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Trump Isn’t Impeached Until the House Tells the Senate

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posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

So that means a Bill passed by both House and Senate is a Law even though it still has to go to the POTUS and get signed?


Does he sign off bills now?

My reading of things is that the House and Senate must place the impeachment of the President at special priority above all other work. The President should not be receiving any bills to sign.

If he has any bills to sign, it would only be because he has a backlog, and that because he hasn't been dealing with the work in a timely manner.




posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Why is the evidence tainted?
Are the videos I've seen of trump, rudy, and others practically admitting they did it faked?
Were the witnesses that came forward giving false testimony?
Maybe all those text messages were bogus?

Remember, their job at this point, if we are going with the idea that this is the process up to an indictment being generated.. and their judgement, not ours, on weather they could prove the case in a courtroom setting. They are not tasked with proving their case at this point.

Their judgement might be off and their case will crumble into dust in the senate. That would not be unusual, it happens quite often. But, that is a far cry from the claim that the evidence is tainted!



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha


The Chief Justice doesn't receive the articles of impeachment, and isn't invited to preside until the articles of impeachment are delivered to the Senate.

The judge in a criminal trial oversees the court and ensures that the law is followed. The court receives the indictment, not the judge. Now, read the Constitution, please... I promise you, it's not very big words and it might make you not come across as completely ignorant.

Article 1, Section 3, Paragraph 6:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

There is no invitation. When the trial begins, the Chief Justice is in charge of maintaining order, whether the Senate likes it or not.


Clinton was acquitted, not because he was innocent, but because...
...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Blah blah and blah.

NOTHING ABOUT THAT MATTERS. BILL CLINTON WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY OF HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS.


Clinton is forever a impeached president

So what? I am forever an accused person... I have been accused of things. You are (unless you want to start putting on a halo right about now) forever an accused person. I would bet you have at some point been accused of something.

Do you not get that an impeachment is nothing more than a formal accusation? Is that concept so hard to wrap your head around? Bill Clinton was never punished for any crime in office... because he was never convicted of a crime in office. An impeachment must, again according to the Constitution, accuse the President of "high crimes and misdemeanors."

Exactly what do you think an impeachment is? A conviction of a crime?

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 12:56 PM
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I think I may have figerd it out,
why they dont impeach trump straight away.
they think they can use it to black mail
trump to not run a second term.

idiots..



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


Why is the evidence tainted?

Denial of equal representation for the accused, speculative opinions used as evidence, leading witnesses, lack of first-hand knowledge, refusal to call witnesses, refusal to follow established procedures, just to get you started.


Were the witnesses that came forward giving false testimony?

They were giving opinions and speculation of things they did not have first-hand knowledge of.


Maybe all those text messages were bogus?

Which ones from Donald Trump said "I abused my power" or "I am going to obstruct Congress"?

None of them are definitive and all can be understood multiple ways.


Remember, their job at this point, if we are going with the idea that this is the process up to an indictment being generated.. and their judgement, not ours, on weather they could prove the case in a courtroom setting. They are not tasked with proving their case at this point.

The evidence received will be used to implicate Donald Trump. He is innocent until found guilty. This how I once heard a judge describe the process (paraphrased):

"When you stand in front of me, you are surrounded by an aura of innocence. It is the prosecutor's job to show that you are guilty of the crime and that aura of innocence can be removed. If he cannot, the case will be dismissed for lack of evidence. If he can, you then get the opportunity to prove him wrong and regain your aura of innocence. Only if the prosecutor can show you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and you cannot show otherwise will you be convicted."

Those are the words of an actual judge. It doesn't matter if you believe them or not; if you ever stand before a judge, that is what will happen.

As I explained above, none of the "evidence" so far can stand legal scrutiny. Therefore there is almost no evidence that can be admitted per legal precedent and procedure, and what little can be admitted is tainted by the actions of the House committees. This is as close to an open-and-shut case as I have ever seen... there is no possible way I can think of that Shiff could have screwed this impeachment up worse than he already did.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: buddha

They are on christmas break!!! Half the country is browsing the web doing their last minute christmas shopping while the other half is making sure their plants are watered well enough to survive till they return. They are handing out cards and gifts and having parties...
The only ones actually working are the mailmen, FedEx workers, store clerks and Amazon, and of course the cops trying to keep some order in all the madness.
Happy holidays, merry Christmas, happy new year, see ya next year!! Hope you dont need any fed govt services because if you actually can get a hold of a human to talk to, the service is gonna be crappy as heck...
Tis that season... time to just sit back and enjoy it! You have probably spent enough on it..



