AID Money for Ukraine was Ordered to be Frozen 90 mins After Call

Theres no denying that Trump did this to hold out for the quid pro quo. He only released the money after he found out he was busted. How can any of you deny this? What other reason is there? The mental gymnastics ought to be gold medal worthy in here.

Trump's budget officials ordered the Pentagon to deny Ukraine aid 90 minutes after Ukraine call, new documents found

Officials in the Office of Management and Budget reportedly began ordering the Pentagon to freeze aid agreements to Ukraine around 90 minutes after President Donald Trump's July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

The order to freeze aid was revealed in a new trove of documents that were released by a court in response to a FOIA lawsuit after the impeachment vote, detailing an email sent shortly after the call in which OMB official Mike Duffey ordered Pentagon officials to not install new defense aid obligations.

a reply to: Oblique9043

Trump did what he was impeached for. That is pretty obvious to anyone who can impartially judge. The question is: "is it enough to remove from office?"

End of story.

It is now up to the Senate to decide if what Trump did was bad enough to remove from office?

We can give our views here all day long, but at the end of that day, it is up to the Senate.

dbl

originally posted by: Oblique9043
Theres no denying that Trump did this to hold out for the quid pro quo. He only released the money after he found out he was busted. How can any of you deny this? What other reason is there? The mental gymnastics ought to be gold medal worthy in here.

Trump's budget officials ordered the Pentagon to deny Ukraine aid 90 minutes after Ukraine call, new documents found

Officials in the Office of Management and Budget reportedly began ordering the Pentagon to freeze aid agreements to Ukraine around 90 minutes after President Donald Trump's July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

The order to freeze aid was revealed in a new trove of documents that were released by a court in response to a FOIA lawsuit after the impeachment vote, detailing an email sent shortly after the call in which OMB official Mike Duffey ordered Pentagon officials to not install new defense aid obligations.

that's nice. When was Ukraine advised of this?

This is irrelevant to the charge.

The abuse of power charge relates to Trump witholding aide in order to personally benefit in the election.
That aid was witheld is not in question.

The question for the Senate is WHY the aid was witheld. Was it for Trump's personal gain, or to ensure cooperation into the investigation of Govt corruption and Ukraine's interference in the 2016 election.

The evidence you are looking for is that Trump was ordering this for election purposes.

This latest Democrat line of thinking - similar to the non crime of collusion which was parroted ad finitum during the Russian hoax - is designed to muddy the waters.

For greater clarity:
Witholding aid, pending full cooperation, from a country you think is corrupt and will use the money for actions against the United States - the President doing his job.

Witholding aid in order to blackmail a foreign leader to help you win an election - the Presdient abusing his power.

Do you understand the difference and why aid being held up is not the issue?

That said - buried in the article:

The pause on aid was first introduced in a July 18 interagency meeting, in which Trump first announced the freeze and the administration told Congress the aid wasn't granted because of an "interagency delay."

7 days BEFORE the call.

originally posted by: UKTruth

That said - buried in the article:

The pause on aid was first introduced in a July 18 interagency meeting, in which Trump first announced the freeze and the administration told Congress the aid wasn't granted because of an "interagency delay."

7 days BEFORE the call.

Oh my, that makes this look like a hit piece designed to play to a narrative.

a reply to: network dude


Does it matter?

Do you really think the Ukraine didn't know they were being "shaken down?"

My son is 17. He has to bring the car home by 11:00 pm each night. One night he brought it back at 12:30, so I grounded him from the car for a week.

That was a few months ago. Last weekend he brought the car home at about 11:05. I let it slide.

See, he technically broke the rules both times, but 5 minutes late was not enough for a grounding.

I see this as the same thing with Trump. The Senate has to decide if what he did was bad enough to remove from office.

What do you think? It is pretty obvious he was running a quid pro quo, or New York "Do us a favor" shakedown.

Either way, it is not in our wheelhouse anymore. The system will run it's course.

I am really bored of this and it is not a crime. It happens all the time and has happened every since the US started pretending it was Santa Claus for every country in the world.

I am glad it was held back for whatever reason if the funds were being used in a corrupt manner - and Biden sort of made sure the world knew that when he did so, it was for his families personal benefit. So far as I can see, Trump did not do anything remotely similar.

originally posted by: KrankBruder
a reply to: network dude


Does it matter?

Do you really think the Ukraine didn't know they were being "shaken down?"

My son is 17. He has to bring the car home by 11:00 pm each night. One night he brought it back at 12:30, so I grounded him from the car for a week.

That was a few months ago. Last weekend he brought the car home at about 11:05. I let it slide.

See, he technically broke the rules both times, but 5 minutes late was not enough for a grounding.

I see this as the same thing with Trump. The Senate has to decide if what he did was bad enough to remove from office.

What do you think? It is pretty obvious he was running a quid pro quo, or New Your "Do us a favor" shakedown.

Either way, it is not in our wheelhouse anymore. The system will run it's course.

Your entire post is about your suspicions and feelings. They don't count as evidence, so yes, it does matter.

Do you have any evidence that the President witheld aid in order to recruit the President of Ukraine into a shceme to help Trump win the 2020 election?

originally posted by: KrankBruder
a reply to: network dude


Does it matter?

Do you really think the Ukraine didn't know they were being "shaken down?"

My son is 17. He has to bring the car home by 11:00 pm each night. One night he brought it back at 12:30, so I grounded him from the car for a week.

That was a few months ago. Last weekend he brought the car home at about 11:05. I let it slide.

See, he technically broke the rules both times, but 5 minutes late was not enough for a grounding.

I see this as the same thing with Trump. The Senate has to decide if what he did was bad enough to remove from office.

