It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

China quietly "threatens" Austrailia

page: 6
0
<< 3  4  5   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 05:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by Murcielago
Taiwan wants to become its own country, but knows that if it declares its independence that China would probably attack.



Taiwan is an independent country and has been for over 60 years. Mainland China since Mao has been trying to overthrow "democratic" Taiwan since then.

The world and the "British" "apeased" the dragon by giving it Hong Kong. Worked out well didn't it?




posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 11:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by rapier28

Originally posted by Pyros
The Nationalist and Communist forces never "banded together".


WTF are you talking about.

Do you even know anything about Chinese History?

The Communists formed a army called the New-four army which supplented the Whole Kuomintang army. If thats not "banded together" then what is?

Chang Kai-shek was ONLY interested in attacking the Communists.
Do you even know about what changed his mind?????
If you don't know anything about chinese history, don't talk.

He changed his mind when one of his generals rebelled and took him house arrest. (he later impresoned the general under house arrest for the rest of his life)
Chang was forced to sign a treaty with Zhou Enlai.

The nationalists were not successful at all agaisnt the Japanese, thats why they conqured half the god damn country. It wasn't there fault, in a stand up fight, China did not stand a chance.

China only started winning when the 2 banded together and they started using the Guerrilla tactics of Mao


Rapier28,

This is a more definitive and correct version of the history you are inaccurately restating, as taken from answers.com

"During the Japanese invasion and occupation of Manchuria, Chiang Kai-shek, who saw the Communists as a greater threat, refused to ally with the Communists to fight against Japanese. On December 12, 1936, Kuomintang Generals Zhang Xueliang and Yang Hucheng kidnapped Chiang Kai-Shek and forced him to a truce with the Communists. The incident became known as the Xian Incident. Both parties agreed to suspend fighting and form a Second United Front to focus their energies against the Japanese.

However, the alliance was in name only. The level of actual cooperation and coordination between the CPC and KMT during the Second World War was minimal. In the midst of the Second United Front, the Communists and the Kuomintang were still vying for territorial advantage in "Free China" (i.e. those areas not occupied by the Japanese or ruled by puppet governments). The situation came to a head in late 1940 and early 1941 when there were major clashes between the Communist and KMT forces. In December 1940, Chiang Kai-shek demanded that the CPC’s New Fourth Army evacuate Anhui and Jiangsu Provinces. Under intense pressure, the New Fourth Army commanders complied, but they were ambushed by Nationalist troops and soundly defeated in January 1941. This clash, which would be known as the New Fourth Army Incident, weakened the CPC position in Central China and effectively ended any substantive cooperation between the Nationalists and the Communists and both sides concentrated on jockeying for position in the inevitable Civil War".

What you are talking about in mostly history from pre-1941, and not relevant to the Austalian based conversation (especially after taking into consideration how much the Australians were helping the Chinese versus the Japanese prior to 1941.....)

The entire history lesson (I suggest you read it) can be found here.

If you have some historical data that states that the combined forces of the Chinese communists and nationalist, working as a unified force, were responsible for defeating the Japanese in China (which never happened), I would like to see it.



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:12 PM
link   


Taiwan is an independent country and has been for over 60 years. Mainland China since Mao has been trying to overthrow "democratic" Taiwan since then.

The world and the "British" "apeased" the dragon by giving it Hong Kong. Worked out well didn't it?


Hong Kong was leased to the British.

Do you understand the word "Borrow"?

It has to be returned.

[edit on 10-3-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Mar, 10 2005 @ 07:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by Pyros
What you are talking about in mostly history from pre-1941, and not relevant to the Austalian based conversation (especially after taking into consideration how much the Australians were helping the Chinese versus the Japanese prior to 1941.....)


Why isn't it relevant?

Pre-1941 - Japan has already taken Beijing, Tianjing, Shanghai, Nanjing, Canton (Guangzhou), Wuhan. Thats pretty much all the top cities in China.

Most of the major occupations and atrocities by the Japanese committed on China were Pre-1941. It has every relevance.

Where do you think Japan was going to go if it got away with creating the "Greater Asia Sphere". If the Xian incident did not occur, Chinese would still be fighting Chinese, Japan would cut throught China like a butter knife.



If you have some historical data that states that the combined forces of the Chinese communists and nationalist, working as a unified force, were responsible for defeating the Japanese in China (which never happened), I would like to see it.


