The Attack on Pearl Harbor Was One of the Best Things That Could Have Happened

originally posted by: Mach2
Midway was pivotal, from the standpoint of protecting Hawaii, and the west coast, so I don't believe conceding there was even a consideration.

Churchill had been requesting the US Fleet sail for the Atlantic before and after the Midway engagement and as I mentioned above Midway did not stop the IJN from mounting naval offensives, they still had more functional carriers than the United States and many more surface vessels. The United States shipbuilding program wouldn't start delivering replacement ships until 1943 and 44.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: smurfy
What is very striking is that the Japanese attack was influenced by a 1925 novel called The Great Pacific War, written by a British author Hector Bywater, who was a naval analyst, who pretty much predicted the event of a US/Japanese war???

His attack was on the Panama Canal.

That's correct! ??

a reply to: JIMC5499

I'm giving a F&S..

Many here can't see it. Your argument has value. It takes time to see the complexity of what you're trying to convey.

You were right up front. Thank you.

originally posted by: smurfy
That's correct! ??

yeah, the novel has them blowing up a cargo vessel in the shipping channel shutting down the canal. At the outset of the Pacific War the United States was worried about the Canal and had a carrier stationed there along with some of the older battleships. They eventually shifted the carrier to the South Pacific when they realized the IJN could not make it to the Canal Zone.

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: JIMC5499
With this being the 78th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, I thought that it might be a good time to throw this out here.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was one of the best things that could have happened to the U.S. Navy.

Now, let me explain my reasons for saying this. I spent from 1982 through 1987 in the Navy. My squadron deployed on aircraft carriers. The Navy has a policy of continuing the professional education of it's personnel. One of the main subjects of this is U.S. Naval History. As a result the libraries on Navy bases and on ship have a large selection of reading material. (this was before the Internet) One of those sources are thesis from the Naval Postgraduate School. I read one that was titled "Thank God For Pearl Harbor". I'm going to list some of the reasons in that thesis.

1. The attack saved many lives. If the Japanese wouldn't have attacked Pearl, the Fleet would have gone to the defense of the Philippines. At the time the Japanese Fleet out numbered and out classed the US Fleet. Almost half of the lives lost in the attack came from one battleship, the USS Arizona. Five other battleships were sunk or damaged in the attack, but, the majority of their crews survived, by being able to swim ashore or by being rescued. If the attack hadn't happened the US Fleet would have engaged the Japanese in the open ocean, resulting in a larger loss of life.

2. Four out of the six battleships were able to be salvaged and returned to duty, because of their being sunk in shallow water. Again if the US Fleet had gone after the Japanese Fleet, odds are that they would have been sunk in deep water, with no chance of salvage.

3. The attack changed the doctrine of the US Navy. It forced them to use the forces that they had left. The aircraft carriers and submarines. Prior to the attack, Navy doctrine was to use the carriers and submarines as scouts to locate enemy forces so that they could be engaged by the battleships. Little thought was given to attacking with carriers or using submarines to interdict the enemy's supply lines.

4. The attack forced the US Navy to modernize it's aircraft and tactics. Many planes were destroyed in the attack, but, the pilots and flight crews survived. The few pilots who got into the air found that they were out matched by Japanese fighter aircraft. The Navy was forced to replace it's aircraft with newer models. If the attack hadn't happened they would have gone up against the Japanese in the older aircraft and probably would have lost more pilots and aircrew. This was later proven by how easy the Japanese shot down the aircraft based on Midway during the Battle of Midway.

These are just some things to think about.

No, the biggest mistake Japan ever did was not doing a land invasion after on. Japs have been known to have crap strategies since their war against China. You cannot win a war without a land war.

In all seriousness. The Pearl Harbour attack was to cripple US navy because everyone knows US has been building a massive naval force. They failed.

I don't think you have a real understanding of the Japanese strategy.

Their whole line of reasoning was based on the belief that the US would sue for peace, allowing them free reign in the Asia/Pacific area.

Invading Hawaii would have gone totally against that premise.

originally posted by: Mach2
Invading Hawaii would have gone totally against that premise.

Plus they had no actual plans to invade Hawaii.

a reply to: JIMC5499


In Retrospect , it has been surmised by some Historians that FDR is a War Criminal due to the Researched Allegation that he Knew Beforehand that Pearl Harbor would be Attacked by the Japanese Navy and Deliberately let it Happen in order to Convince the American Public to Support entering into a War Footing against the Axis Powers in 1941 .

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Mach2
Midway was pivotal, from the standpoint of protecting Hawaii, and the west coast, so I don't believe conceding there was even a consideration.

Churchill had been requesting the US Fleet sail for the Atlantic before and after the Midway engagement and as I mentioned above Midway did not stop the IJN from mounting naval offensives, they still had more functional carriers than the United States and many more surface vessels. The United States shipbuilding program wouldn't start delivering replacement ships until 1943 and 44.

I agree, they were by no means destroyed as a naval power at Midway, but it sure put a damper on any future offensive operations in the central pacific.

originally posted by: Mach2
I agree, they were by no means destroyed as a naval power at Midway, but it sure put a damper on any future offensive operations in the central pacific.

Central, yes. The South Pacific and Southeast Asia? No. They were still taking territory up to the Guadalcanal campaign and both Australia and New Zealand were concerned that shipping could be cut off by the Japanese operations there.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: JIMC5499


In Retrospect , it has been surmised by some Historians that FDR is a War Criminal due to the Researched Allegation that he Knew Beforehand that Pearl Harbor would be Attacked by the Japanese Navy and Deliberately let it Happen in order to Convince the American Public to Support entering into a War Footing against the Axis Powers in 1941 .

Although that is an interesting conspiracy theory, I've never seen verifiable evidence.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Excellent discourse my friend. You are more knowledgeable than most about the Pacific theater of WWII.

