BREEAKING- London Bridge sealed off after reports of gunfire

originally posted by: angelchemuel Clearly demonstrates that tagging doesn't work as well, he kept to the 'rules' since his release.....

Makes one wonder if the Yanks have got it right sticki ng them on that bit of Cuba hard to spell, Guantanomo or something. At least when theyre off the mainland out of sight out of mind. Plenty of parts of tehScottish Islands that could house them. Stick neo Nazis there too, all the radicals, tagging proving too risky

a reply to: andy06shake

Unfortunately my friend a hugely disproportionate number of those 'crazy murdering bastards' are Muslim extremists.

a reply to: Freeborn

Well Freeborn im more feart of politics and austerity than I am terrorists or Muslims for that matter.

Good and bad people in all walks of life.

a reply to: andy06shake

I agree that our self-serving careerist politicians and the thoroughly outdated and unfit for purpose party political system they seek to maintain at all costs poses a real and dangerous threat to the everyday, ordinary people of this country and their quality of life.......but that does not lessen the threat and barbarity of these pieces of # who need rooting out and eradicating without compassion.

ETA

Good and bad people in all walks of life.

Even politics?

originally posted by: andy06shake
Muslims are not the problem.

It's crazy murdering bastards that's the issue.

No, ignorance of the fact that islam - not 'radical islam', islam - is the radical religion of a bunch of crazy murdering bastards (and bitches, let's not be sexist shall we?)...

a reply to: tanstaafl

Yes, Christianity and all other organized religious practices are all about the love as history clearly illustrates. LoL

If your going to be racist you may as well be sexist as well i suppose.

a reply to: Freeborn

In the beginning, i imagine a right good few would-be politician's intentions are pure enough.

But the system claims them as they climb the ladder.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely after all.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Yes, Christianity and all other organized religious practices are all about the love as history clearly illustrates. LoL

There is not even the resemblence of a comparison between Christianity and islam.

If your going to be racist you may as well be sexist as well i suppose.

Racist? Sexist?

Islam is not a race, you know.

I am not racist, but I am anti-radical-extremist-murdering-thugs.

LoL

a reply to: tanstaafl

Islamophobia is the fear and hatred or prejudice against the Islamic religion or Muslims, generally when seen as a geopolitical force or the source of terrorism.

Let's just say Islamophobia and racism are partially overlapping phenomena.

But its semantics, and you know that.

"Im not a racist, but"

Slippery slope there pal.

As to murdering thugs, think we could all be doing with less of those around, radical extremist or otherwise.

a reply to: andy06shake

How do we define Fear of Islam.

For over 1300 years Islam has been murdering, raping, kidnapping and enslaving as well as stealing land and entire nations from Christians, Hindu's, Buddhists and God only know's who else.

Prejudice against Islam.

To be ANY other religion is to be prejudiced against Islam, to believe the Teachings of ANY other religion is to be Prejudiced against Islam, to Speak what you believe if you are of another faith or to try to convert someone from Islam because your religions tell's you to do so is to be Prejudiced against Islam.

So face it Islam is NOT COMPATIBLE with western or for that matter EASTERN values, it is a militant violent religion that preaches beheading NON Islamic people that refuse to convert to Islam and while more moderate interpretations of that religion exist that is actually it's original and TRUE nature not the moderate version believe it or not.

I am personally against persecuting any minority and am a Christian by faith myself so of course I fundamentally disagree with and can not accept Islam no matter what a bunch of headless chicken like shirt lifting bent priests might try to tell me, they obviously have not read the part of the new testament that say's YES I should tolerate other's I am not to ASSOCIATE with them or eat with them or drink with them anything they bless in the name of there version of God which is a strange (Wrong and therefore blasphemous) God to my God.

To Accept Islam has only ONE outcome, from the very moment you ACCEPT it you accept the ANTI christian beliefs of those that wish you to accept it - why Anti Christian well because the two faith's can not co exist.

You may call me a liar there and claim I am wrong and point out examples of Co-existence BUT bare with me.
Moderate Islam is not ORIGINAL Islam, it is a far nicer and more peaceful version of Islam than the original one and it is actually the inevitable outcome of a society inherited believers whom have not converted but have been born into it and don't really believe in the same way as a fundamentalist convert does.

