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AOC says her policies are not 'free stuff': 'I never want to hear that term again'

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posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: neo96

I hate to say it, but she's right.

None of this stuff is free, it's all going to be paid with by taxes on the middle classes.


Maybe they should try improving the return on what we're already paying for before trying to sell us on paying more.

Unfortunately for some, they equate increasing federal spending to better return to citizens.... Really it just equates to more bloated federal spending waste.


This //// I'll be glad to give more once we know the system isn't inefficient as well as corrupt. A good legislative startby restructuring the IRS and working towards a simpler taxing system for instance. Every government agency is bloated and inefficient and is designed to stay that way.


Not to mention, until we address debt, any spending has to be viewed as putting on a credit card (at least in my mind).

So every time they say we're rolling out ______ initiative, with extra spending... All I can think about is added federal spending, added debt and interest, for more sub par results.

I've used this example many times, but the only way I'd be for "free" college is as follows.

-State funded schools have to stop spending money on frivolous things like making the nicest campus. Focus on education and provide a good degree at a fair price. If you don't want to do that, go private and stop taking tax dollars.

-Kids who qualify have to go into a degree program (or trade) that the market has a demand for. They do 2 years at a community college before going to Uni.

-Spoiler alert, nothing in life is free. Afterwards you can choose to pay back the reasonable rates this program has driven down, or do 2 years for a low paying intern in the public sector.

That's not bulletproof, and it's far from perfect. But it's an example of how we can achieve goals while not increasing spending. Education is one that I'm actually passionate about, because I truly see that as investing in our most important asset of the country, it's future. We're not going to win the battle on low skill labor jobs, so better we at least become the best in other areas.




posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:30 AM
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Nobody that supports these social projects that will provide things like health or education to the populace have ever considered them to be "free stuff."

That's a strawman created by the Right.

We know that in the grand scheme of things these will cause an increase in taxes. At the same time though we also know that the increase for healthcare will be less than what we're already paying for insurance. While a healthier, more educated, workforce will lead to a stronger economy.

So yes, AOC is right in saying the Right should stop referring to these social programs as "free stuff," because it illustrates an ignorance towards the issues.

Should we stop referring to the DOD's budget as defense spending and instead refer to it as "really expensive stuff that has no effect on your life?"



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254




Nobody that supports these social projects that will provide things like health or education to the populace have ever considered them to be "free stuff."

That's a strawman created by the Right.


Nope it's a strawman created by the AOC's.

Because property taxes pay for that snip, and lotteries.

A dumbass(Cortez) is trying to conflate that with federal spending which means robbing everyone from flyover country to pay for HER DISTRICT.


edit on 27-11-2019 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Most people who pitch it you make the big selling point that you never have to pay out of pocket which is free stuff. Most people are also calculating that those tax increases won't hit them when they say what you said about taxes, even you. Obamacare proved the lie to that.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

I understand there is more nuance than either side will fully acknowledge.

Like if we get some kids to get a degree that otherwise wouldn't have had the access to, they'll naturally make more and pay more in taxes. It will also be a long term investment on the overall economy of the US. But if it's at prices that are already here now, and they go to Uni for all four years, that could easily be 60,000+ a pop conservatively. Add on health provided by the state, are they paying surplus taxes?

I'm all for improving these programs so long as we're in the black on the books.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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Public education, libraries, & infrastructurepolicies (which we‘ve had before in America and elsewhere in the world!) are not 'free stuff,'" she tweeted.


Property taxes.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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Someone has to pay .

Her new slogan



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: neo96

You mean her District that is right in line with the country's Median Household Income?

I wonder how many of those "flyover" districts are paying less taxes than New York's 14th. Considering most of the money is on the coasts, I'm sure most of them would see an even larger benefit from AOC's plan.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

I am only going to say this once.

Public education,libraries,infrastructure are LOCAL and STATE issues.

If you don't live there.

YOU shouldn't be forced to pay for something you're never going to use.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: neo96

I don't entirely disagree with you.

But at the same time you're essentially arguing for the Articles of Confederation. A system our Founding Fathers found to be a complete failure.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

The problem with education can never be fixed in the current political climate. It is racist right now to say part of the reason blacks don't graduate HS is that they see no value in it, and they choose not to. If you are not allowed to have that thought, you can't address it. You can't fix something by just throwing more money at it.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: CriticalStinker

The problem with education can never be fixed in the current political climate. It is racist right now to say part of the reason blacks don't graduate HS is that they see no value in it, and they choose not to. If you are not allowed to have that thought, you can't address it. You can't fix something by just throwing more money at it.


Not just blacks, but more a certain class of poor person in this country. They do happen to be predominately black demographically, but there are individuals of other groups involved too. I am thinking of trailer trash, for example. It's popular to boil the argument down to just an issue of blacks so you can dismiss it with racism, like it's popular to boil illegal immigration down to just an issue of Hispanis, even more Mexican Hispanics, to scream racism and do the same.

It's all a dodge to avoid the real issue that money isn't a solution.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Xcalibur254

I am only going to say this once.

Public education,libraries,infrastructure are LOCAL and STATE issues.

If you don't live there.

