Israel to be investigated for Alleged war Crimes in Palestinian Territories

Who gave Israel the land , who attacked them and their land was expanded ? When someone sends rockets into your land you retaliate . Lots of people have tried to broker a peace deal in that area , they all failed and it is not all israel's fault .

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Wardaddy454

The so called Palestinians are a group of people that have been shuffled around from Jordan to every neighboring country to be someone else's problem, and landed in Israel.

The Jews had that problem for thousands of years. Now however they do it to other people instead.

The so called Palestinians are the people that have and had historically lived in the area. Just because they may have been shuffled around (primary because of the occupation) Does in no way negate it from being an issue.

Well, take it up with England and the UN.

originally posted by: purplemer

originally posted by: PandaPrincess
sorry i am looking at the map and i do not see a palestine
its Israel

Yes that is simply because Israel has denied the people of Palestine a state.

Well considering the ARAB-palestinian people not the hebrew Palestinia people, didnt exist until the KGB and yasser arafatt and the PLO decided to bring them back during the cold war because Israel is a US ally and the arabs coudnt win a war with israel they didnt have a state ever.

originally posted by: 10uoutlaw
Who gave Israel the land , who attacked them and their land was expanded ? When someone sends rockets into your land you retaliate . Lots of people have tried to broker a peace deal in that area , they all failed and it is not all israel's fault .

We just gave Israel back some of the land the Romans stole from them when anchient Israel and judea existed side by side. The Romans renamed the Israelites homeland Palestinia and even changed all maps to reflect the name change so they couldnt get their lands name back as punishment for uprisings.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It all comes down to what do you do with former nomads that got left out of the land game after WWI? I think they should get a piece of the west bank and a piece of Jordan as long as the Kurds also get Kurdistan as their own state. That here is really my final point of what I would like to see happen, but I don't think the Arab players want any part of this and just love to continue as they have been by using these people for fodder.

I have to agree. The lines were drawn a while ago, in a time where nations themselves had very different ideas of how to control populations and stop future conflict, or at least direct them.

We can't paint a picture of nation Vs nation or even people's Vs people's because it's more complex than that, we both know that there's loads of groups competing to put their influence across. I don't want to write a highly complex history lesson and tie in global politics with it. So I'll just say that nobody with influence wants the situation to change.

Ultimately for something what you (and I) think should happen just can't without massive concessions by Israel. That just won't happen. There's a genuine risk for Israel going a power sharing route and the land is simply not getting split up. Seems with the dramatic recent events in Syria that a similar outcome will happen there too but that's for another thread.

They just built the Jerusalites a brand new railway station. It's kick ass modern the Arabs love it and are truly adjusting to Western civilisation indeed revelling in it as they sit there on new seats googling with their Iphones. Slowly surely most Arabs are enjoying life in Israel but the lib leftie media don't tell you that

a reply to: Wardaddy454

No way England gonna go against Israel when We gave Weizzmann the gift of Israel for saving us in WW1 with his invention of ethyl acetate. We were done for and would have capitulated without his invention, Israel today is Britain's thank you for it's survival 100 years ago and I much prefer being English than a German speaking colonial so let them have Israel good on em as all Be4xiteers will agree on too on our current escape from the continent

a reply to: UKTruth

My issue is a simple one. Israel has the biggest open air prison in the world. It controls the flow of everything to the people I'll just coin as Palestinians, because we both know they're technically stateless. Which ties into another issue of mine. Human rights.

All humans deserve those simple rights.

So yes, there's extremists elsewhere. There's human rights abuse elsewhere but we are talking about Israel and since they're a recognised country they need to answer to the international community about it's own violations and abuses.

I mean come on man. Anyone who knows history knows that the whataboutisms and stonewalling has been strong on all sides but Israeli's are masters of it. I don't care about what Iran are up to when I'm talking about Israel.

If we were talking about the IRA and my own nation I wouldn't deny our own failings, I certainly wouldn't whataboutism towards Ireland. It solves nothing. Unfortunately when it comes to conversations about Israel I'm primed for that kind of behaviour and of course the anti-Semite remarks.

