AOC says her policies are not 'free stuff': 'I never want to hear that term again'

a reply to: pexx421

Yeah. We are in debt. Where does that debt come from? It comes from businesses writing legislation in board rooms that call for their products, then using lobbyists and bribery to get that legislation through Congress.

The largest creation of debt comes from Social security, and medicare that account for 2/3's of current federal annual spending.

Because those so called payroll taxes Don't cover the benefits received.

Spin me another lie.

a reply to: pexx421

No money to the college in doing things efficiently.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: pexx421

Money isn't a solution. Just like guns don't murder people.

Money lies there until you do something with it; it's that action that may or may not be the solution. The cash is only the enabler.

Much like the gun only lays there until someone picks it up with intent. The tool enables but has no action in and of itself.

We spend more money on education than any other developed nation and are realizing diminishing returns and yet you think more money fixes that?! No. It doesn't and hasn't so far because money isn't a solution.

You’re the one that brought up education. And you’re an ideologue, who has no clue what you’re talking about and can’t recognize any good ideas from an opposing team.

a reply to: pexx421

So yes, we have a corruption problem that needs to be dealt with. And we also have an exploitative capitalist system with insurance, pharma, banking, etc that needs to be dealt with.

I won't argue here, I often rail on the same types of things.

I don't trust a politician telling me they're going to offer more government programs without addressing debt any more than a politician in bed with the MIC. Lately, I haven't voted for a presidential candidate unless I agree with their foreign policy, because I know we can't focus on domestic until we tackle that.

I'll vote for someone's domestic platform when they can convince me they will reduce spending while increasing results. I haven't been sold on that by anyone yet though.

Bernie's plan to make corporations pay their fair share is half way there, but then he goes on to how it's going to fund new programs. How about we pay off our debt first, and then do new programs? How about while we're doing that, we make our current programs more efficient?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: pexx421

No money to the college in doing things efficiently.

I agree ketsu, for once. And it extrapolates to our whole society. Everyone wants their cut, and they’ll invent requirements to take it.

a reply to: neo96

She's right in that it's not free. Someone, namely you and I, are going to have to pay for it.

Tax for you. Tax for me. Taxes for everyone. They'll even tax the "free stuff". Y'know, rob Peter to pay Paul.

$2.2 Trillion



www.usdebtclock.org...

a reply to: pexx421

Tell me a good idea. You had one in streamlining degrees, but currently there is no pressure on colleges to do that. And there will be less if government pays for all of it. Government has no incentive to ever streamline or make things more efficient. After all, if they need more money, they just tax it or borrow it. That is the pressure a profit motive does provide. You can only finance what others will pay for.

Government, via student loans, has been paying for everything for too long. Colleges have had a blank check to write their programs and pad them.

Of course, some things trade school could do easier than a traditional college ... like EMT training.

a reply to: pexx421

Teachers get paid similar or more to teach at these schools. So that comment is a fail.

So you want them to have free time and do whatever they want and not have to take a standardized test and somehow that will make them feel HS is worthwhile to go to.

Medics are not RN's. If you think you can learn everything in nursing school in 9 months you are hilariously wrong. So stupidly wrong it's not even funny. Me and my wife are both nurses, I scored top 3 percent of the country on the tests, I did a 16 month accelerated program where you needed 2+ years of credits done to even apply. Those 16 months of non stop learning doesn't even get you to the point you can work without killing people, it gets you to the point you know enough to spend 3-6 months under someone else and not kill someone because they are watching.

Your statement is just ... wow.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: pexx421

Teachers get paid similar or more to teach at these schools. So that comment is a fail.

So you want them to have free time and do whatever they want and not have to take a standardized test and somehow that will make them feel HS is worthwhile to go to.

Medics are not RN's. If you think you can learn everything in nursing school in 9 months you are hilariously wrong. So stupidly wrong it's not even funny. Me and my wife are both nurses, I scored top 3 percent of the country on the tests, I did a 16 month accelerated program where you needed 2+ years of credits done to even apply. Those 16 months of non stop learning doesn't even get you to the point you can work without killing people, it gets you to the point you know enough to spend 3-6 months under someone else and not kill someone because they are watching.

Your statement is just ... wow.

Teachers get paid more to teach at what schools? Not sure what you are comparing them to here. If you’re comparing them to European schools, well yeah. But they also don’t have to pay healthcare or education costs. So subtract 1200 a month (healthcare costs BEFORE co pays and non covered costs) and then another $300 a month (a below average student loan of 30k) and see how teachers pay compares then.

As to rn’s. You’re not going to use any of your microbio, history, physics, etc on the daily. Your job is largely divvying out the exact dosages the dr tells you to, and physical patient care. Fact 1) military medics can and do work as nurses in state hospitals and va’s. Fact 2) I was working in hospitals in 06-07 when it was found out that many of the rn’s we had been working with, valued members of their teams, had NEVER GONE TO SCHOOL. Nobody knew, we couldn’t tell them from the trained rn’s. There were thousands of them all over the country.

