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Why raising taxes to stop bad behaviors is a bad idea

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posted on Nov, 30 2019 @ 11:05 PM
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In this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The topic came up about how it would be a good thing to raise taxes on bad behaviors, like smoking or drinking sodas. It's something Bloomberg is all for.

And here is why it is wrong.

*ahem*

Say a state wants to raise taxes on smoking. Now everyone knows that smoking is horrible. Sure, it makes me look cool and stops me from screaming at strangers, but it is bad for you.

So the state raises taxes to "stop" people from smoking and to pay for all the horrible things smoking does.

Say the state raises 1 million dollars that first year.

Now fast-forward 3 years.

The "stop smoking" campaign worked. People are quitting since it costs so much with the taxes.

Problem solved, right?

Wrong.

That 1 million is no longer available to the state. The state has a budget shortfall now because they anticipated that 1 million.

Does the state spend 1 million less now?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. . . . no.

They find something else to tax. Maybe it's cabbage because farts are way too stinky.

Or booze because booze is bad, amirite?

They (the state, the federal government) will just find something else to tax instead of spending less.


So before anyone starts cheering a raise on taxes on something you don't like, be careful, because it'll cause a raise in taxes on something you eventually do like.

Class over.

Dismissed.





posted on Nov, 30 2019 @ 11:23 PM
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I concur 100%. If the tax is no longer generated from the said tax, another will have to be created to compensate for the shortage. If that one fails another then another will have to be created. Meanwhile, the state makes no attempt to balance their budget from the loss of revenue. Oh, and the revenue never goes to the intended target such as teacher pay raises, schools or roads.

This is why I never understand why people vote for more taxes. I rolled my eyes in my last state election. They voted for almost every single one of the new taxes. That revenue will go into a bottomless pit. It will have zero impact on anything until they balance the budget and designate the increased revenue to specific targets.

Bottomline; People are stupid. Who gives money to someone heavily in debt. Nobody does that on a personal level so why do it for the government.



posted on Nov, 30 2019 @ 11:34 PM
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a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Don't even get me started on the wasteful spending already going on with our tax dollars!



posted on Nov, 30 2019 @ 11:37 PM
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Anyone who votes for more taxes when their state is already in the red is an idiot. I have nothing else to add.



posted on Nov, 30 2019 @ 11:42 PM
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It is the kind of thing that David Icke was eluding to in many of his talks. Create the problem and then have a "solution" to offer once the SHTF.

Bad Idea. Put the money we already pay, towards fixing the bad behavior and solve it for good.



posted on Nov, 30 2019 @ 11:48 PM
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The mob loves when states raise taxes.. It opens up their black market .... Bwing in a state that has legal pot there is still a black market pot biz as they can sell it cheaper...a reply to: DBCowboy



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:00 AM
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So what I'm gathering here is that we need to raise taxes on those who want to raise taxes.



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:02 AM
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originally posted by: sooth
So what I'm gathering here is that we need to raise taxes on those who want to raise taxes.


We need to raise a very fine boot up their asses if they want to continue to lie and take even more money than they already do from us.




posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:06 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
In this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The topic came up about how it would be a good thing to raise taxes on bad behaviors, like smoking or drinking sodas. It's something Bloomberg is all for.



Then taxes should be decreased for every transgression against the constitution that the Legislative branch commits. Decreasing taxes for congressional bad behaviour seems a great way to curb such behaviour.
edit on 12/1/2019 by EternalSolace because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Higher taxes = more money to mismanage.

I seriously doubt any tax payer in their right mind would want to pay more taxes than we already do.



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:18 AM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: DBCowboy
In this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The topic came up about how it would be a good thing to raise taxes on bad behaviors, like smoking or drinking sodas. It's something Bloomberg is all for.



Then taxes should be decreased for every transgression against the constitution that the Legislative branch commits. Decreasing taxes for congressional bad behaviour seems a great way to curb such behaviour.


How about for every tax they create we must remove two existing taxes until we are down to corporare tax only?



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:21 AM
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originally posted by: drewlander

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: DBCowboy
In this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The topic came up about how it would be a good thing to raise taxes on bad behaviors, like smoking or drinking sodas. It's something Bloomberg is all for.




Then taxes should be decreased for every transgression against the constitution that the Legislative branch commits. Decreasing taxes for congressional bad behaviour seems a great way to curb such behaviour.


How about for every tax they create we must remove two existing taxes until we are down to corporare tax only?



Possibly not corporate tax. But government tax. Let them pay for the intrusions they cause.



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 12:46 AM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: drewlander

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: DBCowboy
In this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The topic came up about how it would be a good thing to raise taxes on bad behaviors, like smoking or drinking sodas. It's something Bloomberg is all for.




Then taxes should be decreased for every transgression against the constitution that the Legislative branch commits. Decreasing taxes for congressional bad behaviour seems a great way to curb such behaviour.


How about for every tax they create we must remove two existing taxes until we are down to corporare tax only?