Syria, home of one of the oldest, perhaps THE oldest Christian church in the world the Syriac Orthodoxy, once the entire nation was Christian, an ancient king of Syria adopted it as his state religion before Constantine did for the Roman empire and it remained independent of Byzantium as a separate church but remained also very similar - so similar in fact that while some TRUE syriac still exist half of there church joined the Catholic church since there beliefs were identical.

So what happened to turn a Christian nation into a Islamic one.

Religious tax, Persecution, Trade Restrictions on Christian's and other method's including periodic mass murders and enslavement's have been a constant part of life for the Syriac Christians over the past 1300 years or so, this culminated in there numbers shrinking as the Islamic believers AND converts of convenience increased.

More recently in Turkey the Turk's massacred over two, perhaps more than three million Armenian Christian's, raping, impaling on spikes and even crucifying some of the young Christian Armenian Woman and girl's and Men and boy's though most died of starvation and dehydration being driven from there homes by Turkish mob's.

You can not tame this particular beast and make it nice and presentable because some misguided - and perhaps evil intention-ed secularist want's to white wash the blood from this particular goats wool.

So it is either Prejudice against Islam or PREJUDICE AGAINST CHRIST, that is the stark choice you have to make, if the government's of this world force you to accept Islam then know they are not and never were Government for Christ.

Turn the other cheek YES but do not cast your pearl before swine.

I am not saying Harm people for there belief's, persecute them or deny them right's or opportunity's but what I am saying is FAIR IS FAIR and the truth is that it is a dominant religion that seeks to dominate by any mean's it can and will in time do so unless we put into place and MAINTAIN strict regulations to limit it - which is itself inherently prejudicial against it BUT it can NOT coexist with other religions in it's un-watered down form, moderates CAN yes but are they true Islamic or are they a different religion entirely to the one that spread by rape, murder and conquest?.

I disagree that prejudice against a religion is a grey area with racism, racism is inherently evil and against both Christianity, Judaism and Islam, if someone shares my belief they are part of my family, to be racist against them because of there skin Colour is to deny my brother or sister there right to the same place as I have when as a Christian they are also part of the body of Christ.

My wish is that Islamic people can come to Christ and repent of there false religion since My religion tell's me that is what there religion is, I do not want them to die but from my religious perspective that is what they already are doing by following that path.

But I accept my Lord said his own will come unto him (by that I do wonder how many currently in Islam will be called by Christ and how many that think they are Christian's will be left behind? and at that I wonder at myself since I am far from perfect but then I remember doubt is sent to test us and yes WHOEVER believes in him will be saved - And he is a merciful God after all so just maybe he will save many of them after all, he did not spill his blood so the devil could steal them from him).

a reply to: LABTECH767

And yet i ken plenty of Muslims who follow Islam that are perfectly good people.

Went to school with them and grew up in the same place as them.

They are just people mate.

As to Islam murdering, raping, kidnapping and enslaving for over 1300 years.

What do you imagine Christianity has been up to in all that time?

Who has the most monies and wields control and sway over nations, the Vatican or radical Islam?

I don't accept anything your lord has to say on the matter any more than Allah, and let's face it that's not fecking much, from any side.

The only person or thing coming to save us, is us im afraid.

a reply to: andy06shake

The difference is those Christians whom did the same were NOT acting as Christian's and Christianity does not condone that behaviour and yet Islam DOES condone that behaviour.

Also as you know if you have been following the news down in Essex a car deliberately mounted the pavement and ran over a group of kid's, one 12 year old boy has died so far and other's including a young woman are in serious conditions, previously just a short time a car mounted the pavement near to another nearby school and just missed the kid's.

Two guesses as two why a guy driving a car would deliberately try to mow down groups of kid's as they leave school, either he is mentally ill or it is an act of terror, it is too early to say which it was as we have no information on this guy as yet but the police have arrested a 51 year old man in connection with the incident.

Over in France they managed to stop this.
www.breitbart.com...

