What is a "Rich Slave"?

a reply to: ketsuko

School texts have changed quite a bit since I was in school. While we didn't delve into such details (as you say, it is an extremely complex subject requiring individual study), there were mentions of the various different aspects of slavery. My children had no such mentions even in their textbooks.

I consider that a disservice to the memory of those who suffered under slavery.

Some of my personal study came from family history. While precious few of my family (and none of my ancestors) ever owned slaves, the subject was discussed in old letters that have survived the years. Particularly interesting was one from family members who immigrated to Texas. They wrote back home and described an epidemic that had wiped out a large percentage of the family. The letter went on for several pages describing who had died, who had become ill, and then which of the slaves had died and become ill. The part that caught my eye was how they described turning the main house into a sick room for the sick slaves, where they could receive care as well as the family members who had gotten sick.

One particular slave, a housemaid, was bemoaned quite a lot; it seemed her passing had upset the children, as she had been their nanny. The lamentations over her were even greater than some of the white family members.

Other letters from others tell of the uglier side of slavery: the torture and the anguish those poor people lived. One house near me survived the war and has remained in its original condition to this day. There are (well, were in my younger days; I assume they are still intact) slave galleys under the porch, with the shackles still hanging on the walls and reddish stains marking the spilling of blood.

As you say, it was a complex subject that demands more attention from history IMO. Lest we forget.

TheRedneck

a reply to: operation mindcrime

Well...you kind of did....in the OP

Fair enough; I should have been clearer. They cannot receive reward that they own. There is no ownership of personal property for a slave, any more than a cow can own a collar around its neck. A slave can use such things, but cannot own them. They can be taken away at the whim of the owner.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I read that article, and I know what he was trying to say. He just did it in a very poor way.

Regardless of his poor message my guess is that
100% of people would rather be a rich slave than a poor slave.

I think most people have accepted reality and realize, yea we need to work. We need to pay bills.
It's a lot easier to do that when there are jobs, well paying jobs!

This guys is a loser and his name bites.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DBCowboy

No, Obama did not make you a slave. What Obama did was make it harder for us to survive and thrive. In other words, he made it harder to not rise above being peasants.

I'll call you out for the same thing I have called others out for: do not minimize the horrors of slavery by watering down the term. Slavery should never again exist in a developed country... it should not exist anywhere for that matter, but we have already allowed that by our minimization thus far.

TheRedneck

Fair enough.

But I have to ask, what is the threshold between peasantry and slavery?

How many rights must we lose before we become slaves?

And yet, theres probably been some slaves through history who lived far better than most of us are. I mean would you rather have been a Duke or a serf? Both were in service to the king with their fate at the kings mercy.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I would say full central planning and public ownership of everything would definitely put us there.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I read that article, and I know what he was trying to say. He just did it in a very poor way.

I can agree with that.

I also thought the name was silly.

TheRedneck

a reply to: DBCowboy

Obama took away your citizenship and made you a subject of the US.

That bothers me greatly, because it indicates to me that he somehow sees himself as inferior.

Your wrong.

Strip everything away and he sees himself as a black guy, that is all.

Where I get concerned is that Mr. McKelvey, in his zeal to thwart what appears from polling data to be a shift of black voters away from the DNC and toward Trump, is passing up a chance to help his culture, his people, his listeners, and instead instruct them in dangerous rhetoric.

He's helping himself and his DNC handlers, that's it. He offers no help in the areas you talk about. I'm sure he has the obligatory "philanthropic arm" of his accounting but that's as far as it goes.

He's a democratic shill, no different than the group of folks that listen to Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern.

a reply to: DBCowboy

But I have to ask, what is the threshold between peasantry and slavery?

I'm gonna say a pair of holey socks to having no socks.

That's my metric anyway.

a reply to: DBCowboy

what is the threshold between peasantry and slavery?

Self-determination.

A peasant lives on their own, under broad restrictions set by the land owner. They can own personal possessions. They can move freely (more or less). A slave is housed and rigidly controlled by his owner. He has no freedom of movement, no personal possessions, and no self-determination at all. I suppose one could see serfdom as a sort of "slavery-lite," but that negates my argument and minimizes the horror of slavery.