YOU shouldn't be forced to pay for something you're never going to use.


I also don’t disagree with you, and would support decentralization of many powers and budgets. However in the meantime we get to deal with the health industry exploiting us to the fullest extent.

I also see and have always seen Obamacare as a fraud and selling out the us public to the insurance agencies. Because I’m not a partisan hack, I can recognize the good and bad ideas on both sides.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: CriticalStinker

The problem with education can never be fixed in the current political climate. It is racist right now to say part of the reason blacks don't graduate HS is that they see no value in it, and they choose not to. If you are not allowed to have that thought, you can't address it. You can't fix something by just throwing more money at it.


Not just blacks, but more a certain class of poor person in this country. They do happen to be predominately black demographically, but there are individuals of other groups involved too. I am thinking of trailer trash, for example. It's popular to boil the argument down to just an issue of blacks so you can dismiss it with racism, like it's popular to boil illegal immigration down to just an issue of Hispanis, even more Mexican Hispanics, to scream racism and do the same.

It's all a dodge to avoid the real issue that money isn't a solution.


“Money isn’t a solution” is the status quo argument. It’s all about money. Always. Everything. And the attempts to make ineffective systems that purport to help people while really funneling money to a certain group accomplish two goals. It makes that certain group much more wealthy (usually bankers, or health insurance and pharma) and delegitimizes public programs at the same time. The real problem always comes down to who is working in the govt. and who they get their money from. It’s a fixable issue, but nobody is fixing it.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: pexx421


“Money isn’t a solution” is the status quo argument. It’s all about money. Always


It's only about money when it's being used as a political football. There is no doubt that many have a political agenda when talking about policy.

But for us taxpayers (I'm an independent one), it's still about money. I don't want to hear about more spending until the current spending is being put to good use.

We're in debt, a vast amount of it. We can't talk about new spending until we get a grip on our current spending. It would be like a couple who have a mortgage, tens of thousands in credit card debt, and student loan debt talk about buying a brand new car when their current one just needs to be overhauled for less.

Would I love to be able to create more opportunity for young Americans and also enrich the lives of so many who have bought into the system their whole lives? Absolutely. But I'm a realist, and I know we can't do that until we make meaningful efforts to get our house in order.

Any new spending is really just charging it to a credit card younger generations will have to deal with. I won't vote for that. I can't vote for that in good conscious.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

So if someone wants to drop out because they see no value in HS you think buying them a new book will solve the problem?



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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Just ask her, none of it is free. She’ll tell you straight up it will cost you your immortal soul...now just sign this contract and we can get on to the giving out stuff.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: pexx421


“Money isn’t a solution” is the status quo argument. It’s all about money. Always


It's only about money when it's being used as a political football. There is no doubt that many have a political agenda when talking about policy.

But for us taxpayers (I'm an independent one), it's still about money. I don't want to hear about more spending until the current spending is being put to good use.

We're in debt, a vast amount of it. We can't talk about new spending until we get a grip on our current spending. It would be like a couple who have a mortgage, tens of thousands in credit card debt, and student loan debt talk about buying a brand new car when their current one just needs to be overhauled for less.

Would I love to be able to create more opportunity for young Americans and also enrich the lives of so many who have bought into the system their whole lives? Absolutely. But I'm a realist, and I know we can't do that until we make meaningful efforts to get our house in order.

Any new spending is really just charging it to a credit card younger generations will have to deal with. I won't vote for that. I can't vote for that in good conscious.


Yeah. We are in debt. Where does that debt come from? It comes from businesses writing legislation in board rooms that call for their products, then using lobbyists and bribery to get that legislation through Congress. It’s the business sector using govt to extract money from taxpayers. It’s companies who dodge taxes and fix wages using the govt to mandate their weapons, meds, etc.

So yes, we have a corruption problem that needs to be dealt with. And we also have an exploitative capitalist system with insurance, pharma, banking, etc that needs to be dealt with.

And none of that changes the fact that a single payer system can provide much better care at much lower costs than what we currently have. That’s not a person in a bad economic decision. It’s shopping for the best product at the best price.



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: pexx421

So if someone wants to drop out because they see no value in HS you think buying them a new book will solve the problem?


Right, because money in schools is always about books. Maybe if they had better teachers that they attracted with better pay, better facilities, invested more in seeing what actually works and implementing it, rather than our current system of ideology driven education. More free time and recess, less standardized tests and homework. Make the education system more practical and realistic (especially with history classes and such!). Maybe it would draw the kids in more rather than making them overburdened myopic, obedient sheep.

Also could do the same for college. They taught us in the military everything we needed to be medics in 9 months. We did all the things nurses do and more. Don’t need 4-6 years of crap they teach in college for rn, most of which they’ll never use, for a job that largely a monkey could do.
edit on 27-11-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2019 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

Money isn't a solution. Just like guns don't murder people.

Money lies there until you do something with it; it's that action that may or may not be the solution. The cash is only the enabler.

Much like the gun only lays there until someone picks it up with intent. The tool enables but has no action in and of itself.

We spend more money on education than any other developed nation and are realizing diminishing returns and yet you think more money fixes that?! No. It doesn't and hasn't so far because money isn't a solution.



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