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 01:30 PM
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Up

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Well this is interesting and coming from a big Dem Lawyer too.

I haven't looked into what he says but I don't really have any reason to doubt him. The logic seems sound.


If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly impeached at all.


That’s because “impeachment” under the Constitution means the House sending its approved articles of to the Senate, with House managers standing up in the Senate and saying the president is impeached.


Bloomberg


I'll tell you what..

Go out and stand in the street with your hands over your eyes. If no one hits you, then you weren't blocking traffic. Nevermind that 5 car pile up.

Orange man wearing orange makes him spokes person for Tropicana.



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Who gets equal representation during and investigation and grand jury hearing?
Who were the witnesses the republicans wanted to call. What was their connection to the issue at hand? Did any of them have better, more complete first hand knowledge than the witnesses you are dismissing as being insufficient. Or to put it another way, was their motivation in selecting those witnesses to dive deeper to gain more information into the matter or was it more that they wanted to out the whistleblower so they can be retaliated against and try to turn the impeachment into a hearing about biden?
And the "established procedures" weren't actually followed while the republicans held the majority also.
And, I am sorry, but those witnesses did have first hand knowledge when it came to what they were reading in their text messages. When sondland showed up and told some that he had the presidents authority to take control, that is first hand knowledge. Whatever they testified they heard, or read, or felt, is first hand knowledge. It's more of a matter of how we interpret the information.
Would it stand in an actually court, I have no idea. Will it stand in the senate, probably not, unless they can get a Bolton or the like in there to testify and and they have one heck of a testimony.

I dont know, now I am thinking that maybe nancy will hold onto them awhile, maybe she is thinking that the court system will expedite things and trump will have to give them some witnesses and documents. Since the senate has decided it's not their job. In which case, I think she should verbally rescind the impeachment at least temporarily.



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

want to hear something funny? The SUpreme court can nullify the impeachment if they find it unconstitutional or without merit due to no real evidence of a crime.



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 01:58 PM
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www.nycourts.gov...

An indictment is not proof of guilt.

That's what TRIALS are for.

Discerning ones guilt or innocence.

Take That Trump haters.




posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




BILL CLINTON WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY OF HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS.


Bill Clinton was not found not guilty of perjury. The Senate failed to achieve the 2/3 necessary to convict and remove him from office for his perjury. That doesn't mean that Bill Clinton is innocent of his obvious and admitted perjury.

Bill Clinton is forever an impeached president.



Do you not get that an impeachment is nothing more than a formal accusation?


It's more than a formal accusation. It's a super intense censure, which is why it's an impeachment and not an indictment.



There is no invitation. When the trial begins, the Chief Justice is in charge of maintaining order, whether the Senate likes it or not.




I. Whensoever the Senate shall receive notice from the House of Representatives that managers are appointed on their part to conduct an impeachment against any person and are directed to carry articles of impeachment to the Senate, the Secretary of the Senate shall immediately inform the House of Representatives that the Senate is ready to receive the managers for the purpose of exhibiting such articles of impeachment, agreeably to such notice.



IV. When the President of the United States or the Vice President of the United States, upon whom the powers and duties of the Office of President shall have devolved, shall be impeached, the Chief Justice of the United States shall preside; and in a case requiring the said Chief Justice to preside notice shall be given to him by the Presiding Officer of the Senate of the time and place fixed for the consideration of the articles of impeachment, as aforesaid, with a request to attend; and the said Chief Justice shall be administered the oath by the Presiding Officer of the Senate and shall preside over the Senate during the consideration of said articles and upon the trial of the person impeached therein.


washingtonmonthly.com...



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: yuppa




The SUpreme court can nullify the impeachment if they find it unconstitutional or without merit due to no real evidence of a crime.


