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China quietly "threatens" Austrailia

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posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Finally, I was bothered by something you said. You said "The cold, hard truth is that it is better to invest 1500 American lives now to ensure the stability of the mid-east..." Given that, why haven't you quit your job and become death #1501 in the cause you so believe in? You don't have to answer that, just think about it.


The fact is, friend, is that I have already given six years of my life to be on the front lines, defending my country. I am too old at this point to be considered eligible for active duty. I have seen plenty of tyranny in my time, and I have lost good friends to those tyrants, which could have just as easily been me.

So, now I make my living and contributions to my nation's security by performing my job as en employee of a well-respected company that provides products and services for our nation's fighting men and women.

I don't have to think about the ramifications of putting one's money where their mouth is. The honorable discharge, hanging on the wall in my office right in front of me, reminds me evey day of what I personally invested in what I believe in, and also of the sacrafices that my friends and shipmates made as well.

Unfortunately, it's always easier to "put your money where your mouth is" when what you are advocating is to sit on the sidelines and do nothing.




posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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Well I hold Australian and New Zealand citizenship and I beleive that one day China will become a direct threat to these two countries.

I say hit them now and hit them hard while we still have the chance - beleive it, they would do the same to us if they had the chance. If we continue to let them "tool up" we will live to regret it. I say go in and split that damn country up - insite a civil war or some effing thing, just don't let them continue to grow in power... we owe it to our grandchildren to do everything in our power to ensure that the Sleeping Dragon does not awake!

-smokinjoe



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Pyros
The fact is, friend, is that I have already given six years of my life to be on the front lines, defending my country. I am too old at this point to be considered eligible for active duty. I have seen plenty of tyranny in my time, and I have lost good friends to those tyrants, which could have just as easily been me.

So, now I make my living and contributions to my nation's security by performing my job as en employee of a well-respected company that provides products and services for our nation's fighting men and women.

I don't have to think about the ramifications of putting one's money where their mouth is. The honorable discharge, hanging on the wall in my office right in front of me, reminds me evey day of what I personally invested in what I believe in, and also of the sacrafices that my friends and shipmates made as well.

Unfortunately, it's always easier to "put your money where your mouth is" when what you are advocating is to sit on the sidelines and do nothing.


You didn't answer the question. Why don't you quit your job and devote the rest of your life to this cause, until the goal is achieved? Do you think six years is enough, that it's like a prison sentence, "time" more than a duty you believe in? If so, then that really doesn't entitle you to anything. If you believe what you believe, then going out and making the world safe for America should be your duty 24/7, until the goal is achieved. Otherwise, you're just the same as anybody who hasn't "done any time," like you have.

As for "too old for active duty," that's a rather poor excuse. Who says you have to serve in uniform? If you believe in your cause so much, there should be no reason for you to wait for somebody else's orders or to be a part of a unit when you can do so much just on your own. Or do you not know anything?

Remember, if you can't answer the question, don't try to.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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It's a civil war. It's not our business.


It's a shame that a person such as yourself who enjoys the liberties and opportunities that democracy provides is willing to sit back and do absolutely nothing to confront EVIL. Millions of people in Taiwan are on the verge of losing the very freedoms that you and I enjoy. The fact that any free-thinking person can sit back and say that the death of an independent, democratic nation at the hands of communism is none of their business is just sickening. Especially when that very person's homeland faced the threat of a totalitarian regime seeking to invade, murder and change their way of life. Especially when another democracy, who didn't need to protect Australia, came to your aid.

You'd be speaking Japanese and worshipping an Emperor as your God right now were it not for the moral convictions and bravery of the United States and its armed services. You're like a rape victim siding with another rapist. It's the very same appeasment that you display that has spawned some of the greatest tragedies and wars against freedom in the past century. If you were a US citizen you'd definitely be a tree-hugging, liberal democrat. Thank God you don't have a vote that counts here.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
You didn't answer the question. Why don't you quit your job and devote the rest of your life to this cause, until the goal is achieved? Do you think six years is enough, that it's like a prison sentence, "time" more than a duty you believe in? If so, then that really doesn't entitle you to anything. If you believe what you believe, then going out and making the world safe for America should be your duty 24/7, until the goal is achieved. Otherwise, you're just the same as anybody who hasn't "done any time," like you have.

As for "too old for active duty," that's a rather poor excuse. Who says you have to serve in uniform? If you believe in your cause so much, there should be no reason for you to wait for somebody else's orders or to be a part of a unit when you can do so much just on your own. Or do you not know anything?

Remember, if you can't answer the question, don't try to.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]


Ok "Thong-boy" how many years did you give to your country? How long did YOU serve? I think Pyros is doing "his/her" part, what about YOU?

I you don't think China is bent on world domination you are truely a lost cause. They control a majority of the worlds seaports thru military controlled corporations. They are also mapping the seabed route in the pacific ocean near japan because it is the most likely route for a US task force to use when they "attack" Taiwan.

China is on a drive to world domination..........



