Girl Scouts advice on hugging during the holiday season .

a reply to: Fallingdown

Your argument seems to be contradicting itself. If you're not forcing a kid to hug another, then what's your argument here at all? Kids can hug whichever relatives they personally decide to hug and can not hug any they choose not to hug... anything beyond that is, by definition, forcing/compelling/demanding/instructing a kid to hug another human being. If we're arguing semantics here, let me know now... I'm sure I can rant a bit about the idiocy of those discussions, too.

originally posted by: Fallingdown

In the first paragraph I said “ a reminder doesn’t hurt anyone “ and it doesn’t .

It does if they are the perpetrator, and there is no reason why you would

know ......the very essence of the crime is the silence Otherwise they

wouldn't get away with it.

Kids tend to be self-absorbed and distracted about a plethora of things. That’s why we coach them on safety , rejection , drugs, alcohol, bad influences and right or wrong to name a few .
Why should coaching them on politeness be any different ?

Politeness and good manners? I'm all for them. However that doesnt

include touching of any kind that is not wished for. Children

open up when they have had time to learn to trust.

I also mentioned that I acknowledge there are deviants. So all situations should be monitored . If your child hugged someone and you felt it was inappropriate . If you didn’t speak up you shouldn’t have children .

I am interested to know how you spot a deviant? they dont quite

advertise themselves or their intentions.........they are all some

ones son, father, brother uncle, grandfather, cousin........ OR even

a woman.

Plus I highly doubt a hug would be a deciding factor to some pervert seeking to get his jollies .

*Grooming* .........small steps? slowly slowly catchee monkey?

If (and I would bet ) the Girl Scouts did instruct them on this reasoning . It might plant ideas that could screw them up for the rest of their life. Don’t hug any family friend or member they might be trying to molest you . When your a adult be leery of anyone that’s kind or generous because they’re trying to lure you into the sack . It could just as easily skew their whole outlook on social interactions.

I can garuantee it wont be *ideas* that will screw them up for life, it will

be somebody under your nose who you wouldn't believe could do something

so awful.

Hugs far outweigh the risks especially when you’re in the room .

Been there done that and unfortunately got the Tee Shirt

Sa reply to: burdman30ott6

Your argument seems to be contradicting itself. If you're not forcing a kid to hug another, then what's your argument here at all?

For some reason you seem to think I approve of dragging a 10-year-old across the room by their hair and throwing them in somebody’s arms. That’s not the case I’m talking about a reminder repeated once or twice. Which from the Girl Scouts of America article they consider violating their boundaries .....

Have you ever insisted, “Uncle just got here—go give him a big hug!” or “Auntie gave you that nice toy, go give her a kiss,” when you were worried your child might not offer affection on her own? If yes, you might want to reconsider the urge to do that in the future.

I just took groceries to my mothers house for Thanksgiving dinner . My 12-year-old granddaughter was sitting in a recliner with her nose buried in the cell phone . I had to say her name three times before she looked. When she acknowledged me I asked her the question .

“ did anybody telling you to hug someone a Christmas bother you in anyway “ she wrinkled her nose rolled her eyes and said “ of course not “. Then went back to the phone which is probably the reason I would have to remind her .

Kids can hug whichever relatives they personally decide to hug and can not hug any they choose not to hug... anything beyond that is, by definition, forcing/compelling/demanding/instructing a kid to hug another human being

Now there is a contradiction .

Outside of every relative waiting to molest the child which seems to be the fallback argument .

If your child didn’t like anything but candy. Would you tell them to eat vegetables and meat ?

She might develop a phobia to healthy by GSA standards

if your child played video games all day. Would you tell them to go outside and play ?

They might develop agoraphobia by GSA standards .

If you didn’t do either of those things you’re a bad parent. And if you did by your standard you’re harming them by forcing a position and denying them their right to decide for theirselves irreprehensible .

Children need instruction. If you have any go ask one if reminding them to hug a relative had a lasting impact ? The answer is going to be no with rare exceptions .

Children’s need instruction.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing a child the right path .

a reply to: Fallingdown

First of all, the article says "Have you ever insisted" and yet you're taking issue with anyone else in this thread setting the table as you insisting a kid hug a relative. Either you're not in disagreement with the article, or you are advocating insisting (AKA forcing) kid to hug people they don't wish to hug.

