This thread will be about just one issue that was covered; the Fisa application and spying of Carter Page.
I have been on record saying that I felt that the idea that a opposition research paid for by a political party to spy on the other party with the FBi
is the biggest political scandal in the history of the country.
I was told the dossier wasn’t used, it was but others facts were used as well, it was used but it was verified, etc.
We now know today that this was all untrue, and my initial assessment was correct.
In fact, its actually worse than I initially thought.
Not only was this oppo research used by the Obama intel agencies to spy on trumps team without being verified, but the FBI intentionally left out
relevant information from the application, and even in one case making up things to justify the spying.
The media and the dems will spin this as a victory though, because the IG does not specifically give criminal referrals. Instead he says members of
the FBI, including senior officials should be investigated by the FBI and they should decide what to do.
But this is not a victory for the intel community and their media mouth pieces; it’s a scathing indictment of them.
First, the IG does away with the claim that has been repeated over and over that the dossier was not the only thing used to surveill Carter Page.
While this is technically true, it is a strawman. No one ever claimed other info was present on the application, the claim was without the steele
dossier, the application would not have been granted.
This is exactly what the IG report finds. Page 7
We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team's r eceipt of Steele's election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential
role in the FBI's and Department's decision to seek the FISA order.
In support of the fourth element in the FISA application-Carter Page's alleged coordination w ith t he Russian government on 2016 U.S.
presidential election activities-the application relied entirely on the following information from Steele Reports 80, 94, 95, and 102
This is further backed up by admissions leadership decided not to get a fisa application on Page until they received the steele dossier.
Now we know the dossier was the reason the fisa application on Page was sought and given.
Next, we know the FBI never verified the info that steele gave them before using it to request being able to spy on this trump associate.
We found that the FBI did not have information corroborating the specific allegations against Carter Page in Steele's reporting when it relied
upon his reports in the first FISA application or subsequent renewal applications.
This proves my fear in October of 2017; Obamas FBI used unverified oppo research paid for by the dems to spy on the republicans candidate for
This alone makes it the biggest political scandal in the history of the country.
As I wrote back then
“The precedent has now been set for a sitting Presidents party to pay foreign agents to go to countries that we are rivals or enemies with, get any
kind of poorly written or scandalous info from that countries agents about the other parties candidate, then without the other party knowing it, get
Fisa warrants to investigate and survey them with the FBI, spread that info far and why and to make sure it gets leaked to the press, and even tell
allies about it.
In effect, this makes the FBI a tool for the sitting party to act as its own opposition research team; a team that can violate your rights and arrest
you. It is the most Orwellian thing imaginable, and should be rejected in the strongest possible terms, and all of those responsible need to be held
However, its worse than just that.
We also know that in addition to the above, the FBI went further, and decided to violate the FISA application process on at least 17 occasions by
omitting or falsifying evidence.
The IG report lists all 17, 7 of which occurred on the first Fisa application, and 10 of which occurred during the renewals; all of which as terrible.
But I will highlight a few of the most troubling ones.
This means that the FBI correctly told the Fisa court that Page had dealings with criminal Russians, but left out those dealings were to help another
US agency bring this corrupt Russains to justice. This literally gives the exact opposite impression of the truth to the Fusa judge.
The IG finds this particularly troubling. Steele has no first hand knowledge of any of his claims, instead reling on sources. One of the sources he
used that was deemed credible by the FBI directly disputes Steeles, such as saying they had no contact with wikileaks, and did noty feel there were
any troubling conversations between trumps team and the Kremlin.
In other words, the exact opposite of what steele was claiming. Yet the FBI omitted this evidence.
The FBI not only held back info that Page was a source for another US agency in trying to bring down corrupt Russians, but changed an email from that
agency to say the exact opposite of the truth, that Page “was not a source”.
This is beyond damning. Page’s work with the US to bring down corrupt Russian officials was twisted to make it seem that he was in fact working
with the Russian officials and needed to be investigated for it.
The conclusion of the IG was that three handpicked agencies had vilated procedure terribly, from the agents on ten ground to the FBI leadership, and
the FBI should investigate this.
Now we know that no specific criminal referrals were given, which is being considered a victory by the intel agencies/media/dems. But unless he found
an emails saying they were doing this because they hated trump, he wouldnt claim to know there intent.
However, what are the chances all of these FBi people we know hate trump just "accidentally" keep doing things to harm him in violation of FBI
Imagine if Trump intel people had done this to his dem opponent. The FBI breaking policy to spy on one candidate is far more troubling than anything
Russia could do.
Taken in conjunction with the media running cover for them, them leaking details to the media to damage trump and his team, the heads of the intel
agencies almost all professing their hatred of trump and getting jobs with the media, and this is even worse.
Watergate is considered a huge scandal, and that was just two bumblers spying on a candidate in a hotel.
Imagine the entire FBI breaking policy to do so, and you can see how this abuse is by far a bigger threat to our country and elections than anything a
foreign power could do.