So you want to tell me how lovely they are you go right ahead, My sister Jeanette is Married to one JAVOD EZZATVER a former Revolutionary Guard from Iran whom got here on a bogus Libyan Passport as a student, we found out he and my sister were involved in a serious fraud against our mother and against us - with the help of some corrupt people in West Lancashire social services (it is a financial fraud and those corrupt staff benefited from it) - BUT that is not why I am biased, Javod has or had in his possession a photograph from the Iran/Iraq war were he is grinning broadly while holding a large bloody knife in one hand and the head of an Iraqi soldier in the other with two of his mates beside him (I still love my nieces and nephews but once that thing get's a hold on them - but hey I secretly baptized them not that they were old enough to know that).

So come on again tell me more about these lovely people that I whom have them in my family don't know, there are good and there are bad but once they get religion they tend to be very bad and why - because it is a bad religion that is why and no it is not a religion of peace unless they mean the peace of the grave.

a reply to: LABTECH767

51 year old white english bloke.........

Not called Mohammed or Iftikhar......

a reply to: LABTECH767

51 year old white english bloke.........

Not called Mohammed or Iftikhar......

a reply to: Flavian

Fair enough then he's a head case.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I don't need to tell you anything your opinion is already preconceived.

I will simply reiterate that people are people.

Its organized religious practice in all its many guises that's of concern.

To assume only Islam is the problem or "Bad" as you put its sheer hypocrisy.

History is what it is im afraid.

a reply to: andy06shake

What a pile of cow pat, having to be a bit PC and not say what I really mean there ha.

Islam founded by a guy who was a SALESMAN look it up he worked for a merchant's widow as a young man and handled what in today's terms we would call the import export side of thing's for her business of which he was just an employee.

This let him learn about religions, practices and traditions as well as languages of several different cultures and this was a necessity for him to become a decent trader, he later married the widow whom was in her much, much older.

Showed a dislike for strong woman probably after finally getting his way and taking over the business of which he had formerly just been an employee, got exiled from Mecca (which is not were Mecca is today - there was no CITY there at the time of Muhammad's Mecca and was founded after a civil war among his followers some time after his death but his city was probably Petra and there are a number of pieces of evidence to back that up including a different alignment to the very earliest Mosques which are aligned not toward Saudi Arabia's Mecca but toward Jordan's Petra - also the descriptions for Mecca in the Koran do not match Mecca in Saudi Arabia but they DO match Petra), after being exiled he became a bandit, due to his silver tongue (think a very good Dixon's salesman - remember when you would walk into the shop and they would come over and try to sell you things you did not want because they were on commission) he was able to gain a following of illiterate bandit's, due to his knowledge of the Caravan routes and probably also some contacts that may have passed him information he was then able to make his followers rich by raiding those trade caravan's, soon he had more bandit followers than most of those nations had soldiers and was able to pass himself off as a prophet, not to the Jewish elders though as he tried to claim that he was the messiah but they refused to accept him and that particular tribe of Jewish people was then raided by his army, the men and married woman were murdered and the virgin's and female children given to his followers to do what they wanted with them as slaves.

There was a young woman by the name of Um Kirfa (she had not done anything to wrong Muhammad but he was scared of her power as it was the only real threat his growing army might face) the widow of the chief of the Kuffiri tribe (Kuffer is an insult that many Muslims use to refer to us but in fact I find it honorable knowing it's true meaning) a powerful tribe whom had more than fifty swords given to her by the leaders of other tribes as a sign of allegiance and possible as suitor's, she being such a powerful woman scared Muhammad with his hatred of woman so he and his men sneaked into her camp by night and hid under the sand by day, when they were close enough and any help was far enough away they attacked her guards and captured her and her little daughter, Muhammad's men raped her and tied her four limb's to camel's then whipped the camels to tear her apart, While Muhammad was feasting in her tent they then brought the young widow's head in as a trophy for him.
Muhammad then gave her little child daughter to his uncle for his pleasure (I do not know if this was his blood uncle or the uncle of one of his wives?).

Muhammad's last wife was a girl by the name of Aisha, today many Muhammadans try to claim she was older than the original and oldest versions of there Sura's (there version of gospels' written after Muhammad death by men whom knew him) which say she was six years of age, her hair fell out on the wedding night and so Muhammad due to the purity laws of his people which said a bald woman was unclean (and which were probably not meant to refer to the head but to protect children) he could then not touch her (again) until her hair grew back which was when she was nine.

