It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Salvation IS through Reason and Knowledge alone

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 03:03 AM
link   
The ideal state of (mental-physical-mystical) harmony in which most 'holy men' or 'sages' claim that we strive to be, is only possible through knowledge and reason. Therefore it is irresponsible and disrespectful to possess a closed mind to truth, be it present in the form of science, history or ethics, etc. Samadi or Gnosis is the process that helps us live and move in a world of being, knowing that we were and still are [animal]. However, When one decides to challenge their animal within, they might find they are unprepared and weak-willed which usually results in self-defeat or critical self persecution. Many people stop here as they soon realize they are powerless or unwilling to catch the beast. When the veil of one's conscience is torn, they fully see the truth about themselves in relation to this planet, it's inhabitants, and the body you wear. You can see the animal and you can be the human, but you are none of these, yet all. So if we, therefore, cannot separate ourselves, how do we live in peaceful cohabitation without ruining that of others? Through Reason and Knowledge [Know yourself]. By addressing and bringing to light animal habits and excuses we so gladly label as 'inherent-instinct', only then can we begin our journey into light.


Peace be upon you




posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 04:04 AM
link   
a reply to: spacemonk

This is a talk by Alan Watts.... 'Why the Urge to Improve Yourself?'..... he is incredibly good at reasoning and an absolute joy to hear.


edit on 18-12-2019 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 06:43 AM
link   
There is a way that seems right unto mankind, but in the end, it leads to death



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 07:43 AM
link   
a reply to: spacemonk

I loved the reasoning here 😊
Just one question...
Why did you choose knowledge over wisdom?



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 07:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: visitedbythem
There is a way that seems right unto mankind, but in the end, it leads to death



Ummm...that's because the body is the host for the spirit/soul...

The soul/spirit can attain purity and perfection...just not in conjunction with the host...

The host is an impure vessel...like a wire through which too much electricity flows...

Purifying the spirit/soul increases the charge and will eventually burn out the vessel/host...

It's all about the Ohms...






YouSir



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 08:13 AM
link   
a reply to: spacemonk


Ummm...that's why we call it Gnosis...or Enlightenment...

It's all about knowledge...or knowing...

The truly astounding part of the equation however...is that this knowledge is gained...not by study...or reading the works of others...
Gnosis and Enlightenment are achieved through quiescence...through practicing quieting the mind...through pursuing not thinking...







YouSir



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 08:20 AM
link   
a reply to: spacemonk
There you go. Right! Trump is a good analogy....



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 08:47 AM
link   
a reply to: YouSir
No need to quieten the mind when the mind is found to be not yours.



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 09:41 AM
link   
cool sentence....made me think....we are in a spiritual war....it takesplace in your head...world vs Spiritual at every sector we walk through

a reply to: Itisnowagain

We have help....and His yoke we accept is really easy and the burden we get tasked with is light....



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 03:01 PM
link   
a reply to: MamaJ

What's the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

Isn't anything a person can know a state of knowledge? What would wisdom be? A special state of knowledge? A non-discursive, non-dialectically driven state of knowledge?



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 05:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: MamaJ

What's the difference between knowledge and wisdom?


For me, it is a very big difference. Knowledge and wisdom are the two polarities at the higher level of the Tree of Life.

Not sure if that was what MamaJ had in mind but I certainly would have considered Wisdom to be more apt because Knowledge and Reason are one and the same from an archetypal point of view.
edit on 18-12-2019 by crowdedskies because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 10:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: YouSir

originally posted by: visitedbythem
There is a way that seems right unto mankind, but in the end, it leads to death



Ummm...that's because the body is the host for the spirit/soul...

The soul/spirit can attain purity and perfection...just not in conjunction with the host...

The host is an impure vessel...like a wire through which too much electricity flows...

Purifying the spirit/soul increases the charge and will eventually burn out the vessel/host...

It's all about the Ohms...






YouSir


I believe that that meant, many humans think performing good works is the way to salvation.

For we are saved by faith, by the grace of God, and not by works, lest any man boast



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 10:42 PM
link   
For I know, whom I have believed. And I am persuaded, that He is able, to keep that which I have committed unto Him, against that day



posted on Dec, 18 2019 @ 11:12 PM
link   
a reply to: spacemonk

Your title is misleading and false.

Salvation is/comes through Jesus Christ - alone.