You don't need to join armies to "combine". That's just silly, i only said that the New-Four supplemented the whole Nationalist-Chinese army. I never said that they put they troops in one group.

Having said that though, i might have to concede that point still because it seems as if the Nationalists didn't really do anything.



The result of Chiang's waiting was an erosion of morale among the Guomindang. Deprived of the revenues obtained by trade and customs, the Nationalists financed the budget and lined their own pockets by printing paper money without gold or other reserves to back it up. This caused massive inflation, raising prices 250-fold between 1942 and 1944, and the wages of most workers failed to keep up. Local governors also introduced new taxes, limited only by their imagination; among these were the "contribute-straw-sandals-to-recruits" tax, a "comfort-recruits'-families" tax, and a "train-antiaircraft-cadres" tax. The Guomindang government-in-exile became so corrupt and unpopular that the local residents of Sichuan called them "downriver bandits." For this reason, the Guomindang made no effort to mobilize the peasants as the communists were doing.

The war had the opposite effect on the CCP. Not believing in enforced idleness, the communists infiltrated the Japanese-controlled areas of north China and began to organize resistance. The railway system, secured by blockhouses every few miles, was an ideal target for guerrillas on the move. Soon the Japanese only had firm control over the parts of the countryside that they happened to have troops in. In response the Imperial Army launched what it called the Three Alls campaign: Kill all, loot all, and burn all. When that began the Red Army deliberately avoided pitched battles, restricting itself to harassing the enemy. "The people are the sea," declared Zhu De's deputy, "while the guerrillas are the fish swimming in it." Meanwhile, Mao Zedong worked at winning local support by reducing rents and taxes and improving the standard of living in the areas they controlled. The result of all these actions was that Yan'an became a magnet for idealistic young people from all over the country. This swelled the ranks of the Communist Party from 40,000 in 1937 to 400,000 by 1940.


xenohistorian.faithweb.com...

If you read that further, you will see how inept Chang Kai Shek's leadership was.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 06:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by drfunk
LOL i've never heard more paranoia in one post ever
Taiwan and China is of no concern to me , and the way the whole Taiwanese situation has been brought about is the result of this.


Seem you aren't exactly a learned man on the history of Communist China. Seem that you're more interesting in rooting for Red China over a free Taiwan. As long as it doesn't bother Australia and your fondly nurtured bigotry toward the folks of Taiwan.



Originally posted by drfunkInternational politics is a dirty and complex game IMO, and the whole situation we see today is a result of that.


Of course, what's the alternative to international politics? International anarchy?


Originally posted by drfunkChina have no intention of us being subservient to them. The only country we are subservient to is the United States, which a lot of evidence is here, we're not given much of a choice not to fight.

Once again China won't invade Australia for the forseeable future, the only thing China will invade us with is cheap goods. Seriously, you gotta do better than that to convince an apathetic nation like australia.


I don't foresee any invasion of Australia by China tomorrow. Or next week. Just as long as China's professing a desire to control the sea passages throughout southeastern Asia, including the water around Australia, your country is in China's way nevertheless. Just a thought for you to dissect.



posted on Mar, 11 2005 @ 07:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by the_oleneo
I don't foresee any invasion of Australia by China tomorrow. Or next week. Just as long as China's professing a desire to control the sea passages throughout southeastern Asia, including the water around Australia, your country is in China's way nevertheless. Just a thought for you to dissect.


More paranoia.

Have a look at this strategically, China has only 1 carrier, the Varyag, and it's a themepark. Further more, China has a multitude of problems to solve before it even reaches Australia. This includes disputes with Japan over Diaoyu or Senkaku, dispute with Vietnam, Phillipines and like 5 other countries over the Southeast China sea.

Power projection is simply unfeasible for China at the moment, nor has it ever being historically practiced.

If you talk about current power projection over the seas, India has more capabilities then China. And both Navies are closer to a brown navy fleet then a blue navy fleet.

Finally, find me one shred of evidence of "China professing to control the waters around Australia."

The only ships that routinely enter our waters are American Aircraft Carriers. (There pretty cool though nonetheless, i have had my pictures taken on it, and rode on the elevator lifting the aircraft onto the deck)



new topics

top topics
 
0
<< 3  4  5   >>

log in

join