Not too long before he died in his fifty's of illness Muhammad was recorded as showing great interest in one of his other followers daughters whom had not yet learned to walk and said he would marry her in a few year's, luckily for her he died before he could.

On one occasion he promised his followers that the woman of the Persians (Renowned for there beauty at that time - and he did not like Persians for some reason probably better merchants than he ever was or something) would lie on there back's with there leg's spread for his men to RAPE for there pleasure.

On another occasion when Mecca (probably Petra) surrendered to him (and he entered then sought out the men whom had banished him and murdered them with a spear) he broke his own teaching about this Allah dude he had invented (or re-used) and told his followers that they could worship the pagan idols in the Kaaba (probably a temple in Petra not the Kaaba in Saudi Arabia) and that they were the high flying cranes that would carry there prayers to heaven), this confused his followers and he realizing that he was perhaps about to be unmasked went back on his word but for many century's the passage in the oldest version of the Sura's that relayed this confused the Islamic believers so they interpreted it to mean that Muhammad had at that time been entered by the Devil whom had possessed him, now how could he be a prophet of God if the devil was allowed to enter him - Michael protected the corpse of Moshe (Moses) so that Satan could not use it in that way (According to story the devil tried to claim the body of Moses but Michael would not let him have it) AND Judas after A devil entered (or had show itself within him) into him was no longer an apostle but named devil by Christ himself whom had always known that he would betray him.

There religion was written over half a millennium AFTER the event's of the Crucifixion and there prophet was a pagan whom had taken what he wanted from Judaism and Christianity yet they deny that Christ was crucified just like modern pagan's do.

Sorry there is NO comparison - the substance of the two religions is utterly different.

There however may be a valid comparison between those that do not believe but use religion to control, to inspire and to rile up people for there own power, bad men in other words.

Christ came to set you free.

Islam allows' and even set's prices for everything from camels to SLAVES.

And one final thing, you may not accept it but Christianity is also the Truth, the WAY and the LIFE and the RESURRECTION, the only way, in fact it was first called simply THE WAY and Christians were and are FOLLOWERS OF THE WAY.

a reply to: LABTECH767

That would be my thinking on your take on Muslims, that being "What a pile of cowpat".

But if its crap you are after, try the Bible, Quran or Torah.

Full of Holy mince and then some.

And they even serve as toilet paper at a push.

Your god could not save those two poor souls that got brutally murdered now could he?

Could he ""resurrect"" those poor people?

Part of his plan i guess?

The only thing you follow is a book written by Man, funnily enough just like the Muslims.

Guess that's Abrahamic religion for you.

I would suggest you open your eyes, but i somehow suspect Jebus glued them shut long, long ago.

Good luck. x

originally posted by: LABTECH767
- also the descriptions for Mecca in the Koran do not match Mecca in Saudi Arabia but they DO match Petra)

What descriptions? I don't remember seeing any descriptions of Mecca in the Koran.

a reply to: ArMaP

Like any good conspiracy there are arguments on both sides but it would appear that at the time of Muhammad's early life the current city called Mecca was NOT a city, it was a place that was a kind of neutral ground that may have had a small settlement and a pagan temple that the Saudi desert tribes probably treated as a kind of hallowed place were they did not war with one another.




Proponents of Mecca will argue against the misalignment of early mosques that all point to another location as the center of there faith, most of those mosques were LATER rebuilt or re-oriented to face toward Mecca though so there argument is based on a tradition rather than evidence.

Petra home of the Nabataean's was the heart of a great trade network that traded far and wide and had grown fabulously wealthy from it's trade.
www.quranite.com...

Muhammads Mecca was the home of traders and he himself had been a trader, it was rich and important, at the time of his life Mecca in Saudi was NOT these though it is on the frankincense trade route.
apologika.blogspot.com...


Not that it matters to me other than perhaps showing them they are wrong and turning them to Christ but likely it would simply make them revise there own history a bit and the descendants of the Nabataean's may then end up becoming very rich indeed as the first flock's of revisionist pilgrim's flocked to there ruined city.