Pretty simple actually.



posted on Dec, 19 2019 @ 05:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: spacemonk
Therefore it is irresponsible and disrespectful to possess a closed mind to truth, be it present in the form of science, history or ethics, etc. Samadi or Gnosis is the process that helps us live and move in a world of being, knowing that we were and still are [animal].

How openminded are you regarding the truth that we are not animals? And that the word "animal" has been used for centuries to distinguish animals from humans? Until promoters of unverified evolutionary philosophies made the notion that we are animals much more popular by spreading and selling lies/falsehoods about it, things that are not correct/true/factual/certain (all synonyms).

Being closed minded to lies about our nature isn't irresponsible, is it?

In order to understand ourselves, should we look down, as it were, to apes and other animals, as evolutionists do? Or should we look up to God for answers? Granted, we have certain things in common with animals. We have to eat, drink, and sleep, for example, and we are able to reproduce. Still, we are unique in many ways. Reason suggests that our distinct human traits stem from a Being higher than ourselves​—that is, from God. The Bible put that thought succinctly, stating that God formed mankind “in his image” morally and spiritually speaking. (Genesis 1:27) Why not contemplate God’s qualities, some of which are recorded at Deuteronomy 32:4; James 3:17, 18; and 1 John 4:7, 8.

Our Creator has given us the “intellectual capacity” to investigate the world around us and to find satisfying answers to our questions. (1 John 5:20) In this regard, physicist and Nobel laureate William D. Phillips wrote: “When I examine the orderliness, understandability, and beauty of the universe, I am led to the conclusion that a higher intelligence designed what I see. My scientific appreciation of the coherence, and the delightful simplicity of physics strengthens my belief in God.”

Some two thousand years ago, a discerning observer of the natural world wrote: “[God’s] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship.” (Romans 1:20) The writer​—the Christian apostle Paul—​was an intelligent man and highly educated in the Mosaic Law. His reason-based faith made God a reality to him, while his acute sense of justice moved him to give due credit to God for his creative works.



How Unique You Are! (Is There a Creator Who Cares About You?)

...
Your Frontal Lobe

Most neurons in the outer layer of the brain, the cerebral cortex, are not linked directly to muscles and sensory organs. For example, consider the billions of neurons that make up the frontal lobe. (See drawing, page 56.) Brain scans prove that the frontal lobe becomes active when you think of a word or call up memories. The front part of the brain plays a special role in your being you.

“The prefrontal cortex . . . is most involved with elaboration of thought, intelligence, motivation, and personality. It associates experiences necessary for the production of abstract ideas, judgment, persistence, planning, concern for others, and conscience. . . . It is the elaboration of this region that sets human beings apart from other animals.” (Marieb’s Human Anatomy and Physiology) We certainly see evidence of this distinction in what humans have accomplished in fields such as mathematics, philosophy, and justice, which primarily involve the prefrontal cortex.

Why do humans have a large, flexible prefrontal cortex, which contributes to higher mental functions, whereas in animals this area is rudimentary or nonexistent? The contrast is so great that biologists who claim that we evolved speak of the “mysterious explosion in brain size.” Professor of Biology Richard F. Thompson, noting the extraordinary expansion of our cerebral cortex, admits: “As yet we have no very clear understanding of why this happened.” Could the reason lie in man’s having been created with this peerless brain capacity?

Unequaled Communication Skills
...

Note how that scientific publication (Marieb’s Human Anatomy and Physiology), uses the words "animals" and "human beings", not making a clear distinction between the 2 categories of life by saying "other animals", not using those words to distinguish animals from humans (the bias in favor of evolutionary philosophies is quite apparent); all while implying that there is such a significant difference between humans and animals that humans are really in a category of their own (basically contradicting their own usage of the term "other animals"). It's really being hammered home in this system of things (a.k.a. "the Matrix" on this forum).

edit on 19-12-2019 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2019 @ 06:12 AM
link   
a reply to: spacemonk

By the way, what is it exactly that you think you need to be saved from (salvation from)? Spiritual darkness as opposed to light? A non-ideal "state of (mental-physical-mystical) harmony"?

As members of the human family today men find themselves in slavery to sin and death. Forefather Adam foolishly and voluntarily entered slavery to sin and death for the price of eating forbidden fruit in self-will. He sold himself and all his future family to the service of death. Death began to rule as king. This bondage of slavery to death has passed upon all men.

