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November jobs report more winning

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posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Problem is apparently republicans would never do that because they seem to never care about worker's rights.

Ugh we seriously need to kick both parties in the head.

I think they would because it fixes immigration which is a bigger problem for them. Neither party cares about worker's rights, and this would not be about worker's rights for Republicans, it would just have that as a side effect.




posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: strongfp


What's your point? Notice the difference between how Obama handled the downfall and how Trump is? I bet you can't with your dissonance towards the subject.


Obama was handed an economy that Democratic policies caused and managed to take a 18-21 month recession and make it last 8 years while telling everyone that America was in a permanent decline and he was just there to manage the decline.

Trump took the same and here we are.

So yes, there is a HUGE difference between how Obama and Trump handled the economy.



The US is in longest period of continued growth recorded, the majority of which was under Obama.

Not sure how that is making a recession last 8 years.

Trump so far has kept the economy going well but it is very much built on trends that started long before he became president.




Did you type that with a straight face?

Just.... LOL

So what policies did Democrats enact that started this amazing growth?

Or do you just mean that enough people fell off of unemployment and started getting food stamps that the unemployment numbers went down under Obama?

Because Obama added 13 million people to the food stamps roster.

The number of people in poverty rose 6 million under Obama.

But yea... this is Obama's economy we are seeing now.

/facepalm


Obama inherited the worst economic downturn since the great depression.

He passed on an economy with ( at the time) the second longest period of economic growth recorded.

I dont think Obama did a great job on the economy But the idea that there has been a major economic turnaround under Trump is simply false.




There is always a big recovery after recessions. Obama's recovery is the worst in US history. Dead last worst.

The right measure and comparison for Obama’s record is not to compare the recovery to the recession, but to compare Obama’s recovery with other recoveries from other recessions since the Great Depression. By that measure, what is clear is that Obamanomics has produced the worst recovery from a recession since the Great Depression, worse than what every other President who has faced a recession has achieved since the Great Depression.

www.forbes.com...


First of all its an article from 2013 so hardly representative of the economy Trump inherited .

Secondly it's defining it as the worst post-war recovery since took longer to recover to pre recession levels. Since it was the worst recession since the war that is an almost completely meaningless way of judging the recovery.

The article is an opinion piece by a right wing think tank so is trying to make a political point, not an economic one.

Again Obama's handling of the economy was far from perfect, but the economy that was handed over to Trump was doing well under every major economic metric. So far those trends have continued or even improved, but the idea of a miraculous economic turnaround is a myth.

All you did is cover your ears. Tell me what recession recoveries did worse than Obama's. I got more wage growth in 2 years under Trump than I did in 8 years under Obama. We have quarterly meetings where we discuss things such as future raises, so it was not something in the works which just happened to take place once Trump was elected. As soon as Trump was elected the increases started coming faster and bigger.

Obama inherited a terrible economy (which Democrats created by ignoring the housing crisis), and he did a terrible job at turning it around. Obama prevented the economic recovery we should have had, slowed it down, and created the biggest racial divide in this country in my lifetime. Basically everything the left has accused Trump of doing, Obama actually did (you know, like threaten and punish whistleblowers, abusing his powers to go after journalists who were critical of him).

The fact is everyone should be happy at what Trump is doing for the economy, but TDS won't let them.


I answered the point made in the linked article. Of course it took longer to recover to pre recession levels as the recession was more severe.

Your personal experiences while important to you aren't really valid economic indicators. The second biggest wage increae I ever got was immediately after the last recession. That doesn't really indicate the economy was doing well.

Bush was in power for 8 years prior to the recession. Fairly or not the buck stops there.

The Obama recovery was slow however it was also sustained so by 2016 Trump inherited a economy in very good shape.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Actually it wasn't. You can't just say things and hope they are true. When compared to previous recessions this is the worst recovery. It's a fact.

My personal experience is not relevant, what is relevant is that the bottom 40% wage earners are seeing most of the economic increase, again, fact.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

Actually it wasn't. You can't just say things and hope they are true. When compared to previous recessions this is the worst recovery. It's a fact.

My personal experience is not relevant, what is relevant is that the bottom 40% wage earners are seeing most of the economic increase, again, fact.


Actually what wasn't. Are claiming the US isn't in the longest period of growth recorded?

