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The Sensitivity of the Human Soul and Reality

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posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 02:51 PM
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When we talk about reality, is reality the claims of the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita? Or is reality the ruins of Gobekli Tepe, carbon dated to 10,000 years before the common era, or Catalhoyuk, dated to 8,000 years before the common era?

Gobekli Tepe


Catalhoyuk


If the ruins of these ancient cultures are real, then what are we to make of our cherished belief systems - our holy books? Even outside these ancient ruins, there's the complication of why devout believers of the Bible, the Quran, or the Gita, aren't perplexed or bothered by the inconsistencies between the claims they make and the claims others make? Why must one be right and the others be wrong? Why couldn't it be that all sides are doing the same thing: trying to cope with realities confusing conditions.

Wouldn't this be the most coherent formulation of the inconsistencies that exist between various religions, and between the religions that exist and the scientific disciplines which study the behavior of matter (physics), living systems (biophysics), how these living systems work and evolve (biology, evolutionary biology), and how they've become socially complex (primatology) in humans (anthropology) and how these creatures feel and think (psychology)? The sciences are interested in how things work. Why things work the way they do is a question that is best clarified by understanding how we work, since knowing how has significance for improving our relationship to the question of why.

It's been said, and I generally agree with this formulation, that religion is about nurturing our spiritual needs as self-consciousness organisms. I would also that our spiritual needs are not unrelated to our physiological and homeostatic needs as material organisms, since what we feel is largely influenced by what we eat, when we eat, and how we eat (i.e. chewing, focusing on digestion), as well as the amount and quality of rest we get, our exposure to pathogens, and the amount of physical activity we get.



I wrote a thread previously criticizing the concept of the resurrection of the dead, and although it seemed to be appreciated by a few people, many of the people who responded, it seems to me, responded out of fear. For me, this is a matter of the science of psychology, and the way humans are organized from the ground up, from birth onwards, to make sense of their experiences in the world with narratives. The following two charts may be difficult to understand, but they capture the 'tensegrities', or tensions, that constitute our various connections with external parts of the environment. The first diagram deserves to be studied, and any ideas which seem nebulous should be further inquired into.



This second chart is a little more complex. The bottom layer is about the way our bodily processes are fundamentally a function of symmetry dynamics within the physical matter which composes us. We are dynamical systems that are controlled by symmetry and asymmetry. Symmetry produces feelings of coherency: interest, alacrity, zest, joy, fun, love, and awe, are all experiences of a symmetry process between our physical system (our brain) and the world of objects outside of us. Asymmetry sets up the unremarkable shifts in being (changes in any domain of experience - in vision, audition, smell, taste, touch, interoception, proprioception), small conflicts ("what is that"?) which compel symmetry ("oh, its a squirrel") to resolve, and more basic, diffuse, but powerfully reorganizing processes which act most powerfully upon us when we're infants and children, and which receives far less emphasis and significance once we grow up into adults. The emphasis is so paltry and the significance so hackneyed that its metaphysical significance in gating what it is we can and cannot know goes unnoticed.



As social beings, we are built through shame-pride processes, processes which stimulate and empower our experiences of being selves. In the language-focused world we grow within, this part of our being is largely dissociated and perilously underemphasized, with disastrous results. The reason has to do with what we idealize and desire, that is, in seeking only states of pride and refusing to interface with and know our states of shame, humans create an imbalance within their unconscious - that part of our being which contains all our past experiences and processes them unconsciously before we feel and cognize. Knowing what we need to regulate ourselves is the highest level of self-knowledge, whereas pretending we have access to unalloyed truth, as if we don't have feeling needs deriving from the symmetry dynamics between our body and the world, deepens the alienation between one another and ourselves.

Gobekli Tepe and Catalhoyuk are real. They invalidate the historical claims of the Bible. But this doesn't mean the Bible doesn't contain any fundamental truths about what we are and what we need as spiritual beings.

Nurturing our biological natures is the heart and soul of what religion is. Caring for and helping those who suffer with our love, and learning from our past mistakes to better the human beings relationship with reality is the mission we are all on, whether we're aware of it or not.

There is no "new earth" and new reality that is not THIS Earth and THIS reality. A New Earth is about a new relationship with reality. Ends of the world have always had this connotation in mind, and it has to do with the fact that the end of a world is the end of our body's dynamical coherency with the world we knew. A changing world is very much an end of a world for many people - excepting those very few who've come to accept the very depth of reality. But even these latter people cannot know what dreams may come, what excitement reality may offer us.

