wage equity - how much are jobs really worth ?

hey - appologies for the double entendre in the title . i could not resist .

ok - its in the news today - that ms denise coates [ the boss of an online book makers [ bet365.com ] ] is the gigest paid executive in a UK firm :

sallary - £277 MILLION [/PA + stocks that push her actual reaning to £320M all GBP

there are myriad approaches and arguments to this issue

mine is - what did she do yo earn it ?

before answering - look at the history of online betting . the rise of bet365.com and the history of fer fathers company

i do not condem ms coates - but she was not an inovator - just a lucky gambler - who sank part of her family assets into copying an idea .

and my last point - its fashionable on ATS and other venues - to claim that inhereded wealth is not earned

so again - what did ms coates do ?


ETA - doh - source article added

source

there are others - google her name and or company

It seems that the most important jobs that provide things in society we need pay the least. It is that way in America anyway. If someone is hired to boost sales, they usually get good money and of course the big corporate leaders get good money. But for us that do stuff that is necessary for society, we usually make less than someone pushing a pencil or producing video games or computer programs.

It seems that needs are cheap but wants and desires are expensive. That extravagant diamond engagement ring actually does not mean the guy loves you, it means you may have financial problems in the future. Look at Hollywood stars and producers, they make lots of bucks for creating things that are neither real nor necessary. People put famous actors on a pedestal and will spend lots of bucks so they might bump into one on their vacation. Actors are just people who make a living deceiving people...sort of like Politicians.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yeah, but you are almost always going to get paid for your value provided, unless you are gaming the system like congressman insider trading, etc...
Look at movie stars. Millions of people shelling out 20 bucks to see their movies.
Entertainment is the value provided.
I think the question is what is the general populations opinion of their worth on menial jobs and what position are they placing themselves in on the ladder.
It's easier than ever to start a small biz and clear six figures and grow from there.
People who don't go the biz route and expect to be making the big bucks aren't really trying that hard to break from the wage slave rut.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: rickymouse

Yeah, but you are almost always going to get paid for your value provided, unless you are gaming the system like congressman insider trading, etc...
Look at movie stars. Millions of people shelling out 20 bucks to see their movies.
Entertainment is the value provided.
I think the question is what is the general populations opinion of their worth on menial jobs and what position are they placing themselves in on the ladder.
It's easier than ever to start a small biz and clear six figures and grow from there.
People who don't go the biz route and expect to be making the big bucks aren't really trying that hard to break from the wage slave rut.

The biggest businesses in this country that pay really good are stuff like Facebook, phone providers, college professors, advertising companies, computer video game producers, and politics.

Small businesses might make quite a bit of money on paper, but there is a lot of time and investment put in by the owners. Then because things are changing so fast, the business becomes worthless after ten years many times. I know lots of people who started small businesses, most make less than they could have made as a factory worker or miner.

I owned my own business for fifteen years, you can easily get burned out and it seems that society wants businesses to keep expanding which leads to their failure. On top of that now online sales have taken away the profits of most of the small businesses around here. You are living in the past, it is not that way so much anymore.

Wages are simply where supply and demand intersect on a graph...

You have to remove all emotion. Wages have ZERO to do with value to society, how hard someone works, or anything else.

Wages are simply what someone who is willing to work and what someone is willing to pay. Nothing more.

A guy picking strawberries may be doing back breaking work. However, no one is going to pay them a lot of money because supply of workers is high. If they don't want to do for $8/hr there are 20 other people who will....

On the other hand, even a mediocre professional athlete will still earn $400k a year or more just to ride the bench. Why? Because even though they may be the worst player on the team, they are still a rare commodity. There aren't that many people who can do the job.

When it comes to CEO pay... some are over paid for sure, but it is the board of directors and shareholders who determine that.... no one else matters. Investors in the company care about return on their investment. Most CEOs are paid in stock options, not salaries. So their incentive is to make decisions to benefit shareholders. When you see a CEO making say $50 million, it is because they own a lot of stock and the share price has increased dramatically. Most CEOs make relatively small salaries...

I work in sales. The top sales guy at my organization makes more than the CEO. The reason is because that sales guy brings in a ton of revenue and profit. He is paid based on results.

There will always be wage inequity because we are not all equal.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

A job is worth what someone will pay you to do it.

If a bunch of other people can also do what you do, odds are that your job is worth less because one of those other people will accept the job for less then you will in order to make money.

If not many others can do it but a lot of people need it done, you'll make a lot more.

This is where skills and education are important. This is where being the best in your field is important.

Ask yourself what this person you're jealous of does and if you could do it as well as she does. If the answer is no, then you're on your way to understanding why she made what she did. Then figure out why her services are in such demand and that's the other half.

a reply to: Edumakated

Actually, when it comes to CEO pay, there is a tax loophole that allows the company to pay less tax.

americansfortaxfairness.org...

Companies like Walmart use this loophole to save $100 million over the past 6 years.

Under the CEO pay tax loophole, the bigger the bonuses corporations give to their executives the less the company pays in taxes. That means average taxpayers have to pick up the tab.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Without the workers doing the work the business owner would have no business.

So a person willing to do work that needs to be done is worth a great deal.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

So explain that to your boss and then demand he pay you $100/hour, and see how fast he replaces you with someone willing to the same thing you were doing for far less.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ignorant_ape

Without the workers doing the work the business owner would have no business.

So a person willing to do work that needs to be done is worth a great deal.

By all means, please put up or shut. You are free to take your own money and risk it to start a business. After you do that and you decide to pay unskilled employees say $50/hr or whatever, please let us know how it goes...