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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Taiwan is part of China, Taiwan are chinese people

No. Taiwan is aboriginal people. You can make arguments that Taiwan is part of Portugal, Taiwan is part of Spain. Taiwan is part of Holland, Taiwan is part of Japan. Historically speaking Taiwan belongs to no one. Because it is an independant country in the present, any action/force against it would constitute rules for engagement against the aggressor.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Ok "Thong-boy" how many years did you give to your country? How long did YOU serve? I think Pyros is doing "his/her" part, what about YOU?

I you don't think China is bent on world domination you are truely a lost cause. They control a majority of the worlds seaports thru military controlled corporations. They are also mapping the seabed route in the pacific ocean near japan because it is the most likely route for a US task force to use when they "attack" Taiwan.

China is on a drive to world domination..........


It depends on what you mean by "doing our part." Remember, if a person doesn't believe in the cause, they wouldn't be doing "their part" even if they were in the military, whatever.

Besides, I prefer to help our own people.

So China is on a drive to world domination... isn't that like saying America is on a drive to world domination?



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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Thong boy is one of those people so intent on being happy with his own selfish views that as so long as you dont bother him he cares nothing about what happens around him. We do have a moral obligation in this world. With great power comes great responsibility. Whether you believe in God or not you need to believe in good. Either you are for good or for bad. It is probably the hardest thing in the world to make this decision to support what is good and right because we ultimately have to lay are lives for our beliefs. It IS very easy for a president to send young men into battle because this president may never have to worry about being shot or blown up as a soldier would, but if you a voter then you must respect that your elected leader does have some morals and that sending young men into war IS NOT very easy for him. It is easy to bash an elected official if we have not voted for him but it is not fair to the stability of our country. We are ALL Americans (here in America anyway) and we have firm beliefs and should sometimes just trust our countrymen for it is they who have elected the leader if we have voted for another. Sorry to stray to far from the subject but it is necessary to address all issues related when dealing with such a sensitive topic. I for one would support fighting for the Tawainese if they were in need of our help and at the same time would be very afraid because of the real and present danger it brings about for many men and women. Before I get blasted by some who may say then stand up for what I believe in let me say I may not have enough balls to join the military but I have the upmost respect for those who do serve and would accept the government`s request if I were so drafted. I have actually talked to recruiters and in my own mind have debated the subject of joining. At this time in my life like so many other people my first responsibility is to my family and ultimately my daughter who I love so much. It would be horrible to see a child so distraught after losing a parent and that is something I would be afraid could happen to her. But at the same time it would not be a life lost in vain because I would be fighting for what I believe in so that my daughter and yours or your son would live in a safer and more stable world where freedom rings throughout. That being said if the Tawainese are stripped of their freedom by an agression that merely wants to conquer for its own financial gains could you be so cold as to say that it is none of your business? Is it ok to sit back in your own little world with all of the pleasures you enjoy while others are being persecuted tortured and killed simply for wanting to be free? Dont take for granted all that you have because if it could happen to them couldnt it happen to you? Or are you comfortable enough because of this big mighty country you belong to will protect you and make sure it doesnt happen to you? The bottom line is that people who believe in what is right and good and just need to stick together to protect each other from those who arent.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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No offence but it isn't 1939 anymore. The world is a different place. The way I see the world is very different from the way America does. As an Australian it's not worth fighting and dying over. I'm not going to help send my friends to the slaughter and help descend the world into a nuclear conflict. It's just better to walk away on this one from Australia and let the US and China fight this crazy war.

Do you think I really care about tyranny?? You Americans are funny, it's always about a battle between good and evil, America versus the bad guys and if I or other Australians share another view so what??

Pyros, what would you know about Australia?? nothing much I bet, I don't speak for all Australians (no person could ever speak for the opinion of his entire country) but I speak for many like minded individuals. I bet I know more aussies than you've seen in your life.

Taiwan is not worth dying over. It's not worth losing my friends over. I am not going to support fighting in it.

The expansionism of Japan is much much different to the Taiwan situation. It's totally different. The entire world knows what happens if Taiwan slips up, most nations around the world have accepted the one-china policy.

China has no intention of taking over South-East Asia and invading Australia. Nor do I think they will for the far forseeable future.

We only put ourselves under threat if we fight in Taiwan and start something we're gonna regret.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
Thank God you don't have a vote that counts here.


Thank god you haven't got any say in what counts in my country!! things are different here, it isn't the same as Japan or WWII, China isn't coming marching down SE Asia to attack Australia and bomb our northern cities, it WONT happen.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by smokinjoe
Well I hold Australian and New Zealand citizenship and I beleive that one day China will become a direct threat to these two countries.

I say hit them now and hit them hard while we still have the chance - beleive it, they would do the same to us if they had the chance. If we continue to let them "tool up" we will live to regret it. I say go in and split that damn country up - insite a civil war or some effing thing, just don't let them continue to grow in power... we owe it to our grandchildren to do everything in our power to ensure that the Sleeping Dragon does not awake!


I think it's just fear and paranoia from the Yellow Peril we've always experienced.
The fear of a few hundred million asians just coming down and taking over our prized country.

I don't see any evidence to the fact they would fight us if they had the chance. On the contrary, we are becoming excellent trading partners. I believe the best way for world peace is to increase trade and establish common business and social relationships. I think this is being done and I think China sees us as a threat in the Taiwan situation because we are good friends with America.