You are the one that brought up your personal experience as evidence.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: pexx421

The only party that has any interest in fixing immigration are Republicans. The fact you think I am partisan is hilarious, I have never voted for a Republican in my life and despise them, they are simply the lesser evil currently. If people got behind Republican efforts to fix immigration they could influence how it was fixed. Too many people do not want it fixed, they like loose immigration that allows illegals to flood our borders.

Remove birthright citizenship for illegals. Find the jobs that actually do benefit from immigrants (rather than use immigrants to depress wages), and get some programs for legal immigrants to work (without citizenship or birthright citizenship for their kids). Give them actual protections and go after employers who abuse them. That's a start.


Good enough occam, I take you at your word. Sadly, i expect any actual policies the republicans claim to support, so far as handling the immigration issue, are just straw men, intentionally put forth to fail, just to garner the support of voters, just like Obama’s dangled public option carrot.

But I largely agree your solutions are the common logical ones. If we absolutely went after the businesses who hire illegals it would all end in an instant. But for obvious reasons, that’s one thing that democrats and republicans will absolutely never do. Or even give lip service to. Because the fact of the matter is that they are, 99%, the fake smiling face of the wealthy elite. And the ones who do? They get media blackouts and smear campaigns.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

I don't trust Republicans to fix it either, that's why we the people, if we actually united, would need to demand those changes. The Republican base would support it 100%, and I think in the end it would get passed. Neither party will fix anything while we are divided, and the Democrats have zero interest and don't even pay lip service to the idea.

Personally I want both parties gone.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

Actually it wasn't. You can't just say things and hope they are true. When compared to previous recessions this is the worst recovery. It's a fact.

My personal experience is not relevant, what is relevant is that the bottom 40% wage earners are seeing most of the economic increase, again, fact.


Actually what wasn't. Are claiming the US isn't in the longest period of growth recorded?

You are the one that brought up your personal experience as evidence.


Don’t know that we can call this “growth”. Unless you mean growth in debt, fraud, exploitation, poverty. How many people were middle class in 07 compared to now?

And total compensation as share of gdp has continued to shrink, which when coupled with the increase in costs of benefits means that less wages are being paid overall, still, compared to prior to the collapse. How can we have a recovery that lasts over a decade and still hasn’t reached pre crash levels? And won’t reach those levels before the next crash?

Get your stuff in order, as when the next crash happens, the massive majority of corporations with huge debt overhang will be clamoring for a bailout, and it will once again be coming from us, our stocks and our pensions and our public services. Oh, and our wages naturally.

And the # of it is this. If we chose instead to bailout home owners and student debt, then that money would go directly to the banks, giving them liquidity, and would provide American consumers each with instant disposable income of 1-3k a month per household, and provide a huge and prosperous market for those corporations goods and services, in effect bailing them out as well. Bailouts directed to the people bail everyone out, from the businesses, to the banks, etc. and is what we should have done last time. It likely would cost close to the same (estimated at 17 trillion vs the bailouts 14 trillion) but would leave the economy functional and liquid, with its ability to pay debts on all levels, rather than crippled as the last one did.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Hey, I’m with you. And I expect that the vast majority of democratic voters would support those as well, regardless what the loonies in the media say. Both parties do need to go, and they’re doing a pretty good job of killing themselves. If only the media didn’t keep what I expect is the vast and reasonable majority opinions from getting any air time.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

Actually it wasn't. You can't just say things and hope they are true. When compared to previous recessions this is the worst recovery. It's a fact.

My personal experience is not relevant, what is relevant is that the bottom 40% wage earners are seeing most of the economic increase, again, fact.


Actually what wasn't. Are claiming the US isn't in the longest period of growth recorded?

You are the one that brought up your personal experience as evidence.

I shared my personal experience then sourced the national experience which mimics my own. You simply ignored the factual data and acted like all I did was give my own opinion. Just because the data doesn't support you doesn't mean you can ignore the figures.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

Actually it wasn't. You can't just say things and hope they are true. When compared to previous recessions this is the worst recovery. It's a fact.

My personal experience is not relevant, what is relevant is that the bottom 40% wage earners are seeing most of the economic increase, again, fact.


Actually what wasn't. Are claiming the US isn't in the longest period of growth recorded?