Not to downplay your job. But as a cna in 2002 I was doing Iv’s, giving meds, splinting, inserting foleys, etc. It’s not that complicated.

a reply to: neo96

I blame the goddamned lazy, entitled, stupid asses who voted for her. She is but a product of half of America's retardation, nothing more, nothing less.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well, if they got out and voted for her that makes them less lazy than the majority of Americans. At any rate, much as I didn’t want to like her, she’s voted better than and pushed better legislations than the majority of congress that I’ve noted. What groundbreaking and beneficial legislation has Cruz, Paul, Rubio, or Ryan pushed recently?

a reply to: pexx421

You don't need physics. You will use your micro, you will use your history. Your assessment of what the job is is completely wrong. Nurses do constant assessments and are the first ones to find problems usually. If the nurses you work with only put in IV's and put meds in a cup they sucked. It's the reason for the push away from ADN to BSM. I never once saw a medic working as an RN at the VA here. The VA basic requirement is you MUST have graduated from a school of professional nursing approved by the appropriate State-accrediting agency and accredited by one of the following accrediting bodies at the time the program was completed by the applicant.

Seriously, you just have no idea what the nurses role is, the things you listed are tasks, and are meaningless.

Now back to topic, teachers already get paid the same or MORE to work at these schools. So why do you think they only have crappy teachers because of pay?

a reply to: pexx421

Uh, Ryan is retired and Cruz, Rubio, and Paul are US Senators. All legislation which raises revenue (such as the Green New Deal) must, by law, originate within the House of Representatives.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Ha, right. I’ve only been working in hospitals twenty years. I’ve worked in almost all the ancillary positions, from medic to surgical tech to cna to psyche tech, ortho, internal med, and now I’m in imaging. I have a very clear understanding of what almost all patient care positions in the hospital entail. I’ve done everything you do, from the intakes and histories to giving meds, orally, iv and Im, to inserting chest tubes, intubations, and suturing people up. Mental health to geriatrics to peds. I’ve personally performed cpr a hundred or so people. You don’t have to inflate what your job entails. Nobody is saying it’s not a real job. You work, we know that. And it’s hard work. But the vast majority of what you learn in school is stuff you will never use. And, like most jobs, the vast majority of the stuff you DO use you learn on the job.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Uh, Ryan is retired and Cruz, Rubio, and Paul are US Senators. All legislation which raises revenue (such as the Green New Deal) must, by law, originate within the House of Representatives.

Ah. My bad. Any good legislation, that truly helps the people from your Republican heroes lately? Anything that both sides could get behind, that you really get excited about?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: pexx421

You don't need physics. You will use your micro, you will use your history. Your assessment of what the job is is completely wrong. Nurses do constant assessments and are the first ones to find problems usually. If the nurses you work with only put in IV's and put meds in a cup they sucked. It's the reason for the push away from ADN to BSM. I never once saw a medic working as an RN at the VA here. The VA basic requirement is you MUST have graduated from a school of professional nursing approved by the appropriate State-accrediting agency and accredited by one of the following accrediting bodies at the time the program was completed by the applicant.

Seriously, you just have no idea what the nurses role is, the things you listed are tasks, and are meaningless.

Now back to topic, teachers already get paid the same or MORE to work at these schools. So why do you think they only have crappy teachers because of pay?

And again, what schools? “ Teachers get paid the same or more to work at these schools”. I don’t understand. Which schools? Compared to what? Which groups are you comparing to which other groups? At any rate, teachers work more than 12 hours a day during the school year. And they have summer obligations as well. So that about 9 months of the year, they work what for a normal person would be massive overtime. My wife was a teacher, and she was working from 7am to normally 10-11 at night. That’s 15-16 hours a day, AND she normally spent 5-10 hours on the weekends working as well. I did the math on another thread here recently, and if another person was putting in the same hours in the same amount of time with overtime and such, at my wife’s then salary of 52k a year, it was about $12 an hour.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: pexx421

Uh, Ryan is retired and Cruz, Rubio, and Paul are US Senators. All legislation which raises revenue (such as the Green New Deal) must, by law, originate within the House of Representatives.

Ah. My bad. Any good legislation, that truly helps the people from your Republican heroes lately? Anything that both sides could get behind, that you really get excited about?

The tax cut they passed by themselves has been a Godsend. Let's be frank, though, Congress hasn't done jack squat of importance or value since January 2019.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well, I’m glad the tax cut helped you. But let’s be honest. The vast majority of the cut was a wealth grab by the corporations that was spent on stock buybacks which used to be illegal as it’s the same family as insider trading and market manipulation.

But yeah, Congress hasn’t done much of #....probably since 2000. Or more. I haven’t seen them make any real reforms that have helped the people, they certainly haven’t given us anymore freedoms, and they have done little to protect the ones we do have. Wage wars, bailout banks, handouts to pharma and ins. Seems they really only excel at funneling money to the oligarchs.

a reply to: pexx421

What schools? Are you replying without even knowing what the topic is? If you don't know what the schools are how can you say they don't pay teachers well enough?