I dislike the Government of China as much as the next guy, but I do not think that it's worth sending friends of mine to die in Taiwan.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Australia wouldn't be much either help or harm. China can take all three of 'em. The U.S. isn't as strong as they used to be. The Iraqis felt they could beat the Australians. Taiwan feels the heat anyway.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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I'm confident that drfunk certainly does not represent the view of the Australian government, I mean they're in Iraq right? But if China does launch a military attack on China and Australia doesn't do anything to respond to their aggression against a free people, it should be the U.S. who needs to reevaluate any military alliance with Australia.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I'm confident that drfunk certainly does not represent the view of the Australian government, I mean they're in Iraq right? But if China does launch a military attack on China and Australia doesn't do anything to respond to their aggression against a free people, it should be the U.S. who needs to reevaluate any military alliance with Australia.


See here lies the problem. We have to fight all your wars with you so that you don't forget about and decide not to protect us. We don't have a choice, because if we don't go along with America we may not have our defence ensured. We are really only in Iraq to ensure our defence. Most Australians didn't want to go to war.

Well you see you don't speak for the Australian government on this one. I and many other people decide who is in government every 3 years and if we don't like their stance they'll be thrown out. The current course for the Australian government seems to be that we'll opt out of this one.



"Last August, Mr Downer told an audience in Beijing that Australia would not automatically join America if it chose to defend Taiwan from an attack by Beijing. His comments brought criticism from Washington, and Mr Downer was forced to retreat, arguing he was only speaking hypothetically.

For Australia, smooth relations with China are particularly important at this time. Australian and Chinese officials are working on a study, due to be completed in April, to determine if negotiations for a free-trade agreement should commence.

Mr Howard is scheduled to visit Beijing in April to meet President Hu Jintao. The Australian prime minister wants to be able to use that opportunity to announce the commencement of talks on the free-trade deal. While such an agreement with China is not universally applauded in Australia, it would provide a link to the world’s fastest growing economy.

One of Australia’s leading strategic analysts, Hugh White, told the Sydney Morning Herald that the US continued to regard China as a strategic competitor and potential adversary, while Australia saw it as “our future economic saviour"


Australia sees China quite differently from America, so does our government. Everyone has different opinions though, and this is true in Australia. Recently our government decided not to oppose the EU arms embargo being lifted.

Whether we will fight in Taiwan, is yet to be determined. When that time comes we'll have to make a decision.

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 8-3-2005 by drfunk]

[edit on 8-3-2005 by drfunk]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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csulli456,

You present a very idealistic view of things. How assured are you that you are right? I think the problem is that people like yourself are so convinced that they are right and are so convinced the world is black and white that all they have to do is go kill people and boom, everything is all happy and good and red white and blue, without ever considering that perhaps they might have been the ones wrong all along. What if God came down one day and told us authoritarianism, tyranny, etc., were all "good" and everything you percieve to be "good" was actually evil? Ever consider that? Or do you just choose not to think about it?

Let me ask you a provocative question. As a parent, you must be authoritarian at times. With that in mind, are you going to say the authoritarianism is ALWAYS wrong? You imply that considering you think China is "evil."

All I can say is, there is only so much in the world a person can control. We have to choose what we think is more important to protect. And don't love anything "good" (like freedom) too much. Everything has equal amounts of upsides and downsides. You have to keep an open mind.

BTW, you're not unique when you say you considered joining the military. Just three months ago, I was on the verge of starting my entry into the U.S. Marine Corps. So don't love yourself too much.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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drfunk,

I should've mentioned this before, but what you are talking about is one of the causes of World War I: alliances.

Like I told csulli, you can't love anything too much. Alliances have their pluses, but their minuses can be deadly.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
drfunk,

I should've mentioned this before, but what you are talking about is one of the causes of World War I: alliances.

Like I told csulli, you can't love anything too much. Alliances have their pluses, but their minuses can be deadly.


excellent observation sweatmonicaido, it is a mistake that I would not like to see repeated.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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Chances are, Germany would've never invaded Belgium and France had they never been in that alliance.

I feel like history is repeating itself, though. The U.S. government pretty much expects, without question, unconditional support in all of it's actions, whether it's allies like it or not.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Well first China took Tibet, now it looks like they're taking Nepal, next Taiwan...how many more countries does China have to take before some of you recognize it as a threat to all? Will it take Japan? Australia itself? The situation looks far more like Nazi Germany in the lead up to WWII instead of WWI.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well first China took Tibet, now it looks like they're taking Nepal, next Taiwan...how many more countries does China have to take before some of you recognize it as a threat to all? Will it take Japan? Australia itself? The situation looks far more like Nazi Germany in the lead up to WWII instead of WWI.


Fine, let's assume China is a threat. Why haven't we attacked them? If someone is a threat, you resolve the matter right away and right now, the U.S. isn't doing it, I'm guessing out of economic reasons.

Now, assume China is not a threat to U.S. power, but still in trying to annex Tibet, Nepal, and Taiwan. Would you care?



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