There is nothing stopping you people complaining from starting your own businesses, paying people what you believe to be a fair wage and all the taxes you think you should be paying....

Please show the rest of us how it is done. Until then, you aren't qualified to make demands as to what any business should be paying employees.

a reply to: Edumakated

There is plenty. It's called big business as competition. They can just lower prices and make it impossible for you to compete, ride you out, then raise prices again. You end up having to compete with people paying slave wages who can easily just soak up the cost of lowering prices to just below anything you could reasonably charge and simply wait you out. Then there's the insane regulations small businesses can't afford that big business can easily deal with.

Pretending people can just open their own businesses to fix this is absurd. There are people with much more money and power that very much desire to keep the status quo for whom the deck is stacked in their favor to a degree that's damn near astronomical.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Edumakated

Actually, when it comes to CEO pay, there is a tax loophole that allows the company to pay less tax.

americansfortaxfairness.org...

Companies like Walmart use this loophole to save $100 million over the past 6 years.

Under the CEO pay tax loophole, the bigger the bonuses corporations give to their executives the less the company pays in taxes. That means average taxpayers have to pick up the tab.

So change the tax code. I've long supported a flat tax with minimal deductions.

The studies you linked are big on drama, but pretty low on data and facts. First off, the study is essentially admitting that the bulk of the CEO compensation is PERFORMANCE BASED. They are getting stock options to ensure the CEO is aligned with creating value for all shareholders.

The tax loophole allows the corporation to deduct any performance based pay. However, the CEO is still paying taxes on those stock options when they are exercised. So Wal-Mart as a corp may benefit, but the CEO still has to pay a crap ton of taxes on those options as does anyone who gets them. Even lower and mid level employees get stock options and wind up paying taxes on them when they are exercised.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Edumakated

There is plenty. It's called big business as competition. They can just lower prices and make it impossible for you to compete, ride you out, then raise prices again. You end up having to compete with people paying slave wages who can easily just soak up the cost of lowering prices to just below anything you could reasonably charge and simply wait you out. Then there's the insane regulations small businesses can't afford that big business can easily deal with.

Pretending people can just open their own businesses to fix this is absurd. There are people with much more money and power that very much desire to keep the status quo for whom the deck is stacked in their favor to a degree that's damn near astronomical.

Companies are started all the time. Companies fail all the time as well. Dominate players are often replaced by scrappy startups.

Yes, regulations can often act as a barrier to entry. However, it is those on the left that primarily push increased regulations. For example, many of us have pointed out that raising minimum wage hurts small businesses more so than large companies. The same with bureaucratic regulations.

Your defeatist attitude shows you will never be an entrepreneur. Sometimes the advantage is for a small company that can be more nimble.

wage equity - how much are jobs really worth ?

The American worker is worth exactly what the corporations are willing to pay them; to keep the investors happy with their dividends.

The reason for the stamping out of unions and collective bargaining.

a reply to: Edumakated

Assuming that the CEO doesn't put the ownership of the stock into a overseas shell corp.

I guess yes.

What about surgeons or medical technicians? They make a lot but we need them

a reply to: rickymouse

a reply to: rickymouse

I am not living in the past as you suggest, you are failing to adapt.
"Getting burned out with your business of 15 years" is another description for bad time management.
Your time put into a biz is irrelevant to the future direction you take said business.
You need to adapt to current market conditions with any business including online competition.
If they aren't "diversifying" their customer base, they aren't very smart to begin with.
Of course there are huge risks in small business, as well as huge rewards.
There's no better time than today to start your own biz.
Even if you side-job it at nights while working a crappy job.
It's the only way to make big money, the opposite of complaining about those who make it, which is an exercise in futility.
It's all about balance.
Supply, demand, marketing, accounting etc...
Tackle each problem.
Burnt out? Hire people
Can't afford too? Make a new business model addressing above issues.
It's not for everyone, but it should be, it's all pretty common sense stuff.
I am not a biz major, but follow these basic rules with what I do and with another biz I'm starting in the future.
I ran a small company back in the day and had the bun out too, as I look back, I realize it was because I tried to do everything myself without delegating duties to others.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Edumakated

Assuming that the CEO doesn't put the ownership of the stock into a overseas shell corp.

I guess yes.

So what if they do? Your beef is with the tax code. You should be advocating for a simpler and more efficient tax code. If it is legal and follows the tax code, what is the problem. No one is going to pay more taxes than required...

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
What about surgeons or medical technicians? They make a lot but we need them

a reply to: rickymouse

Back to supply and demand. Supply of doctors is limited, hence the high salaries. Did you know doctors in rural areas or smaller cities can actually make more than doctors in big cities? Supply and demand. If a hospital in a small city wants a star surgeon, they actually have to pay him more than a comparable hospital in say NYC because so few want to live in smaller cities while surgeons in NYC are a dime a dozen.

It is supply and demand.

If you have 5 places needing to hire widget builders, and 20 guys who can build widgets, what do you think will happen? Each of the places hiring a widget builder has their pick of labor. They have no need to spend a ton of money on a widget builder and 15 of the workers will go without a job. None of the widget builders can afford to make much in the way of wage demands because if any of the others undercut their demands, they won't get hired.

But,

If those 5 places are working to hire only 3 widget builders, the widget builders are getting the employers to compete for them within reason. Obviously, there are going to be some thresholds an employer cannot cross, but those 3 widget builders ought to be well-paid for their labor type because each business who needs one will try to lure in one of the three in various ways.