. As great as they are with most of their commands, recall is a constant battle. I get about 50% success if they are alone and 0.1% success if they are in a group. I have only had the mother and father for two years, and I am seeing an amazing improvement as they mature. The brats are another story. I trust they too will mellow out with time, but right now the call of the 100 acre woods is way too strong.

My fear is not neighbors or their animals. Their animals spend so much time on my property that my dogs think they, like them, belong there. The 100 acre woods and I have a love hate relationship. There is much I love about it, but I am very much aware of all of its dangers. Unfortunately, my dogs are not aware of all the dangers in those woods, and a lot of those dangers have the potential to be deadly.

I think most of us, especially those of us with animals and pets, agree that the ultimate responsibility falls square on the shoulders of the owner. As you said, accidents happen, things go awry. Few of us have super powers that can prevent these things from happening, and most of us are willing to take responsibility if our animal strays and are accepting of the circumstances if it does not make it home.

I just can't condone the needless taking of an animal's life, just because you can.

I thank you for being kind. Your neighbors are lucky. I have a couple mean, ornery, cantankerous, neighbors, but none of them would ever shoot an animal just because it crossed their property line. I cannot give that same assurance to a two legged creature that steps over the line. All those Affidavit of No Trespassing signs are not for the animals.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Caver78
I agree. I think the whole thing boils down to this:

A lawful right was exercised.
Was it necessary?
I do not know, I was not there.

With such a young puppy, I would have tried to fetch it and get it home before just shooting it. On the other side, the shooter had the right to shoot it, but I wrote before that exercising a given right is not always the best solution.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

This scenario is dangerous…. the existence of a Canine-Human bond could become an impactfull piece of evidence in a 2nd Degree Murder case.... shooting my Dog takes you off my Christmas Card List... this is a bad bad scenario for me …. eye-for-an-eye...tooth-for-a-tooth......no I cannot postulate any further.

Tough situation to find one-self in IMHO....potentially life altering.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: Oleandra88

Well we disagree on a few things as I said in my very first post
I would never consider shooting a dog. Way to many other ways
of dealing with a dog or even a pack of dogs.

Back in the 90s I was cut'n thru this neighbor on a Sunday morning
after go'n home with " A friend". Bright sunny morning walk'n a neighbor
hood sidewalk and boom I froze in my footsteps. Two big ass
rottweilers roaming free in this yard and all eyes met at once. I'm
frozen not in fear but the second the thought hits me, "What am I
gonna do?"

Here they both come from maybe 20 yards between us at the most.
I turned and bolted towards the nearest front door of whoever's house
was closest. Think'n I hope it's open. I only got to the middle of the
street their both growling.

Then I figured if the door is locked I'm finished. At that second
I stopped turned and faced these two behemoth dogs with maybe
ten yards left between us. And I was gonna fight. Suddenly I drew
a deep breath and whistled as loud and as high pitch as I could
muster.

You know those two jackasses stopped with maybe 5 yards
between us? And the second they froze I charged straight at em
whistling like a SOB. I started laughing how funny the look on their
faces went, full of fear. And the way they turned and went lumbering
off Squealing and howling around the corner. Like I was Satan himself.

Then I noticed this older guy down the street a bit watering his
rose bushes. He saw the whole thing and as I just walked by like
nothing happened he say's.

" Man I haven't ever seen anything like that before". As I passed
I said " Hell mister I haven't ever done anything like that before"

LUCKY1 is all he said.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: carsforkids

So a couple things...

First, you do realize a Rottweiler is a herding dog, not an attack dog, right? The Rottweiler breed is founded upon being able to control livestock, not attack them. This is a common misconception about Rottweilers brought on by movies like The Omen and others. When Rottweiler's are used as guard dogs they rarely attack. They snarl like they're going to attack, but this is just a facade to intimidate their subject. What happens most often when Rottweilers are used as guard dogs is they will hold their subject at bay until someone else arrives.

You've highlighted a great example of how the movie industry has royally screwed up dog/owner relationships for decades by portraying a breed one way when they really aren't that way in real life. A classic example of this is the Bull Terrier as "Spuds MacKenzie"; Bull Terriers are actually very difficult pets and often not very tame. Another example is Jack Russell Terriers (think: Fraser), or Dalmatians (Think: 101 Dalmatians)...and the list goes on. You know the dog most likely to bite/attack someone? The Taco Bell, Chihuahua, breed. (another misunderstood breed thanks to TV)

But back to Rottweilers; in your case you most likely encountered two immature Rott's and you, rather than they, unknowingly used their own control tactic of fear against them. You didn't react the way they expected, and it scared them.