If your child didn’t like anything but candy. Would you tell them to eat vegetables and meat ?

if your child played video games all day. Would you tell them to go outside and play ?

Talk about non sequitur... Look, good parents teach their children that they have the right of privacy over their own bodies. Obviously that doesn't include eating nothing but junk food or lazing about all day... but it *should* absolutely include the right to choose who they're willing to hug, play with, hell interact with beyond throw away pleasantries. At the end of the day you absolutely are saying that you're not willing to experience awkward uncomfortableness from a relative so your kid had best swallow their druthers and take one for you... that's weak sauce.

I'm not disagreeing with you that kids need hugs. Kids need hugs from their parents, friends they choose, and relatives they seek out hugs from. Kids can be fickle, I'm not suggesting relatives they don't want to hug are bad people or anything like that, but they are adults and can be expected to handle things as adults, including being "rejected" by a child. Handle it without looking like a primadonna emo covered in flop sweat or else you begin to look like the childish one, far moreso than the child who simply identified their right to personal space and chose to not allow that space to be violated by what is, at the end of the day, a throwaway platitude.

Not sure I understand why that post was removed. But if I crossed the line I offer my apologies .

Since this conversation has turned towards children being victimized I would like to point something out .

The vast majority of child molesters groom their victims. You’re a family friend or relative who appeared to be great People. They take an interest in the child’s life and form a bond . Through gifts , Special attention , Favoritism and faux interest in their well-being . Basically the kids like them even after the abuse has begun .

That’s why those people are so hard to identify .

Most children wouldn’t hesitate to lavish affection towards the creep . You wouldn’t have to remind the child about a hug .

A sign to watch for is a break in a relationship like that . If the child becomes apprehensive in what you saw as a perfect mentor. Somethings might be up .

That wouldn’t be the case for a out-of-town relative or someone the child rarely sees .

The grooming process put the victim in a Stockholm like syndrome. Where they are reluctant to tell anyone what the molester is doing .

That’s why much of the abuse goes over an extended period .

So I will cede the point that if a child suddenly breaks off a endearment they had for someone. They shouldn’t be encouraged to hug them.

But on the other hand if that happens it’s also a good way to spot that something is up .

If then falls down to communication .

Ask why they don’t want to hug somebody they’ve been close to for quite a while .

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You’re mixing up my interpretation with yours . Do you suggest I should come only to your conclusion ?

Have you ever insisted, “Uncle just got here—go give him a big hug!” or “Auntie gave you that nice toy, go give her a kiss,” when you were worried your child might not offer affection on her own? If yes, you might want to reconsider the urge to do that in the future.

Give your uncle a hug he drove a long way, Come on , he loves you . That’s what I took from the article is insisting .

On the candy comment. Kids need assistance with their physical help why not the same with their mental health. I listed where deprivation of tactile response can harm kids in their adult life mentally .

I'm not disagreeing with you that kids need hugs. Kids need hugs from their parents, friends they choose

Again I’ll use my drag them by the hair scenario.

I never said force them to hug anybody I said remind them .

Kids are distracted, they don’t think sometimes and I would prefer if they didn’t develop a fear that everybody you don’t know is out to get you .

There are some evil people out there.

But the good people out number them greatly .

It’s obvious from my last reply on grooming. I barely skimmed your post I was in the car and assumed it was pretty much the same as the last one .

Been there done that and unfortunately got the Tee Shirt

When I addressed it again I saw that line and got a knot in my stomach .

Again I offer my deepest and sincere apologies.

I hope you except them and not hold my stupid avoidable mistake against me .

a reply to: Fallingdown

GSA: Remember folks, if your daughter gets raped, it's because you reminded her to hug her grandma!

originally posted by: Fallingdown

Kids need assistance with their physical help why not the same with their mental health. I listed where deprivation of tactile response can harm kids in their adult life mentally .

IF you are concerned about mental health....... I would far rather any child

of mine suffered from tactile deprivation from others (I can supply them with

however much they need) than carry the burden (and yes it is a burden) that

is seared into their psyche.

I know of a woman who as a 13 year old threw herself out of an upstairs window

because the molester was believed......... it turned out that he had also done

the same to two of her other sisters.


It simply is NOT as simple as you think..........I'm out!!!

a reply to: eletheia

I’d like to say three things.