"It is also clear that, from its inception, the evidence produced by the investigation was consistently exculpatory," Barr continued.
"Nevertheless, the investigation and surveillance was pushed forward for the duration of the campaign and deep into President Trump’s
edit on 9-12-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)
There's a lot going on today and I've been at work so this is the first I've heard about the IG report. Sounds like status quo. The government and
their agencies can do whatever they please and get away with it. Only if it's done by the opposition of the deep state does it become an issue. And
then, it's just off of hearsay.
edit on 12-9-2019 by LogicalGraphitti because: misspelled "then"
What I see with your line of reasoning is flat our denial. The left doesn't want to discuss the proof you bring to light because there really isn't a
rebuttal to it unless you just admit you are a criminal masquerading as a government whore. I think eventually it will sink in how the reverse of
this could happen and might make them see the light, but I guess we have to remember the level at which thinking seems to occur at.
a reply to: Grambler
I love how you put this in perspective. I really love reading your OP’s.
Please keep doing what you are doing.
I’m amazed how all this, what was dismissed as ‘rightwing conspiracys’, is actually true. This ís bigger then Watergate...
So sad that the IG refuses to admit there was bias. Just like his Comey report. He states all the fact that point to bias, then he flatout says: no
I’ll be tuning in to the senate hearing on Wednesday.
edit on 9-12-2019 by Goedhardt because: (no reason given)
Also, credit to somebody I follow, "Don't lose focus".
*The IG report isn't about whether the FBI was allowed to investigate Trump or not, the FBI has absolute broad sweeping powers to investigate, that's
their ultimate power, this is not disputed at all and thus a total farce for anyone trying to assert that claim.
The beauty of Gramblers thread is exactly the point and primary mission in Horowitzs investigation, asked and tasked with whether or not the FBI
abused their powers in their own probes, notably the ***FISA process.
BREAKING: U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee contains TRAITORS to the United States Constitution.
During the 2016 and 2017 effort to weaponize the institutions of government against the outside candidacy of Donald Trump, the Senate Select
Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) was a participating entity.
Dianne Feinstein, Richard Burr, Mark Warner, Daniel Jones, and James Wolfe were all participants of varying degrees.
FYI - Doing a copy/paste from the DOJ's Office of Inspector General website before it's taken down. Most Trump and rule-of-law supporters began
morphing their expectations beyond what I.G. Horowitz is capable of determining, or doing.
Examination of the Department’s and the FBI’s Compliance with Legal Requirements and Policies in Applications Filed with the U.S. Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Court Relating to a certain U.S. Person
The OIG, in response to requests from the Attorney General and Members of Congress, is examining the Department’s and the FBI’s compliance with
legal requirements, and with applicable DOJ and FBI policies and procedures, in applications filed with the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance
Court (FISC) relating to a certain U.S. person.
As part of this examination, the OIG is also reviewing information that was known to the DOJ and the FBI at the time the applications were filed from
or about an alleged FBI confidential source.
Additionally, the OIG is reviewing the DOJ’s and FBI’s relationship and communications with the alleged source as they relate to the FISC
If circumstances warrant, the OIG will consider including other issues that may arise during the course of the review.
He's admitted that for years. He had been debriefing the Cia on all his interactions with Russian individuals going back to at least 2015 I think. The
CIA will have records of all of it.
Yet the FBI still twisted and made up reports to paint him as a Russian agent to the FISA court.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
In this specific instance, there wasn't and isn't any plausible alternative explanations for the FBI's gross levels of corruption. The remote
possibility of the FBI's incompetence explaining away there misconduct is gone. The level of FBI incompetence required for the evidential omissions
not to have political motivations was implausible. Logically, any person who doesn't suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, would have concluded the
Russian Trump dossier was suspect or fake.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Devinb Nunes has been fully vindicated. Let's also remember that Schiff and teh Democrats tried to smear Nunes as a liar when Nunes broke all this
information. Now Nunes has been proven correct.
The Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign, through electronic surveillance and FBI assets implanted into the Trump campaign. Not only
that, lies and ommissions were employed to help them sucure authorisdation through FISA for their spying.
How one reacts to these facts is for themselves to determine, but there is now no denying the spying and the FISA abuse.
I watch the show from north here In Canada (ho man tv here are far left leaning so orange bad man all day long , for me i see him as a master clown
doing what he's best for .. a show ) for a while, the only thing that come to mind about this right now if there is no one in shackle "parade" from
a office to a police car you guy are played and they all work in hands to # you up ;0)
edit on 10-12-2019 by Dolby_X because: (no reason
FYI - Doing a copy/paste from the DOJ's Office of Inspector General website before it's taken down. Most Trump and rule-of-law supporters
began morphing their expectations beyond what I.G. Horowitz is capable of determining, or doing.
Barr pointed that out in his statement that Horowitz's investigating capabilities are limited, unlike Durham who gets to interview people outside of
the department and in other countries too.
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