Throughout this thread you've taken a pretty strong tone against my OP. That's fine, I asked for it, but I'll bet there's something you didn't know. I actually love dogs, and in addition to cattle, I bred and trained cross-trained (upland and water) Field Trial Labrador Retrievers for years. I've kind have gotten out of the breeding / training anymore just due to time constraints, and my last beloved Lab crossed Rainbow Bridge just last summer. Still though, I have dogs which we've trained (an Australian Cattle Dog, and an Australian Shepard). I don't remember ever not having dogs in my lifetime.

The take away here is; I don't take shooting a dog lightly, and it would never be my first choice or action. I feel I'm actually quite knowledgeable about dogs and breeds, traits and characteristics. Equally I realize how much a pet means to its owner, but sometimes there are bad owners. And, bad owners make for dogs with bad habits. And dogs with bad habits can get into some expensive trouble real fast. Sadly, the old adage about not being able to teach an old dog new tricks is often true. Once an animal gets a taste of blood no amount of training will ever get that taste out of their mouth, or correct their behavior. When you see a strange animal, especially one with strong predatory instinct like a wolf, you don't know what taste that dog has in it's mouth. Is it shoot on sight? No, of course not! Would there be a warning shot? Likely (unless they were already in the cattle; then no, there wouldn't be). Would the owner get talked to before hand? Absolutely...if this was possible.

Just some thoughts for your consideration.
edit on 12/24/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 01:45 PM
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nm
edit on 24-12-2019 by drussell41 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I'd have shot it.

...but, if I knew who the owner was, I'd have had the good manners to knock on their door, and tell the "whys and wherefores" of it.

Wolf-dogs are not your average every day mutt. It was irresponsible of the owner to allow them to roam like that.

Nope. I have no doubts about what I'd have done...have done. I've shot dogs that were roaming in packs harassing horses and getting into things that they shouldn't.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: Bigburgh

Exactly.

It's a crappy situation, but I'm not going to take the risk of someone, maybe me, maybe someone near and dear to me, getting hurt by the dog.

It's really that simple. Keep your dog contained and controlled, and this issue never comes up.



posted on Dec, 24 2019 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: Oleandra88
And if you go out and say things like you would kill his whole family, that makes you the crazy and dangerous one.

Start watching @ 02:18

Tell me it doesn't sound like this guy watches too many movies.


I'd kill his whole family, burn his (damn house) down, and kill all his friends too.


Reeeeeeeeeee


edit on 24-12-2019 by Deplorable because: In case you don't want to look for his original movie line




posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

If you care about your dog, IMHO you shouldn't let it run loose. It can get lost, get hit by a car, attacked by other dogs etc. If someone shoots a dog on their property its the fault of the owner for not keeping their dog safe.



posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Thanks to you an Oleandra88!

Yeah, dogs escape an usually around here they aren't usually serial offenders. I've rounded up my fair share an thankfully most had tags, the ones that didn't someone knew eventually who they belonged to. Every single time the owners were mortified an past delirious their dog was returned. Oddly enough it was always my housecats that would raise the alarm sending me outside to go check it out. Our dogs were obviously lazy slugs.
LOL!

Huskies are a handful! Smart an absolutely need some job or I agree they go nuts. Beautiful animals, but not for everyone.



posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: openminded2011

Even the best animal owners have had the unfortunate experience of an animal getting loose. I don't think my neighbors are irresponsible. I think they make the best effort they can within their means to keep their animals on property. Pens and fences break. Animals get out, even in areas where there are paid help and farmhands.

I don't think anyone is saying they have a problem with an animal that is a threat being put down. I think most everyone agrees it is the ultimate responsibility of the owner for the actions of their animals.

I know that most post are generalizations and they are not discussing the actual case in the post, but It disturbs me that so many seem to be saying that they would, and they feel justified in killing a neighbor's animal for doing nothing more than straying across their property line.

Now there are some things that I agree are shootable offenses. I just don't think this was one of them.

For comic relief on this Christmas morn.


Merry Christmas all.



posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Warning: Possible unpleasant article and commentary ahead! Proceed at your own risk.

This topic should be good for some discussion / debate.

Missouri couple's dog shot and killed by landowner while running around and getting into garbage.

The dog, a "wolfdog" (or cross between a gray/timber wolf and a canine) had left his owner's 10 acre property and was shot by another landowner while rummaging through his garbage. The shooter then sent the owner the dog's collar and an anonymous note in the mail indicating he had shot the dog and reminding the owner of local leash laws.

In reading the article it looks as though this may not have been the first time the dog, and it's hybrid-wolf sibling had gotten out and were roaming around.




Chad Stricker spent six days searching for his 10-month-old wolfdog, Nymeria, in the Ozona community in rural Pearl River County.