Salvation (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Definition: Preservation or deliverance from danger or destruction. That deliverance may be from the hands of oppressors or persecutors. For all true Christians, Jehovah provides through his Son deliverance from the present wicked system of things as well as salvation from bondage to sin and death. ...

edit on 19-12-2019 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2019 @ 06:23 AM
link   
Salvation from what, themselves is where it leads.

If it one thing most, supposed sophisticated religions hate, it is being compared to animals . That and well thought out or vain philosophies that dont involve their use of their proverbs or nouns.
edit on 19-12-2019 by Specimen88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2019 @ 06:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: MamaJ

What's the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

Isn't anything a person can know a state of knowledge? What would wisdom be? A special state of knowledge? A non-discursive, non-dialectically driven state of knowledge?


What's the difference between education and experience when it come to job opening?

One cant get it with one or the other.



posted on Dec, 19 2019 @ 10:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Astrocyte
a reply to: MamaJ

What's the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

Isn't anything a person can know a state of knowledge? What would wisdom be? A special state of knowledge? A non-discursive, non-dialectically driven state of knowledge?

Essentially, knowledge means familiarity with facts acquired by personal experience, observation, or study. The Bible strongly urges the seeking for and treasuring of right knowledge, recommending it rather than gold. (Pr 8:10; 20:15) Jesus stressed the importance of truly knowing him and his Father, and knowledge is repeatedly emphasized in the books of the Christian Greek Scriptures.​—Joh 17:3; Php 1:9; 2Pe 3:18.

Source of Knowledge. Jehovah is actually the basic Source of knowledge. Life, of course, is from him and life is essential for one’s having any knowledge. (Ps 36:9; Ac 17:25, 28) Furthermore, God created all things, so human knowledge is based on a study of God’s handiwork. (Re 4:11; Ps 19:1, 2) God also inspired his written Word, from which man can learn the divine will and purposes. (2Ti 3:16, 17) Thus the focal point of all true knowledge is Jehovah, and a person seeking it ought to have a fear of God that makes him careful not to incur Jehovah’s displeasure. Such fear is the beginning of knowledge. (Pr 1:7) Such godly fear puts one in position to gain accurate knowledge, whereas those who do not consider God readily draw wrong conclusions from the things that they observe.

The Bible repeatedly links Jehovah and knowledge, calling him “a God of knowledge” and describing him as “perfect in knowledge.”​—1Sa 2:3; Job 36:4; 37:14, 16.

The role that Jehovah has assigned to his Son in the outworking of His purposes is of such importance that it can be said of Jesus: “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.” (Col 2:3) Unless a person exercises faith in Jesus Christ as God’s Son, he cannot grasp the real meaning of the Scriptures and see how God’s purposes are working out in harmony with what He has foretold.

One is helped to appreciate more fully the meaning and importance of knowledge by examining the Hebrew and Greek words often translated “knowledge” as well as by noting the relationship between knowledge and wisdom, understanding, thinking ability, and discernment.

Meaning of Term. In the Hebrew Scriptures a number of words (nouns) that can be translated “knowledge” are related to the basic verb ya·dhaʽʹ, signifying “know (by being told),” “know (by observing),” “know (by personal acquaintance or experience),” or “be experienced, skillful.” The exact shade of meaning, and often the way each word should be translated, must be determined by the context. For instance, God said that he ‘knew’ Abraham and so was sure that that man of faith would command his offspring correctly. Jehovah was not saying simply that he was aware that Abraham existed but, rather, that He had become well acquainted with Abraham, for he had observed Abraham’s obedience and interest in true worship over many years.​—Ge 18:19; Ge 22:12.

As with the verb ya·dhaʽʹ (know), the principal Hebrew word rendered “knowledge” (daʹʽath) carries the basic idea of knowing facts or having information, but at times it includes more than that. For example, Hosea 4:1, 6 says that at a certain time there was no “knowledge of God” in Israel. That does not mean that the people were not aware that Jehovah was God and that he had delivered and led the Israelites in the past. (Ho 8:2) But by their course of murdering, stealing, and committing adultery, they showed that they rejected real knowledge because they were not acting in harmony with it.​—Ho 4:2.

After Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit (Ge 2:17; 3:5, 6), Jehovah said to his associate in creative work (Joh 1:1-3): “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.” (Ge 3:22) This apparently did not mean merely having knowledge of what was good and what was bad for them, for the first man and woman had such knowledge by reason of God’s commands to them. Furthermore, God’s words at Genesis 3:22 could not pertain to their now knowing what was bad by experience, for Jehovah said that they had become like him and he has not learned what is bad by doing it. (Ps 92:14, 15) Evidently, Adam and Eve got to know what was good and what was bad in the special sense of now judging for themselves what was good and what was bad. They were idolatrously placing their judgment above God’s, disobediently becoming a law to themselves, as it were, instead of obeying Jehovah, who has both the right and the wisdom necessary to determine good and bad. So their independent knowledge, or standard, of good and bad was not like that of Jehovah. Rather, it was one that led them to misery.​—Jer 10:23.

In the Christian Greek Scriptures there are two words commonly translated “knowledge,” gnoʹsis and e·piʹgno·sis. Both are related to the verb gi·noʹsko, which means “know; understand; perceive.” The way this verb is used in the Bible, though, shows that it can indicate a favorable relationship between the person and one he “knows.” (1Co 8:3; 2Ti 2:19) Knowledge (gnoʹsis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) The recommended knowledge is about God and his purposes. (2Pe 1:5) This involves more than merely having facts, which many atheists have; a personal devotion to God and Christ is implied. (Joh 17:3; 6:68, 69) Whereas having knowledge (information alone) might result in a feeling of superiority, our knowing “the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge,” that is, knowing this love by experience because we are personally imitating his loving ways, will balance and give wholesome direction to our use of any information we may have gained.​—Eph 3:19.

E·piʹgno·sis, a strengthened form of gnoʹsis (e·piʹ, meaning “additional”), can often be seen from the context to mean “exact, accurate, or full knowledge.” Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [“a real knowledge,” TC; “a personal knowledge,” Ro; “clear, full knowledge,” Da ftn] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7) He also prayed that ones in the Colossian congregation, who obviously had some knowledge of God’s will, for they had become Christians, “be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension.” (Col 1:9) Such accurate knowledge should be sought by all Christians (Eph 1:15-17; Php 1:9; 1Ti 2:3, 4), it being important in putting on “the new personality” and in gaining peace.​—Col 3:10; 2Pe 1:2.

Related Attributes. Frequently in the Bible, knowledge is linked with other attributes such as wisdom, understanding, discernment, and thinking ability. (Pr 2:1-6, 10, 11) Grasping the basic differences between these greatly illuminates many texts. It is to be acknowledged, though, that the original words involved cannot be said to match invariably certain English words. The setting and the use of a word affect the sense. Nonetheless, certain interesting differences emerge when one notes the Bible’s references to knowledge, wisdom, understanding, discernment, and thinking ability.

[continued in next comment]



posted on Dec, 19 2019 @ 10:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Astrocyte

Wisdom. Wisdom is the ability to put knowledge to work, or to use it, the intelligent application of learning. A person might have considerable knowledge but not know how to use it because of lacking wisdom. Jesus linked wisdom with accomplishment in saying: “Wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” (Mt 11:19) Solomon asked for and received from God not just knowledge but also wisdom. (2Ch 1:10; 1Ki 4:29-34) In the case of two women who claimed the same child, Solomon had knowledge of a mother’s devotion to her child; he displayed wisdom by using his knowledge to settle the dispute. (1Ki 3:16-28) “Wisdom is the prime thing,” for without it knowledge is of little value. (Pr 4:7; 15:2) Jehovah abounds in and provides both knowledge and wisdom.​—Ro 11:33; Jas 1:5.

Understanding. Understanding is the ability to see how the parts or aspects of something relate to one another, to see the entire matter and not just isolated facts. The Hebrew root verb bin has the basic meaning “separate” or “distinguish,” and it is often rendered “understand” or “discern.” It is similar with the Greek sy·niʹe·mi. Thus at Acts 28:26 (quoting Isa 6:9, 10) it could be said that the Jews heard but did not understand, or did not put together. They did not grasp how the points or thoughts fitted together to mean something to them. Proverbs 9:10, in saying that “knowledge of the Most Holy One is what understanding is,” shows that true understanding of anything involves appreciation of its relation to God and his purposes. Because a person with understanding is able to connect new information to things he already knows, it can be said that “to the understanding one knowledge is an easy thing.” (Pr 14:6) Knowledge and understanding are allied, and both are to be sought.​—Pr 2:5; 18:15.