No one can know what a world of loving humans is really like - what it does to a human body to live in such a world. None of us know it, because all of us encounter the effects that shame creates for us - in generating fronts, masks, and other self-protecting mechanisms.

edit on 10-12-2019 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 03:21 PM
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Caring for and helping those who suffer with our love, and learning from our past mistakes to better the human beings relationship with reality is the mission we are all on, whether we're aware of it or not.


IMO, this is the most important statement in your thread.


edit on 12/10/2019 by shawmanfromny because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

All I have to say is, this is way too deep for a Tuesday!
(for me anyways)
Will save for another day to digest!


edit on 10-12-2019 by JAGStorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 03:33 PM
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I knew it was you who wrote this before I opened it, lol. You're one of our only dedicated philosophers around here anymore.

Please keep sharing your thoughts and keep asking questions, you add diversity in discussion to this board and it'd get quiet real quick without you.

About your question in the OP:
First I think the graphic of the Ontological Structure of the mind is bizzare and find it fascinating it's depicted as a Hexagram / Star of David symbol. I wonder if that's a coincidence??

About carbon dating techniques, we should all know by now those measurements are simply unreliable at best for dozens of great reasons.

I'm not saying our dating methods are incorrect, but merely they are inaccurate and getting accurate readings can be exceptionally difficult.

It's also based on theory and isn't exactly verifiable until we develop a time machine to go back and check. I don't believe time machines are even possible though so we may not know for sure in this lifetime.

I agree completely that "the end of the world" could actually be referring to the "end of our old ignorant views of the world". I mean c'mon the last book of the Bible is called "Revelations" and the "Apocalypse" actually means "uncovering, revealing, Revelation".

So yes they could be, and likely actually are, referring to a change of perspective rather than the actual dissolution of the Earth itself physically.



posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 03:33 PM
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Religion was sparked by our ancestors having a strong consciousness of the universe around them. Just the fact that somewhere along the lines humans ritualized the sun going up, sun going down, moon going up, moon going down, and repeating for basically, ever in our existence is more then enough for people now days to realize we are more connected to that same universe just in more complicated and complex ways.

Religions of old in my opinion, haven't kept up with these times, we connect with nature and universe in different ways, we don't need folk lore and fairy tales to explain to us that the reason earthquakes happen is because some god or giant turtle is swimming by, or that death is just part of life.
If you take the moral lessons of religions with a grain of salt, I can see how it can bring someone closer to their true intentions in life, and I am OK with that, as long as it brings peace to them, and it connects them to the universe around them in a peaceful way.



posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

I appreciate all the work you've put into this thread. Certainly things to ponder and great for fascinating discussions.



posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte
Thanks,
I enjoyed the read.







posted on Dec, 10 2019 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: muzzleflash

The hexagon is just an interesting coincidence.

To explain the bizarreness.

When you think of a cell, and you look at its body, you have to see its body as in a 'tensional' relationship with external factors which both build the body and harm the body. DNA is basically a record of what is good and what to do to protect the system from harmful agents. Protein membranes are the 'detectors' in the cell which are literally attuned electromagnetically to the shifting field effects in the environment which indicate nutrients/toxins. So the green circle with "organism" on one end and "nutrients/toxins" on the other describes a point-counterpoint relationship which describes a tensegrity science terms "homeostasis".

Since this sort of process is basic to what the life process is, its the most fundamental parameter in our living. This is why its higher up. As an impersonal process all about the flow of matter through a physical system as it relates to factors (nutrients/toxins) outside of it, its shown in green. At the lower end of the figure, also in green, there is the body-environment tensegrity which describes how the organism moves in the world. Its a tensegrity termed "movement", in that movement is, just like homeostasis, a carefully calibrated tensional system between one point and another point. One point is our musculature; and the other point is the surfaces we move upon.