You are the one that brought up your personal experience as evidence.

I shared my personal experience then sourced the national experience which mimics my own. You simply ignored the factual data and acted like all I did was give my own opinion. Just because the data doesn't support you doesn't mean you can ignore the figures.


What factual data am I ignoring? I made no statement at all about who had largest wage increase.

I said trump inherited a strong economy. He did.

The one ignoring facts are those claiming a major economic turnaround.



edit on 7-12-2019 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

He didn't. He inherited an economy that had gone through recovery and then stagnated. Are you claiming wage growth in Obama's last year was strong?

2015 48,098.63
2016 48,642.15 +543
2017 50,321.89 +1679
2018 52,145.80 +1823

www.ssa.gov...

See a difference between Obama's last year and when Trump took over?



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

He didn't. He inherited an economy that had gone through recovery and then stagnated. Are you claiming wage growth in Obama's last year was strong?

2015 48,098.63
2016 48,642.15 +543
2017 50,321.89 +1679
2018 52,145.80 +1823

www.ssa.gov...

See a difference between Obama's last year and when Trump took over?


That index shows an increase every year since 2010.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

He didn't. He inherited an economy that had gone through recovery and then stagnated. Are you claiming wage growth in Obama's last year was strong?

2015 48,098.63
2016 48,642.15 +543
2017 50,321.89 +1679
2018 52,145.80 +1823

www.ssa.gov...

See a difference between Obama's last year and when Trump took over?


That index shows an increase every year since 2010.

Yes, I don't think anyone said we did not go through a recovery. What was said was the recovery took a lot longer than it should have and by the end of his presidency the economy was weak and stagnant with almost no wage increases. Most of those increases during his presidency went to the top earners as well as only the rich got the benefits of the recovery.

Now what we have under Trump is BIGGER economic increases than during the recovery (which is a time when we should see bigger increases), and the increases are mostly going to those at the bottom, not the top.
edit on 7-12-2019 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ScepticScot

He didn't. He inherited an economy that had gone through recovery and then stagnated. Are you claiming wage growth in Obama's last year was strong?

2015 48,098.63
2016 48,642.15 +543
2017 50,321.89 +1679
2018 52,145.80 +1823

www.ssa.gov...

See a difference between Obama's last year and when Trump took over?


That index shows an increase every year since 2010.

Yes, I don't think anyone said we did not go through a recovery. What was said was the recovery took a lot longer than it should have and by the end of his presidency the economy was weak and stagnant with almost no wage increases. Most of those increases during his presidency went to the top earners as well as only the rich got the benefits of the recovery.

Now what we have under Trump is BIGGER economic increases than during the recovery (which is a time when we should see bigger increases), and the increases are mostly going to those at the bottom, not the top.


Youmight want to read the posts I was originally replying to.

What I have stated continually is that Trump has carried on from an economy he inherited from Obama.

You can find measures that look better, you can also find measures that look worse.

The point being that he so far a good economic record, not an economic miracle.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

And as I point out, it’s only considered an “economic miracle” until it crashes and the people realize it was made of a house of cards, that eventually winds up wiping out the savings and stability of the working class, and allowing the mega corporations to further consolidate their wealth and power.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot


What I have stated continually is that Trump has carried on from an economy he inherited from Obama.


And which direction did it go ?



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: ScepticScot


What I have stated continually is that Trump has carried on from an economy he inherited from Obama.


And which direction did it go ?



Same direction It was going.



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

When you start at rock bottom in 2008 it has to go up .


Or we’d all be saying “brother can you spare a dime “.

I’ve been thinking about doing a thread on the real reason for Obama economic growth.

It didn’t happen for the reasons people believe .

Give me a couple days if I can’t pull it off .

I’ll come back and reply to this post .

edit on 7-12-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 03:09 PM
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Dbl
edit on 7-12-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2019 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: ScepticScot

When you start at rock bottom in 2008 it has to go up .


Or we’d all be saying “brother can you spare a dime “.

I’ve been thinking about doing a thread on the real reason for Obama economic growth.

It didn’t happen for the reasons people believe .

Give me a couple days if I can’t pull it off .

I’ll come back and reply to this post .


I will look forward to the thread. I enjoy ones on economics.




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