No they can't.




posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Wasn't clinton censored for perjury? His law license revoked and all that?



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck





Excellent summation!

So, yes, every Senator knows (or should know) the above. They are not ignorant of the facts, evidence, and testimony. If the members of the House are informed adequately to cast a vote, so too are the members of the Senate.



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Ummm... ya, that's about as funny as the fact that the chief justice is gonna be presiding over the senate trial while some of the most outlandish arguments hes probably ever seen is waiting for him in the supreme court. Arguments that attempt to convince the court that trump is basically untouchable in the legal system, nope cant investigate, nope cant have any documents, nope cant indict, nope, congress cant either... hes the pres! Hes untouchable... even that position is a testament to the extent hes willing to abuse his powers.



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: TheRedneck




BILL CLINTON WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY OF HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS.


Bill Clinton was not found not guilty of perjury. The Senate failed to achieve the 2/3 necessary to convict and remove him from office for his perjury. That doesn't mean that Bill Clinton is innocent of his obvious and admitted perjury.

Bill Clinton is forever an impeached president.



Do you not get that an impeachment is nothing more than a formal accusation?


It's more than a formal accusation. It's a super intense censure, which is why it's an impeachment and not an indictment.



There is no invitation. When the trial begins, the Chief Justice is in charge of maintaining order, whether the Senate likes it or not.




I. Whensoever the Senate shall receive notice from the House of Representatives that managers are appointed on their part to conduct an impeachment against any person and are directed to carry articles of impeachment to the Senate, the Secretary of the Senate shall immediately inform the House of Representatives that the Senate is ready to receive the managers for the purpose of exhibiting such articles of impeachment, agreeably to such notice.



IV. When the President of the United States or the Vice President of the United States, upon whom the powers and duties of the Office of President shall have devolved, shall be impeached, the Chief Justice of the United States shall preside; and in a case requiring the said Chief Justice to preside notice shall be given to him by the Presiding Officer of the Senate of the time and place fixed for the consideration of the articles of impeachment, as aforesaid, with a request to attend; and the said Chief Justice shall be administered the oath by the Presiding Officer of the Senate and shall preside over the Senate during the consideration of said articles and upon the trial of the person impeached therein.


washingtonmonthly.com...
Lmfao, you know you lost the argument when you say garbage like, "Super Intense Censure" 😂😂😂

Impeach: To formally accuse.

When you say Trump is forever impeached, it is literally translated as,

"Trump is forever ACCUSED!!"

You're not a very smart human are you?

Secondly, what you highlighted is disingenous, this qoute precedes what you posted, *the Chief Justice of the United States shall preside;..."

What you qouted was AFTER the fact, meaning this is what is to happen and the Senate must give notice for the Chief Justice to attend when and where.

It's basically outlining the formal process, like a basic template, all the other small stuff not mentioned on the Constitution is up to the Branches and their respective powers.

You're a fool.



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: buddha

They are on christmas break!!!


The funny thing is Nancy may not hand over the articles before January 3rd, thus it will not be on the list of items to carry over to the new session of congress. In that case the bill is dead and they will need to re-impeach him. Get your clown goggles ready!



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: Arnie123




"Trump is forever ACCUSED!!"


Bill Clinton is forever an impeached President, like Donald Trump.



Secondly, what you highlighted is disingenous, this qoute precedes what you posted, *the Chief Justice of the United States shall preside;..."


You're the fool, who can't seem to follow a conversation. What I cited proved that I was correct when I said that the Chief Justice isn't involved in the impeachment process until the Senate "invites" them, after they've been notified by the House and the Managers have presented the articles to the Senate.


edit on 21-12-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: Liquesence

Trump Isn’t Impeached Until the House Tells the Senate


He's been impeached.

Impeachment happens in the House, and it's now part of the Congressional and historical record.
Yeah the historical record that the left are literally the poster child for Idiocracy, you watering your plants with gatorade yet?



posted on Dec, 21 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: drewlander

That would be so entertaining to watch go down...
I'm not sure who would blow their tops more. The less experienced dems in the house. Or the republicans when they realize Nancy played them...



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