It gets old man, real old.

a reply to: UKTruth

Anti-Semites are going to hate and accuse Jews of all sorts of crap.

Criticism of a nations government is not racism.

Israel have actually been very generous and reasonable after the agressions shown by Arab states. They gave back Sinai, when really they should have kept it.

a reply to: UKTruth

Extremely reasonable... When you don't look at the wider picture. Fact is Israel love to stonewall, slow down processes or downright bury them in the mud.

Overall Israel has been tactical. They don't care about international norms or even courts. They've got nuclear weapons too. It's not being wiped off any map today without a lot of us going with it.

Today is a new day as they say.

a reply to: yuppa

They changed all the maps?

Or are you just basing history on Roman maps? It's a slippery slope basing modern day territorial claims on ancient history.

Anyways tomorrow I'm identifying as a Beaker, I'll come and sell you some pots if you like?

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: UKTruth

My issue is a simple one. Israel has the biggest open air prison in the world. It controls the flow of everything to the people I'll just coin as Palestinians, because we both know they're technically stateless. Which ties into another issue of mine. Human rights.

All humans deserve those simple rights.

So yes, there's extremists elsewhere. There's human rights abuse elsewhere but we are talking about Israel and since they're a recognised country they need to answer to the international community about it's own violations and abuses.

I mean come on man. Anyone who knows history knows that the whataboutisms and stonewalling has been strong on all sides but Israeli's are masters of it. I don't care about what Iran are up to when I'm talking about Israel.

If we were talking about the IRA and my own nation I wouldn't deny our own failings, I certainly wouldn't whataboutism towards Ireland. It solves nothing. Unfortunately when it comes to conversations about Israel I'm primed for that kind of behaviour and of course the anti-Semite remarks.

It gets old man, real old.

Whataboutism?

The surrounding Arab nations in the ME and their previous and current aggressive behaviour towards Israel is DIRECTLY related to current Israeli policy.

You are basically saying that Israel needs to play nice with their enemies or else they are the aggressors... and anyone who talks about the history and reasoning behind Israels policy is engaging in whataboutism. Whataboutism is a tired and irrelevant argument at the best of times, but becomes even more ridiculous when incorrectly used.

THAT is where the charge of anti-semitism comes from - a complete and otherwise unexplainable lack of understanding of the threat Israel faces on a daily basis. How else can an attitude of 'open yourself up to destruction or you are at fault' be interpreted?

originally posted by: RAY1990

Israel have actually been very generous and reasonable after the agressions shown by Arab states. They gave back Sinai, when really they should have kept it.

a reply to: UKTruth

Extremely reasonable... When you don't look at the wider picture. Fact is Israel love to stonewall, slow down processes or downright bury them in the mud.

Overall Israel has been tactical. They don't care about international norms or even courts. They've got nuclear weapons too. It's not being wiped off any map today without a lot of us going with it.

Today is a new day as they say.

No, the fact is that Syria used the Golan Heights to shell Northern Israel for 20 years and Egypt used Sinai to launch an invasion aimed at wiping out the Israeli state.
Your opinions about Israel are not facts.

The peace treaty after the war that Israel won, that handed Sinai back to Egypt, was generous on the side of Israel. They could and probably should have kept it. At some point in the future the peace treaty is going to be broken - already rumblings of it in Egypt frm the radical opposition to the current Govt. there.

a reply to: purplemer

Let them battle it out, they hate each other already. Wars in the middle.east have been going on thousands of years. Just let them battle it out. It's the way they do it over there

a reply to: purplemer

In the past, Israel has shared intel with us on possible terrorist attacks.

On 911, Palestinians danced in the streets.

Let us also not forget that the people in Palestine VOTED to be led by terrorists.
Hamas are in power.
That means they are no better - in fact worse because the people voted for it - than the ISIS caliphate.
Israel are doing the world a great service - along with Eygpt - by ensuring the blockade and isolation of the terrorist group installed by the people in Palestine.
Under no circumstances should the terrorists be allowed to inflitrate Democratic lands or receive weapons from terrorist nations such as Iran.
People are suffering in places like the Gaza strip because they voted for and support terrorism.

