I'll just say, I'm for capitol punishment.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Plotus

I'm also for Capitol punishment, all 535 need to be punished.

And suddenly.

I used to be pro death penalty....but I have seen too many innocent people sent to jail only to be exonerated decades later.

I agree with the death penalty in the cases where there is absolutely no doubt what so ever that the person did what they were accused of, like the Boston Marathon bomber.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Life without possibility of parole in a harsh environment is a death sentence and too be honest, for some it would be worse than death.

Depends on the person. I read an article on about a gay man that said prison was like a non-stop party for him.

I'm opposed to the death penalty for one reason and only one reason. The possibility the person has been wrongly convicted and is innocent.

I do think there have been way too many cases where people are jailed for 10/20 even 30+ years and then are found innocent due to dna or some other evidence. crazy.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Yeah I would have extreme satisfaction knowing a cold blooded killer is no longer breathing.
I also believe that fact would make other criminals think twice about committing murder.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Does that not go for rehabilitation as well? If somesone gets out and proceeds to kill someone, then that death was too many to allow rehabilitation to be a viable option?

Here's an interesting paradox on the same thought...

I know a guy whom I used to work with back in the 80's. He was the son of a partner of my Dad. He was kind of a wild child in his spare time. He got into a bad work accident (fell through a roof of a grocery store onto the concrete below) and wound up crippled for life. Got into drugs. One night in a jealous rage he put a .300 Weatherby magnum bullet through the hand of his girlfriend while allegedly attempting to "scare her". He went down on an Attempted Murder charge for that, and did about 5 years in the pen. I figured this would get his attention.

Fast forward about 28 years, and I happened to be headed back to my old town and thought I might look him up. Didn't have his address so I did the usual search. First search result was how he went down on big possession and intent to distribute meth bust about 7 years ago and got sent up to the big house for 180 months (15 years) before he'd be eligible for parole. His first stint in prison must not have been enough to get his attention. But here's the thing...

He's going to get out in about 8 years. He's about 58 now, so he'll be getting out of prison at 66. He'll be retirement age, with no money (lost all his assets to forfeiture laws and the IRS), no retirement, no job and no place to go. Nobody is going to want to hire a crippled 66 year old guy with a serious rap sheet and at least two serious felonies (those are the ones I'm aware of anyway). Plus, both his dad and mom passed away while he was inside. Tough spot to be in, and I'm pretty confident there will be an attitude to go with that.

Now, I'm not advocating for capital punishment in this case, but I point it out to illustrate some of the futility of long prison sentences. This guy did the crime, so he should do the time...no argument there. But when the bureau of prisons gets done with him, they're just going to hand him his personal belongings and show him the front door. From that point he's on his own, they're done with him. I don't think this will end well. Talk about high probability for a repeat offense; there's almost no other alternative! This guy isn't homeless shelter material either, he'd get the boot on day one.

So what do you do?

I know some may read this and think I'm arguing against myself, but I'm really not. I honestly try to understand all sides of a situation before forming an opinion. My capital punishment opinions still stand, but there are others in "the system" which don't fit that mold and the system isn't really accomplishing anything at the end of the day. This guy is just one example.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Even if the person is institutionalized to the point they like it behind bars, they no longer pose a threat.

Personally I'm opposed to any jail time for non-violent crime, but for those who are dangerous I think there are ways to make it no so comfortable. Imagine a lifetime in a single lock up with no TV, no radio, nothing to read and zero diversions. Just sitting there year after year with nothing to do. I'd actually chose death over that.

I suppose there is another option. Let them chose between death or a lifetime alone in a small room with nothing to do.

a reply to: Blaine91555

While we are on the topic, I also think every prison cell in the USA should have a noose secured to the ceiling affording any inmate who wishes to do so the luxury of removing themselves from their sentence.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Here's an interesting paradox on the same thought...

I know a guy whom I used to work with back in the 80's. He was the son of a partner of my Dad. He was kind of a wild child in his spare time. He got into a bad work accident (fell through a roof of a grocery store onto the concrete below) and wound up crippled for life. Got into drugs. One night in a jealous rage he put a .300 Weatherby magnum bullet through the hand of his girlfriend while allegedly attempting to "scare her". He went down on an Attempted Murder charge for that, and did about 5 years in the pen. I figured this would get his attention.

Fast forward about 28 years, and I happened to be headed back to my old town and thought I might look him up. Didn't have his address so I did the usual search. First search result was how he went down on big possession and intent to distribute meth bust about 7 years ago and got sent up to the big house for 180 months (15 years) before he'd be eligible for parole. His first stint in prison must not have been enough to get his attention. But here's the thing...

He's going to get out in about 8 years. He's about 58 now, so he'll be getting out of prison at 66. He'll be retirement age, with no money (lost all his assets to forfeiture laws and the IRS), no retirement, no job and no place to go. Nobody is going to want to hire a crippled 66 year old guy with a serious rap sheet and at least two serious felonies (those are the ones I'm aware of anyway). Plus, both his dad and mom passed away while he was inside. Tough spot to be in, and I'm pretty confident there will be an attitude to go with that.