When we are required by law to live where our owners say we must live, do what they say we must do, eat what they say we must eat, all under the threat of legally-sanctioned violence, and can be punished without any due process... then we are slaves.

(Not the Political Mud Pit, so I will leave it at that.)

TheRedneck

a reply to: dawnstar

And yet, theres probably been some slaves through history who lived far better than most of us are. I mean would you rather have been a Duke or a serf? Both were in service to the king with their fate at the kings mercy.

And neither were slaves.

Your basic point is likely valid, though. A generous, wealthy slave owner typically gave his slaves a better life than a miserly employer, but at what cost? The dehumanization that was so common among slaves is quite the price to pay for a little convenience. In that respect, Mr. McKelsey was absolutely correct; his characterization was what I spoke out about.

His base message is admirable.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: operation mindcrime

You're picking nits there.

You are absolutely right...

Or rather I found a loophole to get out from under this discussion...lol

I always enjoy a good discussion with Redneck because of his manners and decorum but I coulďn't bring myself to pushing this discussion any further...

Peace

a reply to: cenpuppie

Your wrong.

Strip everything away and he sees himself as a black guy, that is all.

"Financial freedom is definitely our only hope. But we also have to remember that we’re black at the end of the day."

I took that as an admission of inability. I would be happy if I took it differently than it was intended, but all I can do is state my impression of the wording. The duty of correct transmission lies with the sender, not the receiver.

I demonstrated that above to another poster when I admitted not being clear enough on a point.

TheRedneck

a reply to: operation mindcrime

You are absolutely right...

Or rather I found a loophole to get out from under this discussion...lol

Good comeback! A little levity is a good thing sometimes.



TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yea and i'm telling you that he sees himself, "just as a black guy". No different than you seeing yourself as a white redneck.

Chill dude, this is nothing to get concerned over. Charlamange ain't no teacher and black folks don't listen to him outside of The Breakfast Club, which is tuned into for entertainment purposes.

a reply to: cenpuppie

He wasn't referring to himself alone, though... he said "we are black," not "I am just another black man." I would probably have taken that differently, similar to what you suggest. Now, maybe I am being nit-picky on that, but it how I interpreted his words. I doubt I am alone in that interpretation.

As I have said, I hope I am wrong. No one should self-depreciate themselves; all have reason to be proud of who they are (or at least should have incentive to change if that is not true). I am not really "worked up" over the statement of one man who I had never heard of before this, but rather I am using it as an example to point out a larger issue. That larger issue is demonstrated starting on page 1 of this thread: the very concept of slavery is being watered down to include just not having everything one wants without lifting a finger for it. That larger issue is a serious issue. Slavery is wrong, not just something to be accepted and avoided if possible.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: cenpuppie

Your wrong.

Strip everything away and he sees himself as a black guy, that is all.

"Financial freedom is definitely our only hope. But we also have to remember that we’re black at the end of the day."

I took that as an admission of inability. I would be happy if I took it differently than it was intended, but all I can do is state my impression of the wording. The duty of correct transmission lies with the sender, not the receiver.

I demonstrated that above to another poster when I admitted not being clear enough on a point.

TheRedneck

What he is saying is that no matter how much money you have, you are still black.... meaning some people will still be racist to you. This is something that unfortunately is ingrained into black folks because we are still not that far removed from overt racism, regardless of our education, class status, and financial wealth. As Malcolm X quipped, "What do you call a black man with a Ph.D? A n*gger"

Every black person has experienced this at some point in their lives. You are treated as if you don't belong or someone questions why you are there...

With that said, this subtle racism while hurtful, hardly is something holds anyone back.

a reply to: Edumakated

Every black person has experienced this at some point in their lives. You are treated as if you don't belong or someone questions why you are there...

I really wish we could all switch bodies/thoughts for a week or so.
I think there would be a lot more peace in the world.

What black folks may not realize is that almost everyone has this feeling of not belonging.

a reply to: JAGStorm

More gain an understanding of why others are reacting the way they do.

Someone who dresses and acts with class tends to treated better than someone regardless of race. There are ways to do that almost irrespective of financial status. You can dress cleanly and presentably out of Walmart or the Goodwill. You can behave with decency and dignity even if you shelter under an overpass.

Those two things will buy you better treatment from others just on their own merits.