What do you think? It is pretty obvious he was running a quid pro quo, or New York "Do us a favor" shakedown.

Either way, it is not in our wheelhouse anymore. The system will run it's course.

Politics is quid pro quo. The question is was it quid pro quo to investigate a crime by the VP Biden or was it a quid pro quo to help Trumps election?

Foreign aide gets held up all the time. Do you think the US govt gives foreign aide with no conditions attached? If so, I have some beach front property in Arkansas you might be interested in buying.

Doesn’t matter. It’s not a crime and the senate will not say it is.

Call me when you arrest Biden for admitting to doing what you accuse trump of doing.

a reply to: Fools

I am really bored of this and it is not a crime.

Yeah, it is a crime. I just don't know how serious. Removal?

I still don't really know if I would vote for removal at this point. But if they let some folks testify, I might have a better idea.

My main problem with the whole removal question is that we need to hear from more of the key players. Until then, I am erring on the side of caution and saying "no removal."

originally posted by: KrankBruder
a reply to: network dude


Does it matter?

Do you really think the Ukraine didn't know they were being "shaken down?"

My son is 17. He has to bring the car home by 11:00 pm each night. One night he brought it back at 12:30, so I grounded him from the car for a week.

That was a few months ago. Last weekend he brought the car home at about 11:05. I let it slide.

See, he technically broke the rules both times, but 5 minutes late was not enough for a grounding.

I see this as the same thing with Trump. The Senate has to decide if what he did was bad enough to remove from office.

What do you think? It is pretty obvious he was running a quid pro quo, or New York "Do us a favor" shakedown.

Either way, it is not in our wheelhouse anymore. The system will run it's course.

perhaps you can explain how a quid=pro=quo would work if the other party had no idea they aid was held up. Where was the quid?

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KrankBruder
a reply to: network dude


Does it matter?

Do you really think the Ukraine didn't know they were being "shaken down?"

My son is 17. He has to bring the car home by 11:00 pm each night. One night he brought it back at 12:30, so I grounded him from the car for a week.

That was a few months ago. Last weekend he brought the car home at about 11:05. I let it slide.

See, he technically broke the rules both times, but 5 minutes late was not enough for a grounding.

I see this as the same thing with Trump. The Senate has to decide if what he did was bad enough to remove from office.

What do you think? It is pretty obvious he was running a quid pro quo, or New York "Do us a favor" shakedown.

Either way, it is not in our wheelhouse anymore. The system will run it's course.

Politics is quid pro quo. The question is was it quid pro quo to investigate a crime by the VP Biden or was it a quid pro quo to help Trumps election?

Foreign aide gets held up all the time. Do you think the US govt gives foreign aide with no conditions attached? If so, I have some beach front property in Arkansas you might be interested in buying.

Correct - and as usual Schumer and the Democrats are already out muddying the waters on why the Democrats actually impeached the President.
Just like they tried to conjoin Russian interference in the election with their claim of collusion - prove one to make it seem the other is true - they are following the exact same playbook.
We'll get more of this snip until the Senate trial.

originally posted by: Oblique9043
Theres no denying that Trump did this to hold out for the quid pro quo.

Oh you want to bet, its easy to deny it, Trump didnt do it, does not make it true though, I reckon ATS loyal trump supporters will tell you straight to your avatar he did not do it and that you have been brainwashed by the MSM, reeeeing at the sky, not got the inteligence to understand, hilary would have done worse, obama did worse, leftist culture is dim etc



Trump urges China to investigate Bidens

Its not like he went on national TV and said it.......oh wait that was just to China its ok then

All politicians are liars and deceitful, its how good they are at covering it up that determines their success

a reply to: UpIsNowDown

Your post added zilch other than further confirmation that you can't see straight.

Let me make it easy for you.

In and of itself, is a President witholding aid an example of Treason, Bribery, High Crimes or Misdemeanours?

a reply to: Fools

Do you have any evidence that the President witheld aid in order to recruit the President of Ukraine into a shceme to help Trump win the 2020 election?

Of course I have no evidence. I am a regular guy. But I did listen to most of the testimony in the House, and it seems to me most folks agree what Trump was trying to do: Get Ukraine to have an announcement that they were starting an investigation into Biden, who is Trump's rival. As a fair-minded guy, it looks to me like Trump did that. I am bringing up the point that the Senate must decide if that is enough to remove from office.

a reply to: network dude

So you think the Ukraine is so stupid that they did not know a "shake down" was happening?

originally posted by: KrankBruder
a reply to: Fools

Do you have any evidence that the President witheld aid in order to recruit the President of Ukraine into a shceme to help Trump win the 2020 election?

Of course I have no evidence. I am a regular guy. But I did listen to most of the testimony in the House, and it seems to me most folks agree what Trump was trying to do: Get Ukraine to have an announcement that they were starting an investigation into Biden, who is Trump's rival. As a fair-minded guy, it looks to me like Trump did that. I am bringing up the point that the Senate must decide if that is enough to remove from office.

The witnesses were speculating. When asked if they had any first hand knowledge or any evidence they said 'No.'.
You were convinced by hand picked witnesses in a partisan House Democrat process. You have the right to hold your opinion, but that is not evidence of anywrong doing and not grounds for removal of a President.

Your feelings add nothing to the determination of Trump's motives, which are the very thing that he has been impeached for - motive - with no evidence of that motive. These are points that the Senate Republcians will make - rightly so - and the House Republicans DID make.

originally posted by: KrankBruder
a reply to: network dude

So you think the Ukraine is so stupid that they did not know a "shake down" was happening?

When asked the President of the Ukraine said he was not aware.
But even if he was, is there any evidence he knew - and even if he did, how does that change the charge?