Discernment. A Hebrew word frequently rendered “discernment” (tevu·nahʹ) is related to the word bi·nahʹ, translated “understanding.” Both appear at Proverbs 2:3, which the translation by The Jewish Publication Society renders: “If thou call for understanding, and lift up thy voice for discernment . . . ” As with understanding, discernment involves seeing or recognizing things, but it emphasizes distinguishing the parts, weighing or evaluating one in the light of the others. A person who unites knowledge and discernment controls what he says and is cool of spirit. (Pr 17:27) The one opposing Jehovah displays lack of discernment. (Pr 21:30) Through his Son, God gives discernment (full understanding or insight).​—2Ti 2:1, 7, NW, NE.

Thinking ability. Knowledge is also related to what is sometimes translated “thinking ability” (Heb., mezim·mahʹ). The Hebrew word can be used in a bad sense (evil ideas, schemes, devices) or a favorable one (shrewdness, sagacity). (Ps 10:2; Pr 1:4) Thus the mind and thoughts can be directed to an admirable, upright end, or just the opposite. By paying close attention to the way Jehovah does things and by inclining one’s ears to all the various aspects of His will and purposes, a person safeguards his own thinking ability, directing it into right channels. (Pr 5:1, 2) Properly exercised thinking ability, harmonious with godly wisdom and knowledge, will guard a person against being ensnared by immoral enticements.​—Pr 2:10-12.


Caution in Gaining Knowledge. Solomon apparently put knowledge in a negative light when saying: “For in the abundance of wisdom there is an abundance of vexation, so that he that increases knowledge increases pain.” (Ec 1:18) This would appear contrary to the general view of knowledge one finds in the Bible. However, Solomon here stresses again the vanity of human endeavors in all matters other than the carrying out of God’s commands. (Ec 1:13, 14) Thus, a man may gain knowledge and wisdom in many fields, or he may explore deeply some specialized field, and such knowledge and wisdom may be proper in themselves, though not directly related to God’s declared purpose. Yet, with such increased knowledge and wisdom the man may well become more keenly aware of how limited his opportunities are to use his knowledge and wisdom because of his short life span and because of the problems and bad conditions that confront and oppose him in imperfect human society. This is vexing, producing a painful sense of frustration. (Compare Ro 8:20-22; Ec 12:13, 14; see ECCLESIASTES.) Thus, too, the knowledge obtained by ‘devotion to many books,’ unless tied in with and put to use in the carrying out of God’s commands, is “wearisome to the flesh.”​—Ec 12:12.

Wisdom (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

The Biblical sense of wisdom lays emphasis on sound judgment, based on knowledge and understanding; the ability to use knowledge and understanding successfully to solve problems, avoid or avert dangers, attain certain goals, or counsel others in doing so. It is the opposite of foolishness, stupidity, and madness, with which it is often contrasted.​—De 32:6; Pr 11:29; Ec 6:8.

The basic terms signifying wisdom are the Hebrew chokh·mahʹ (verb, cha·khamʹ) and the Greek so·phiʹa, with their related forms. Also, there are the Hebrew tu·shi·yahʹ, which may be rendered “effectual working” or “practical wisdom,” and the Greek phroʹni·mos and phroʹne·sis (from phren, the “mind”), relating to “sensibleness,” “discretion,” or “practical wisdom.”

Wisdom implies a breadth of knowledge and a depth of understanding, these giving the soundness and clarity of judgment characteristic of wisdom. The wise man ‘treasures up knowledge,’ has a fund of it to draw upon. (Pr 10:14) While “wisdom is the prime thing,” the counsel is that “with all that you acquire, acquire understanding.” (Pr 4:5-7) Understanding (a broad term that frequently embraces discernment) adds strength to wisdom, contributing greatly to discretion and foresight, also notable characteristics of wisdom. Discretion implies prudence and may be expressed in caution, self-control, moderation, or restraint. The “discreet [form of phroʹni·mos] man” builds his house on a rock-mass, foreseeing the possibility of storm; the foolish man builds his on sand and suffers disaster.​—Mt 7:24-27.

Understanding fortifies wisdom in other ways. For example, ...

OK, probably a little more than you asked for...

edit on 19-12-2019 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join