Strange Times

I am having a hard time seeing how we, as Americans, have any sort of bright or enlightened future upon us. First, and most importantly, I have never seen our society so divided before. I find it ridiculous that most can not see that there is some sort of twisted agenda that has been set in place to erode the moral fabric of America (many examples that I’d rather not dive into specifically, but it’s obvious). Throughout history, almost every society that embraced extreme leftist ideology has collapsed from within.

I challenge everyone to look around our major cities and try and compare them the 40s and 50s, hell even the early 60s. The world, especially the US of A, was much more conservative back then. What has happened since? From late 60s until today, hmm, it isn’t too difficult to determine that we have been on a downward slope thanks to the adoption of extreme liberal ideals. Think of it as a sickness that infects a host and slowly kills it, similar to cancer, and my friends we are in the final stages. I mean look around us, what is happening today would be unthought of only a decade or two ago? In other words, it's rapidly advancing to such a point that we are actually flirting with socialism, giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses, and have developed Marxist ideology in terms of the toxic PC culture that is further destroying our society. Interesting note, Marx actually used political correctness as a means to politically neuter his society and dissuade free speech and individualism (a lot of this starts in schools, where kids have been brainwashed for decades).

On top of that, we are sitting on the precipice of disaster in terms of our outrageous national and worldwide debt, which has been caused by those at the top who have abused us for decades (can we all at least agree on that?). I truly believe that all of this is connected and is being orchestrated by those who want to destroy everything that once made us great so that we can be controlled much easier (destroy our culture, ideals, and make us completely dependent on them). Now, this is not a post to bash Dems, as I think there are people from all political groups involved in this and classic liberalism isn’t a bad thing. I’m talking extremes here.

I personally fear that this is only the tip of the iceberg and that things are about to get much worse. As the economy slows down, money tightens, and our population becomes so diverse (and extreme left leaning) that we have difficulty agreeing on anything, hmm, it’s going to be a potentially disastrous situation. My question is this, how in the hell can we possibly come together as Americans when large fragments of our society have abandoned the very culture and moral code that made us a great nation? How can a society that has been so masterfully manipulated and conditioned to vehemently disagree with any opposing opinion other than their own possibly come to rational decisions on how to deal with our many escalating problems? What’s the endgame? Are we who can see through all of this destined to become outcasts in a society that hardly resembles itself anymore?

a reply to: Hello12345

I have accepted that things will necessarily get worse before they get better. Sometimes we just have to hit rock bottom, suffer the natural consequences for our words, actions and inactions, and learn from our mistakes.

And, yes, probably a catastrophe of some kind -- whether political, societal, or natural -- that puts us all on a level playing field, and our previous individual first world problems will be replaced with more universal primary needs.

We'll get a big dose of perspective.

On the plus side, people prove again and again that we are at our best in crises, with our hearts in the right place, and acting accordingly. I'd say 99% of the division is manufactured, and much of the outrage is faux outrage. It will be forgotten when and where necessary and appropriate.

So there is hope... worst case scenario may be the best case scenario in the final analysis.

a reply to: Boadicea

Great response, that’s kind of where I am at. However, I have to admit that the thought of chaos, although needed to right the ship, is still concerning. We’ve certainly lost our way, but as you said, humans are a resilient bunch.

originally posted by: Hello12345
I am having a hard time seeing how we, as Americans, have any sort of bright or enlightened future upon us. First, and most importantly, I have never seen our society so divided before.

Things change, go through cycles. Our Civil War wasn't actually all that long ago, and we fought it, and we're still here. People were rioting in the streets and college students were getting killed over the Vietnam War. And we're still here. The country was designed to be flexible and adapt to changes as they appear. It's a messy business, however, still preferable to armed revolution or a military overthrow. Much more conducive to making a buck.

a reply to: Hello12345

I've heard it argued after WWII the United States was the biggest manufacturer on the planet. As result the United States experience growth through the 60s that was an aberration one time event. The 70's started to suck because gasoline was so expensive for no reason. Interest rates for 18% because Volker was an a hole. And then the 80s got better with the normalization of interest rates and gasoline. The 90s were an insanely good time because of growth of the Internet and the once in a lifetime event of the Internet build-out.

But something dark and sinister happened in the 90s. The Chinese pegged the Yuan 6 to 1 against the dollar. So no matter how good the US economy got the Chinese have completely unfair advantage when it came to manufacturing. The dollar is a unit of labor cost. Pegging the Yuan to the dollar means a CEO gets 6 Chinese workers for every one American worker. It's probably 4 to 1 because of the cost of transportation from China to the US. But no one person can compete with 4 Chinese workers. The result has been practically every single factory and manufacturing job for mass goods has gone to China. All these good paying jobs are gone forever! We have been suffering ever since.

Supposedly, with self-driving trucks, millions of truck driver jobs are about to go away. And AI and other forms of automation will make the American worker obsolete. So it begs the question if every manufacturing job is in China and every other service job is done by AI then what will workers do? It's a bit of a problem because with out having workers with wages nobody has any money to be consumer. Having no consumers is a big anchor on economic growth.

Here presidential candidate Andrew Yang explains what the disaster will be when self-driving trunks destroy millions of jobs:

*deleted*

originally posted by: Hello12345
I challenge everyone to look around our major cities and try and compare them the 40s and 50s, hell even the early 60s. The world, especially the US of A, was much more conservative back then. What has happened since? From late 60s until today, hmm, it isn’t too difficult to determine that we have been on a downward slope thanks to the adoption of extreme liberal ideals. Think of it as a sickness....