Nymeria had gone missing after her usual night roaming of Stricker’s 10-acre property with her older brother, Ghost.

Ghost, a white wolf-hybrid dog, came back early Saturday night without his sister.


Couple's dog shot

So, what would YOU do as a landowner in this circumstance??? Who was wrong here?

At first glance this act may seem cruel and unreasonable, and I suspect many here will agree. However, I suspect some may also gain some insight into the "other" point of view.

So, without further adieu, here's what I would have done. Would I have shot the dog? Maybe...possibly even probably. Would I have attempted to see if the dog was a pet or not? Yes, most likely, but this would have had little to do with my ultimate decision.

I likely first, given the chance, would have attempted to identify the dog and its owner. And then I would have contacted the owner if I could find them and warned them not to let their dogs roam free off their property (and I have done this on more than a couple occasions. I was also very clear about the likely result if they failed to keep their dogs on their property (i.e. they would be shot)).

The article says the dog was a "sweetheart", but everyone says that about their dog. This dog was also part Wolf too. Now, being a Wolf will instantly up your chances of getting shot around here! Sweetheart or not!

Now, if the dog showed up repeatedly (which the article doesn't mention), or if the dog acted like it was going to attack...it would have been DRT (Dead Right There).

I'm sure my view may seem cruel, but all you have to do is lose a couple calves or a cow to a pack of dogs, a wolf or some coyotes to have a completely different mindset. I'm a dog lover, but I make sure my dogs stay where they belong, and I fully realize if they don't they too are at risk of being shot. Roaming dogs is never a good thing. Plus, if the wolf-dog was in the garbage this would be an indicator the dog is possibly hungry...which is even more risk to the livestock.

One thing I wouldn't have done in this scenario was leave an anonymous note. That's just chickenS#! I would have delivered the dog, and his collar, back to the owner and explained what happened...like any responsible landowner should do. It's a serious matter, and it deserves serious attention.

I'm sorry for the man's loss, but I blame the death on the owner, not the dog.

What say you??


I do not believe a death sentence is a fair punishment for an animal rummaging through trash. If it had killed my animals and continued doing so then yes, death would be the answer since the owner can’t prevent the dog from entering my property. But rummaging through trash? Death? Totally ridiculous. I would have gotten to know the dog if it were friendly but I’m a dog lover and could never kill one so easily. I also would have gotten contact info for the owners to inform them their dog is loose again. Some dogs love adventure. I can leave my front door wide open, leave home all day and come back and my dog would still be in the house. I can understand both types of dogs just as there are different types of humans.



posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 12:10 PM
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We used BB guns or pellet guns for feral cats and stray dogs. Coyotes get the .22
Losing a calf, goat, chicken is no fun. A friend of mine had a neighbor's loose pit bull come in through the front door of her house and threaten her kids. The guy was able to retrieve his dog but it could have gone bad.
Sucks to have you dog shot but it was the owners responsibility to keep his dogs on his property.



posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 02:53 PM
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We have become a very critical and intolerant lot. I hate to think what would happen if the challenge, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone", was given today.

Out here folk have affidavit of no trespassing signs all over the place. People, especially kids, love to ride their four wheelers and dirt bikes down through the woods. None of the uninhabited land is public land. All of the acreage is not fenced, and some of the property lines are invisible. From what I am hearing, it is the parents responsibility to stop their children from breaking the law and trespassing on other peoples property, so if one of the neighbors shoots and kills a child, it is completely within his rights. No problem at all. Next time, keep your kid off other people's property.

Apples and oranges? Not as far apart as you may think.

Whether it's legal to shoot or kill trespassers is one of our most common property law questions. Short answer: generally only in self-defense and in fear of bodily harm or death. And while we normally don't think of animal trespassers in this light, perhaps we should.

blogs.findlaw.com...

Again, we are not talking about threat of life or limb. We are talking about a simple case of trespassing and a possible nuisance. If we are so intolerant of animals that can't read, or know that it is breaking a law, then children with deliberate intent, and fully aware they are committing an illegal act, don't stand a chance in this court.



posted on Dec, 25 2019 @ 04:59 PM
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Subaru realizes the love and connection that many have for their animals, but they got the understanding compassionate neighbor part wrong big time.



True story. I have a neighbor up the street from me that admits he is a cranky old fart. No one ever thought he would have a pet. A stray wandered onto his property and he was pissed. He held it begrudgingly, while angrily calling around trying to locate the owner. It wasn't long before, unbeknownst to him, he became the owner. When he starting referring to it as Spike, instead of that dog that showed up on his property, we all knew the die was cast.



posted on Dec, 26 2019 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: carsforkids

Bruh you need to see a shrink or something. If what you said is "no brag, just fact", then you are clinically insane.



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