When a lot of ppl discuss the war, everything aside from Europe is just an afterthought, when in fact some very interesting, and monumental things occured in the Pacific, as well as China/Burma.

nvm

a reply to: Mach2



Before Dec. 7th 1941 , the U.S. was Decoding Japanese Navel Communications , that Is a Historical Fact . Whether or Not the Attack on Pearl Harbor was Gleamed from that Intelligence is Still up for Debate . To this Date it is Still Classified Information .

a reply to: Mach2

Thank you. I find the naval engagements, the commanding officers involved and the strategies of both sides to be very interesting. The book I recommended is fantastic, it really gets into detail of what naval battles in the machine age were really like. The decisive battle, where the only two remaining United States capital ships, the Washington and South Dakota, take on the Japanese invasion fleet is great theater as told by the author.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
Before Dec. 7th 1941 , the U.S. was Decoding Japanese Navel Communications , that Is a Historical Fact .

Japan's most secure navel (sic) code, JN-25, was no more than 10% broken on December 7th, 1941.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: JIMC5499


In Retrospect , it has been surmised by some Historians that FDR is a War Criminal due to the Researched Allegation that he Knew Beforehand that Pearl Harbor would be Attacked by the Japanese Navy and Deliberately let it Happen in order to Convince the American Public to Support entering into a War Footing against the Axis Powers in 1941 .

I wonder anymore if this is still a conspiracy site. Sometimes it seems that support for mainstream is paramount anymore. Also interesting that your comment was the first to go against the official story in this thread. Hmmmmm

But those wacky conspiracy people having the gall to even question our honest and truthful government who always has our best interests at heart.

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?

...When Thomas Dewey was running for president against Roosevelt in 1944 he found out about America’s ability to intercept Japan’s radio messages, and thought this knowledge would enable him to defeat the popular FDR. In the fall of that year, Dewey planned a series of speeches charging FDR with foreknowledge of the attack. Ultimately, General George Marshall, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, persuaded Dewey not to make the speeches. Japan’s naval leaders did not realize America had cracked their codes, and Dewey’s speeches could have sacrificed America’s code-breaking advantage. So, Dewey said nothing, and in November FDR was elected president for the fourth time.

Now, though, according to Robert Stinnett, author of Simon & Schuster’s Day Of Deceit, we have the proof. Stinnett’s book is dedicated to Congressman John Moss, the author of America’s Freedom of Information Act. According to Stinnett, the answers to the mysteries of Pearl Harbor can be found in the extraordinary number of documents he was able to attain through Freedom of Information Act requests. Cable after cable of decryptions, scores of military messages that America was intercepting, clearly showed that Japanese ships were preparing for war and heading straight for Hawaii. Stinnett, an author, journalist, and World War II veteran, spent sixteen years delving into the National Archives. He poured over more than 200,000 documents, and conducted dozens of interviews. This meticulous research led Stinnet to a firmly held conclusion: FDR knew.

“Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars,” was Roosevelt’s famous campaign statement of 1940. He wasn’t being ingenuous. FDR’s military and State Department leaders were agreeing that a victorious Nazi Germany would threaten the national security of the United States. In White House meetings the strong feeling was that America needed a call to action. This is not what the public wanted, though. Eighty to ninety percent of the American people wanted nothing to do with Europe’s war. So, according to Stinnett, Roosevelt provoked Japan to attack us, let it happen at Pearl Harbor, and thus galvanized the country to war......

So the majority of our populace was against our entry into WWII. Good thing our masters knew better and were so selfishly able to sacrifice themselves for the good of the country.

But I guess that is not a reputable site or author so back to the comforting lies.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


" Japan's most secure navel (sic) code, JN-25, was no more than 10% broken on December 7th, 1941. |


So you have Heard . Are you Privy to Historical Classified Intelligence Information concerning U.S. Intelligence gathering of Japan Prior to 1941 ? I Doubt it , most who have access to that Information are Long Dead by Now .......

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
Are you Privy to Historical Classified Intelligence Information concerning U.S. Intelligence gathering concerning Japan Prior to 1941 ?

No, and neither are you so the published material is what is being referenced and the fact that even at Midway, to determine if that was the actual target, an unsecure message was sent out from there so the Japanese could inadvertently give us the information that Midway was indeed the intended target. Which they wouldn't have had to do if the code were in fact broken.

But you stick with your made up history, it obviously makes you feel better believing conspiracy nonsense.

a reply to: ClovenSky

The thing is, almost all conspiracies have already been discussed ad nauseum, from every conceivable angle and point of view.

Multiple threads already exist on this, and every other conspiracy.

I have no problem with starting new threads on these subjects, as you dont normally get good participation on a thread from years ago, but there just really isn't anything that hasn't already been discussed about JFK, the moon landings, whether Jesus was a real person, etc.

Find some new info about a conspiracy, and I'm in.

a reply to: ClovenSky

From the Article ...

Now, though, according to Robert Stinnett, author of Simon & Schuster’s Day Of Deceit, we have the proof. Stinnett’s book is dedicated to Congressman John Moss, the author of America’s Freedom of Information Act. According to Stinnett, the answers to the mysteries of Pearl Harbor can be found in the extraordinary number of documents he was able to attain through Freedom of Information Act requests. Cable after cable of decryptions, scores of military messages that America was intercepting, clearly showed that Japanese ships were preparing for war and heading straight for Hawaii. Stinnett, an author, journalist, and World War II veteran, spent sixteen years delving into the National Archives. He poured over more than 200,000 documents, and conducted dozens of interviews. This meticulous research led Stinnet to a firmly held conclusion: FDR knew.



Sometimes a " Terrible Truth " is Better Off Unsaid ,,,,,,