The green vector, as an impersonal vector, moves towards symmetry. Conversely, the blue vector moves towards an ideal (the ideal and symmetry being two perspectives implicit within a singular process), but starts at and is framed by the self-other tensegrity. Just as the homeostasis vector changes the body-environment vector (if you're sick your muscles are weak; or conversely, if you work your muscles hard in activity you temporally compromise your immune functioning) the self-other tensegrity frames how we regulate within our bodies, and how we conceptualize within our heads. This tensegrity is the non-verbal signalling continuum between one human and another human. Since we always influence one another's self-organization by the way our body's have historically processed/adapted to certain forms of signals, the self-other tensegrity of non-verbal communication frames all subsequent processing at higher levels.

The level in the middle, the reflection-prereflection tensegrity is called "affect regulation", which is a pretty popular idea in modern day psychology. This simply means this: when you catch another persons body language, facial expression, or vocal tone, your body already has a historically trained way of constricting your experience to 'know' in a certain way. Since we have multiple forms of interactions, depending on the intersubjective context were in, and the state our body is in (homeostasis), a different form of knowing can emerge within our prereflective bodily experience. This experiential level is a regulation strategy at the right brain, limbic core, viscerosensory level, which your reflective process in turn seeks to regulate with some sort of conscious "rightness". The left brain, cortical, motor (executive) response is always about making something you feel compatible with something you believe (or have believed) at a conscious level. So reflection and prereflection is a phenomenological process of regulating feeling in the body into conscious knowing, with selection occurring at both levels.

After this level of processing, there is the fact that our minds are full of concepts and ideas about things. There cannot be a concept without an opposing concept, and so conceptualization is literally the transformation and constraining of physiological processes within our nervous systems into symmetries and asymmetries that capture "differences which make a difference". Speech (which conveys concepts) is the extension of the phenomenological process into the intersubjective space between us. Speech makes inner percepts knowable, and in being knowable, humans evolve deeper levels of knowing reality together. At this level, reasoning is the tensegrity we engage in that holds concepts in a balanced and coherent ordering.

All together there are 5 tensegrities which make up the qualities that shape our mental experience: homeostasis, movement (this also includes sensory modalities like vision, audition, touch, taste and smell), non-verbal communication, affect regulation, and reasoning. Anything and everything which happens within our head can be plausibly reduced to one of these tensegrities. For example, imagination is just the application of material from the sensorymotor domain (influenced by homeostasis/affect regulation domains) into the conceptual domain where we reason (or make coherent) some imaginary reality we're interested in simulating.



posted on Dec, 11 2019 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: Astrocyte



Nurturing our biological natures is the heart and soul of what religion is. Caring for and helping those who suffer with our love, and learning from our past mistakes to better the human beings relationship with reality is the mission we are all on, whether we're aware of it or not.


This is a Statement towards oneness. But the information that is evolving in our unconsciousness is not for all beings going on an upwards spiral towards oneness. Some beings are clearly spiritually/awareness de-evolving on a downward spiral towards total separation.

There is a difference in awareness and possibility of oneness in different beings that cause automatic (duality) separation since other people cannot handle the reality/information.

Einstein for instance could not handle entanglement (two quanta points in space time that are effecting each other regardless of distance) and invented the left right glove idea to cope with the measurements that reality revealed. Niels Bohr could handle it.

Every statement that can be made can be tested if it is a true representation of what is.

Some people play around with energetic laying of hands to calm another biological body to cause relaxation (effecting heat/cold/vibration in the nerve system). Many people cannot handle the reality that this tool exist to be used and will not seek to know it.

Some statement in religious text are upward spiral towards oneness. Some religious statement are made to create separation and hate between people to give controllers power (divide and conqueror). Some people move towards divinity, some people move towards narcissistic behavior.
edit on 11-12-2019 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2019 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Astrocyte


Astrocyte:
Nurturing our biological natures is the heart and soul of what religion is. Caring for and helping those who suffer with our love, and learning from our past mistakes to better the human beings relationship with reality is the mission we are all on, whether we're aware of it or not.



LittleByLittle:This is a Statement towards oneness. But the information that is evolving in our unconsciousness is not for all beings going on an upwards spiral towards oneness. Some beings are clearly spiritually/awareness de-evolving on a downward spiral towards total separation.

We came from absolute Oneness to deliberately experience separation/individuality in order to grow the system. There is a lot of energy generated that is collected sold consumed with separation anxiety; it rivals a Mothers protection for its progeny in value. We escape Oneness (a boring drum beat of love acceptance) to experience a dangerous environment in order for God to test/know itself. We are God experiencing Itself.
edit on 11-12-2019 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



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