These people whine about human rights, and connect with the bleeding hearts in the West, because (as an example) they are not allowed to reunite with their families living in Israel. Well, tough. Given that nearly 50% of them voted for Hamas, it's far far too risky to allow them to set foot outside their terrorist lands.

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: purplemer

In the past, Israel has shared intel with us on possible terrorist attacks.

On 911, Palestinians danced in the streets.

You are correct... and some people want these Palestinians to have free movement into Israel.

a reply to: yuppa

Thanks for the information

originally posted by: purplemer

WTF Stop with this tripe.

You have no excuse for using your armed forces for shooting protesters in the genitalia. Or head shooting little kids. Or exacerbating the level of poverty in Palastine. Or bombing schools with white phosphorus. Or restricting the flow of goods or turning off water or kicking people out of there homes.

I'm not here to say what you wrote above didn't happen. Conflicts are dangerous anyway you look at it. You on the other hand seem to want to cherry pick incidences and establish them as the norm, or government sanctioned events to prove your point in someway. Like in all armed fights bad crap happens, emotions are high on both sides and if I was going to evaluate Israel in these areas the two true failings on their part is they use lethal force more times than not and soldiers that do unlawful kills are not really held accountable.

Looking at the statistics we are talking about 800 or less cases filed with the Military Advocate General since 1989, so an average of 40 per year or so. Any loss of life is horrible, but when we look at the ME in general this is a drop in the bucket compared to other ME countries as to what they do routinely. An example of what Israel has done in recent times was captured by video of where a Palestine fatality stabled a check point guard and injured another. He was injured trying to get away and instead of treating him a soldier shot him again.

Yep that is what they do in the ME...nothing new...They don't play around..cross this line and we will shot you, and they mean it. In a world where one side has no uniforms and anyone can be a suicide bomber, or you got a 50/50 chance a person could say good morning or stab you, this is how it ends up.

Yearly typical numbers are about 200 to 300 Palestinians are killed and 15 to 30 Jews are killed. What exacerbates all this was my point that leadership in charge of the West Bank are as extreme as they can get, fact. They want no concessions other than an independent state and even with that they still want the annihilation of Israel, fact. They are willing to used their own people as fodder, fact. Yep the people are screwed if the Arabs and Jews do not come to a concession on them that works for all sides since the Jews do not play nice, ever, and the Arabs including the Palestine leadership place zero value on life there.

The one thing you need to understand is the UN and ICC will only use political rhetoric with no actions ever going to be taken either way, and that is because they all know the situation as what I just describe.

Look lets not start on al-Qaeda. Funny how isis and al-Qaeda. never targeted Israel but did so her enemies. Heck didnt Isreal even offer them air support (yes they did) Go and do some homework. Read the pentagon leaks to start with. Thats why the USA could not kick ass but Russia did in a matter of days.

MOSAD? Whats the moto. War though deceit or something.

isis and al-Qaeda goals were to kill other Muslims and take over whatever country they were fighting in. Boy talk about brutality that makes the medieval dark ages look like child's play. This was all about the Sunnis fighting the Shiite in their 1400 year war. The Jews were next on their list, and if they were willing to go to such levels of brutality on each other just think what they would do to Jews, or go Google as to what they did do to Christians as side projects in their war.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: UKTruth

My issue is a simple one. Israel has the biggest open air prison in the world. It controls the flow of everything to the people I'll just coin as Palestinians, because we both know they're technically stateless. Which ties into another issue of mine. Human rights.

China has larger...just saying.

So what should Israel do when Iran works to bring $100 millions in weapons into that area? They are stateless, been that way forever and even in recent times when Egypt and Jordan controlled those areas they did exactly what Israel is doing. If they were not anti-Jewish extremest they could have been working with the Jew instead of working with Iran and other Arab nations against the Jew.

All humans deserve those simple rights.

The Arabs care much less for human life than the Jews, why do you think they work on maintaining the situation as it stands? The people there are only fodder for the Palestine leadership and Arab nations. This is not something ONLY Israel needs to solve...