First : After last night I’ve lost my appetite for this discussion .

Second : I hope you saw my apology. It was a complete blunder on my part, my fault and not excusable . No need to recognize it I mentioned it because it wasn’t quoted .



Third : A friend of mine’s daughter fell victim to a predator when she was six. He’s a police officer and called me from the hospital hysterical. The hospital was about 40 miles away and we made it in a little over an hour on country roads to comfort him and his wife .

As a police officer he’s seen a lot, but he said the way they found her hit him like a truck .

I considered her one of my daughters and still do . Me my wife and most importantly my daughters worked to help her heal .

10 years plus after the incident she’s still not entirely healed. But she’s coming to grips with the horrible incident .

I completely understand the impact sexual abuse has on a adolescent .



Again my apologies it was a stupid comment .

I didn’t sleep well last night thinking about how a my callous hasty reply must have hurt you .

a reply to: burdman30ott6

You are correct!

I have been teaching " Shoulder Hugs" in my family and extended Family for decades....once you teach the correct bend-lean technique to a young girl she knows how to avoid the boob-seeking chest crushing weird hugs....give a girl a proper respectful "shoulder hug" once and respect her for a Day....teach her how to give them herself and People will Respect her for life.

a reply to: eletheia

I mean no offense here and am not going to victim-blame, but I'm not going to sugar coat this because you need to hear it point blank -- To do this much projecting and focusing on painting others as default victims screams that you have not had proper counseling. Avoiding doing that and digging your heels in on your skewed perceptions within your own narrow scope of view (since it's being bolstered & limited by your experiences, I mean it as a guideline for you, not as an insult) versus accepting the fact that you're a representative of a very small minority of kids and not the Standard Rule is a very slippery slope to tread, and an unhealthy mentality to uphold & spread.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: eletheia

I mean no offense here and am not going to victim-blame, but I'm not going to sugar coat this because you need to hear it point blank -- To do this much projecting and focusing on painting others as default victims screams that you have not had proper counseling.

Counselling You're having a laugh it didn't exist when it happened to me.

If it never happened to you, you are in no position to tell me what it is like

If I can open parents eyes to this secret unspoken crime and save only one

child I will have succeeded.

Young as I was I couldn't tell my mother, I 'protected' her with my silence and yet I

desperately wanted her to know, her 'friend' was no friend. I told her 50 years

later when the Jimmy Saville case broke and she didn't believe 'that sort of thing'

happened. She broke down and wept ......and that was what I had been protecting

her from, my childish instinct had been right.


Unreasonably I know, It coloured our relationship, I felt she was my mother

'how did she not know'

Avoiding doing that and digging your heels in on your skewed perceptions within your own narrow scope of view (since it's being bolstered & limited by your experiences, I mean it as a guideline for you, not as an insult) versus accepting the fact that you're a representative of a very small minority of kids and not the Standard Rule is a very slippery slope to tread, and an unhealthy mentality to uphold & spread.

My perceptions are far from skewed and you have no way of knowing how many or

how few children are victims of abuse ........ Saville, Rotherham, Epstine to name

just a few, and personal knowledge a family of five girls and three (thats more than

50%) victims.

Your view of 'a very small minority'?

And thats before we consider male child abuse!!!


I would (and I have had the experience) rather be over cautious and safe rather

than sorry its something that can never be expunged.

a reply to: eletheia

That counseling exists NOW. It's up to you to use and start working toward healing, and stopping such rampant paranoia.

Until then, IMO, your opinion is too skewed (this time, in a negative manner) to give credence to. Help yourself in an office before you try to play armchair warrior to others.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: eletheia

That counseling exists NOW. It's up to you to use and start working toward healing, and stopping such rampant paranoia.

I dont need counselling or healing or your advice .

Paranoia? You're talking to the wrong person I'm no snowflake

Until then, IMO, your opinion is too skewed (this time, in a negative manner) to give credence to. Help yourself in an office before you try to play armchair warrior to others.

Your opinion is of little interest to me.

There is nothing negative in trying to save another from suffering.

With your closed mind and SJW attitude chances are it will happen to

someone not to far away from you.

a reply to: Nyiah

Seriously??? YOUR perception is skewed. It's not a small minority of children who deal with this and calling someone out for having been abused and wanting to prevent it from happening again is weak!