There are two different Americas.

There's the 1960's America of the White Middle Class Male: father worked, mother stayed home with the kids and often had a maid. Everyone lived in smaller neighborhoods and could leave their doors unlocked. (By the way, I was born in '49, so I do remember these eras.)

Then there was the OTHER America of the 1960's... when women needed male co-signers, when Native Americans could'n't vote (before 1963), when Blacks lived in slums and Hispanics had barrios and couldn't move into White areas. When women and minorities could never advance to leadership positions over White men (been there, got that tee shirt), when lack of birth control led to abortions and deaths... when the sky was gray with pollution and polluted rivers caught fire.

When minorities and Jews and gays and atheists and pagans lived in fear of lynching.

Frankly, the world's gotten a lot better. The "wonderful fifties" never really existed except in movies.

a reply to: Byrd

It’s funny, America didn't have all of these issues associated with it that it does today. Do you not see that America back then was prosperous, but now it is eroding? Good sir or Mam, what exactly makes America better today? Our crime rate? Our declining school system? Our lack of morals? Tell me how is it remotely better when we are one bad move away from tanking the economy. Extreme liberalism had never worked, look historically, and it sure as hell isn't working now.

originally posted by: Hello12345
a reply to: Byrd

It’s funny, America didn't have all of these issues associated with it that it does today.

Oh it did.

But if you were White and male, you benefited from these policies.

Do you not see that America back then was prosperous, but now it is eroding?

Wealth inequity was not caused by minorities and women starting to get the same opportunities and rights as White men. It's a repeat of "The Gilded Age" (look it up) when most of the wealth was in the hands of the Robber Barons and we were told we should be glad to work for pennies a day so that they could keep their money.

The wealthy are keeping more of their money... and now more of our money (here's some data) voxeu.org...

Good sir or Mam, what exactly makes America better today? Our crime rate?

...which has been steadily decreasing. Here's a convenient link, but you can research this for yourself... go to the raw statistics; not someone's interpretation: www.pewresearch.org...

Our declining school system?

Which is caused by wealth inequality... In order to satisfy the system, school resources are going to pay administrators and sports... teachers no longer have class sizes of 15 or 20 (common in the 50's) but are trying to teach 30 to 40 kids every day. Also, kids are dealing with a very different set of problems these days.

Our lack of morals?

I submit that we're MORE moral now.

For instance... is it moral for a man to beat his wife? I'd say "no"...but it was actually a common and accepted practice in the 50's and 60's and is even referred to (jokingly) in ads and on tv and in movies.

Is it moral to bomb a church or school to keep Black kids from attending and integrating a school? I remember the ugly scenes when Ruby Bridges went to a White school.

I agree that some old standards need to be changed -- it used to be against the law to run medicine as a "for-profit" (capitalistic model) operation. It was essentially a form of socialism, where everyone got treated and the poor paid what they could or were taken care of as a charitable obligation. That changed in 1973.

Tell me how is it remotely better when we are one bad move away from tanking the economy.

The economy is extremely complex, and America's economy is tied into the world's economy. We dodged several bullets with some controversial bailouts in the past, but I'm not sure that the current crop of advisors has the moxie to deal with it. We can change that by electing people who pick better economists and trade advisors.

Extreme liberalism had never worked, look historically, and it sure as hell isn't working now.

Actually, it HAS worked and worked quite well.

Take a look at the hardcore Islamic nations of today -- those laws haven't changed much in 500 years. How would you, a modern man, enjoy living under those laws?

Or here in America. Liberal values put an end to the witch trials (my husband's ancestor was one of the ones killed at Salem). Liberal values made sweatshops illegal. Liberalism is responsible for the 40 hour work week. Liberalism put an end to being put in the stocks for not going to church. Liberalism is responsible for the end of debtors prisons (at one time they could put you in prison if you didn't pay your bills on time.) Liberalism allows Whites ad Blacks and Asians and Hispanics to walk into the same restaurant and eat a meal (I remember going into a diner with a Black friend once and the scowls and bad service we got because I brought "one of THOSE" people with me.)

Liberalism gave us birth control. It gave school breakfast programs for kids whose families had no food (so we don't have kids fainting from hunger... as I remember from the "good old fifties".) Liberalism gave us rules that mean your landlord has to maintain their property (and if it's a hazard, they can't lease it to you.)

Liberalism put a stop to the genocide of Native Americans (something important for all of us who have Native American ancestors.) Liberalism put a stop to ghetto-izing Italians and Irish and put an end to the indentured servitude laws.

Liberalism made employers responsible for medical bills if their work conditions are hazardous and one of their employees is hurt. Liberals also put a stop to air pollution
...and on that last point. THIS link shows Los Angeles at two different times (I was actually there in both time periods)
cires1.colorado.edu...
The first is the result of the conservatives/capitalists -- it's just a reality that nobody's going to put in a lot of pollution controls unless they HAVE to -- the second is after the liberals went "extreme" and taxed and fined and did all sorts of things.

I frankly prefer the world on the right, having lived in both.

What about you? Would you prefer the sweatshops, the robber barons, the 80 hour work weeks, caning and imprisonment if you didn't go to the "right" church or didn't go to church, and so on and so forth?

Maybe you would. I've been there. Respectfully, I wouldn't go back... and you probably wouldn't either IF you were anybody but a White male.