Possibly not corporate tax. But government tax. Let them pay for the intrusions they cause.




Goverment doesn't make money, it spends tax payer money.

How do you get them pay for their mistakes other than using more tax money ?
edit on 1-12-2019 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 01:42 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

When will they start taxing people who have 12 kids who have no shoes and steal your bike?

Bloody twitter...



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 02:54 AM
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Well, I mean, it depends. Smoking is extremely addictive so it generally is going to take a lot more to make someone who already has the habit to want to give it up than a tax. Unless the tax is so insanely high that it makes the smoking habit compete with paying the mortgage. At which point a real tobacco addict might literally end up in the same situation as a heroine addict. Because quitting smoking can literally be that hard. Taking a hardline with addicts is generally a bad idea because you have to increase the penalty until it's more than just a minor annoyance. And at that point, you're risking pushing someone over the edge. Which is a stupid thing to do if you don't have to.

I quit smoking twice (the second time for good) and I know how hard it is. I also know that people who are generally anti-authoritarian do not take kindly to being forced into things so it's really counterproductive. Smoking always had a little bit of a rebel tinge to it so it's reasonable to conclude someone who smokes (especially now that it's very not PC) might have a lot of that going on.

Anyway, mild peer pressure is generally more persuasive than overt bludgeoning. Smokers are not stupid. They know it's bad for them.
edit on 1-12-2019 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy




They find something else to tax. Maybe it's cabbage because farts are way too stinky.


Yep cause farts are bad for the planet.

So tax,tax,tax,tax.

Then they move on to something else.

So tax,tax,tax.



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 06:43 AM
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See this is where you simpletons shine. You have no regard for everything these cursed taxes provide for you and everybody else. No big picture and zero understanding of the challenges involved when trying to run a country.

A government always spends more than it collects in taxes. Because the main goal is to provide for the people what they need, whatever that may be(determined in the political area). In the US for instance, the government spends a lot of money on defense. Is that because they have lots of money from taxes lying around? No, quite opposite in fact. Is it necessary for the safety of the us citizen to spend that amount? Who knows, that's debatable. You'd think the world is a very unsafe place when looking at US defense spending.

Ofcourse there are other elements to the spending behaviour of a government, but if they do not provide for the well being of their people it will be a short run operation. So thats why most governments spend most of their taxes on providing healthcare, infrastructure and education. For the people, you know, so they have a good foundation to make something of their lives and maybe do some good along the way.
Who knows, I must be daydreaming again
edit on 1-12-2019 by Jubei42 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-12-2019 by Jubei42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 06:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
In this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The topic came up about how it would be a good thing to raise taxes on bad behaviors, like smoking or drinking sodas. It's something Bloomberg is all for.

And here is why it is wrong.

*ahem*

Say a state wants to raise taxes on smoking. Now everyone knows that smoking is horrible. Sure, it makes me look cool and stops me from screaming at strangers, but it is bad for you.

So the state raises taxes to "stop" people from smoking and to pay for all the horrible things smoking does.

Say the state raises 1 million dollars that first year.

Now fast-forward 3 years.

The "stop smoking" campaign worked. People are quitting since it costs so much with the taxes.

Problem solved, right?

Wrong.

That 1 million is no longer available to the state. The state has a budget shortfall now because they anticipated that 1 million.

Does the state spend 1 million less now?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. . . . no.

They find something else to tax. Maybe it's cabbage because farts are way too stinky.

Or booze because booze is bad, amirite?

They (the state, the federal government) will just find something else to tax instead of spending less.


So before anyone starts cheering a raise on taxes on something you don't like, be careful, because it'll cause a raise in taxes on something you eventually do like.

Class over.

Dismissed.


The solution to this is to use them money raised by that tax in a way that is related to the problem. For example using tax on smoking for anti smoking campaigns. Therefore as the problem decreases so does the tax, but that doesn't matter as the tax won't be needed any more. It 's self solving.



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 07:06 AM
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Raising taxes to stop bad behavior is a bad idea. Raising taxes on the behavior in which the taxes go directly towards covering the costs on society created by said behavior is not. But yes a blanket tax, for the purpose of preventing people from doing it is stupid on all fronts.

If say there were universal health care, and unhealthy life choices were taxed, and that tax went directly towards covering health care and no where else. I personally not only think that tax is appropriate, but quite necessary. Why should the rest of society need to pay more to cover your bad life choices?

Heck, I'd go even further and allow for people who can show evidence of making extra healthy life choices getting a tax reduction. For example, logged hours at the gym. It would need to be something that can be proven though.
edit on 12/1/2019 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2019 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I've gone over and over this one here.
Perhaps you remember, and you're 100% right.

Sin taxes don't work for exactly that reason. The new monies are never in closed loop systems, so the shrinking revenues always need to be made up elsewhere.

You also forgot to mention thriving black market trade on sin taxed items too. Cigarette black market trade is a thriving thing in places with the worst tobacco tax. Thw black man who was choked and died in New York and became part of the police violence craze? He was selling black market cigs.



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