Now, I'm not advocating for capital punishment in this case, but I point it out to illustrate some of the futility of long prison sentences. This guy did the crime, so he should do the time...no argument there. But when the bureau of prisons gets done with him, they're just going to hand him his personal belongings and show him the front door. From that point he's on his own, they're done with him. I don't think this will end well. Talk about high probability for a repeat offense; there's almost no other alternative! This guy isn't homeless shelter material either, he'd get the boot on day one.

So what do you do?

I know some may read this and think I'm arguing against myself, but I'm really not. I honestly try to understand all sides of a situation before forming an opinion. My capital punishment opinions still stand, but there are others in "the system" which don't fit that mold and the system isn't really accomplishing anything at the end of the day. This guy is just one example.

I dont believe in those long sentences. I do believe in second chances but at some point you have to chalk up some folks as being a lost cause.

The system traps people even if they want to do better. You get a felony on record and then no one will hire you. All you can do is go back to doing crime.

I believe prison needs a strong rehab and training component. However, we also need to be tough on people too.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I am against killing humans in general. I realize it is unpopular here, but the fact remains only barbarians should be killing other people. Not Planned Parenthood, not the Government, not society. The only scenario where killing is justified (in my opinion) is self-defense.

Plus some innocent will always die where they could wait for evidence that may prove innocence.

It costs a lot of money to execute someone.

No evidence it curbs crime.

It's an easy way out for those who have done the worst crimes.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Personally I'm opposed to any jail time for non-violent crime

I agree too many people are locked up for silly things that police used to just pat a kid on the back and tell them to keep their nose clean. Those days are long gone.

As for the non-violent crime...There are way way too many exceptions. There are too many crimes that are non-violent but have devastating effects on others.
A person that steals old folks retirement, People that neglect kids. What about the factory business owner that knew rats were pooping in the peanut butter but did nothing? Some people died because of that. That was not a violent crime, but he truly deserved to be jailed.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Well, the problem there is, after a period of time they'd break down mentally and that's not really reversible. You can only have someone in a sensory deprivation environment for so long before they have a psychological break down. That's not a choice (for the inmate) it will just happen.

I like the choice part.

I think you also need to make the distinction between county, state and federal facilities.

One of my ideas is a staggered approach. For example, you get two years in a county facility, but also part of the sentence is any infraction (gang affiliation, etc.) will get you a longer sentence in a State facility. Any infraction at the State level and you get a longer sentence in a federal facility. This would all be mapped out ahead of time during the sentencing phase so the prisoner knows what's at stake. Then maybe, there's a "strike" rule at the federal level.

Something like this might also help curb the gang initiation issue in detention facilities.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Plotus

Capital punishment doesn't deter crime.

But I will agree that some people don't deserve to be breathing.

Agree'd

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

So at the end of the day, the only real reason anyone could possibly support the death penalty, is because of pure spite... and spite is not a form of justice in a civilized society.

Or you could call it justice for the victim whose life has been cut short

and their families.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Blaine91555

Personally I'm opposed to any jail time for non-violent crime

I agree too many people are locked up for silly things that police used to just pat a kid on the back and tell them to keep their nose clean. Those days are long gone.

As for the non-violent crime...There are way way too many exceptions. There are too many crimes that are non-violent but have devastating effects on others.
A person that steals old folks retirement, People that neglect kids. What about the factory business owner that knew rats were pooping in the peanut butter but did nothing? Some people died because of that. That was not a violent crime, but he truly deserved to be jailed.

Problem is legal profession has abandoned all common sense. We get a system that is focused on procedure, bureaucracy, technicalities etc instead of right and wrong.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Conceptually, that's not an altogether bad idea. Maybe not a noose, but some opt-out policy where you can go to the front of the juice line.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Hell yea Blaine. You got some good ideas there.

We spend way too much on incarceration, mainly non violent and victimless crimes.

And we just turn people into someone who needs the system. Slapping drug charges on someone just makes it impossible to get a good job after.

As for death penalty... Dead on about the innocent inevitably getting caught in the crossfire (double pun intended).

That and the idea any government gets to morally decide who deserves to live (aside from war, whole other subject) is laughable.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Blaine91555

While we are on the topic, I also think every prison cell in the USA should have a noose secured to the ceiling affording any inmate who wishes to do so the luxury of removing themselves from their sentence.

As harsh as that sounds, I'm not all that opposed to that idea. After the conviction though, not before a trial.

I don't know; I'm not really too worried about wrongful convictions. The percentages of this are so low you could really put them in the 'accident' category. Nobody deserves to die in a car accident or get hit by a bus, but it happens.

I think if you look at the statistics you'll find wrongful capital punishment convictions are overwhelmingly in the minority.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
But it's not an accident, also easy to say if it's not you or yours.

Would you be ok if you or yours was put to death wrongly..you gonna say oh well, it doesn't bother me.