State Department releases detailed accounts of Biden-Ukraine corruption

a reply to: Boadicea

There is no doubt that there is a wide-swath of corporate media dedicated to anti-Trump/Democrat causes.

Just as some of the most effective corporate media is pro-Trump.

Keep us all at odds as much as possible as long as possible.

I am trying to learn to insulate myself from the effects of the constant bombardment 24/7.

If I may say so, you really do a good job of rising above the fray.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Rudy’s sources are Shokin and Leshenko (?). Neither are particularly credible. But sure, heck, let’s investigate, the government isn’t doing anything else. (Which is arguably a good thing.)

Then we are good to go. I don't need anyone convicted before they are even looked at. To do business that way is illogical and violates common sense. This just doesn't need to be ignored because "too big to fall" names. If Trump is the name, so be it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gryphon66

I was born in the 70s, this is the worst I have ever seen it.

I was born just a few years ahead of you.

I thought it was bad during Clinton’s Presidency ... nope.

That was just the prelude.

I think that was a symptom of it being the 90s and literally nothing happened. They had to find a way to keep busy somehow. If you look at what a perfect period to be a President is you need look no further than slick Willy's tenure.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

Yeah, what was it Jesus called it in the Bible “a nest of vipers”?

That about covers it.

I guess it’s always been this way, but it sure seems worse in the last decade or so.

I’m gettin’ old, Bo.

We both are. And the critters' crap is getting old.

But it seems we have reached a tipping point... for better AND worse

I was born in '63, I have never seen things this bad in that timeframe. My dad and grandfather saw some crap growing up but nothing like we see now. It just keeps getting worse because people have forgotten how to get along with others. It's not that the attitudes weren't there, but between the majority of both parties and the media, it has made a large portion of our population vicious and hateful. That's what I don't understand. But I also think there are fewer people interested and educated in the political process these days and the ignorance feeds these fires too.

I used to enjoy reading the paper and watching the news, but in the last twenty or so years it has turned into a black pit of lies and corruption with no accountability whatsoever. That's why I make the effort to find independent sources of information when I see/hear something new. I learned a long, long time ago not to react right away, but to research and use logical, critical thinking before forming an opinion.

It usually works but sometimes the defiant 12yo in me comes out. I'm still working on that. Maybe.

a reply to: HalWesten

They have not forgotten, they have been taught not to. They have been taught anyone who disagrees with their progressive beliefs are Nazis that should be attacked.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: HalWesten

They have not forgotten, they have been taught not to. They have been taught anyone who disagrees with their progressive beliefs are Nazis that should be attacked.

So you’re decrying the use of the term Nazi while using the term progressives.

How does that make sense on your side of the screen?

Isn’t overgeneralization the issue you’re pointing to?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: HalWesten

They have not forgotten, they have been taught not to. They have been taught anyone who disagrees with their progressive beliefs are Nazis that should be attacked.

So you’re decrying the use of the term Nazi while using the term progressives.

How does that make sense on your side of the screen?

Isn’t overgeneralization the issue you’re pointing to?

I did not say Democrats were the problem, I did not generalize. Not everyone who disagrees with me is evil.

a reply to: HalWesten

I was born in 54 , they killed Kennedy and his brother and shot Reagan . At least ther was some form of a crime with Nixon and Clinton . This crap is just a side show and when congress gets nothing done it doesn't get worse

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

That decision was in alignment with over two years of expressed foreign policy by both the US and the EU.

Source this claim.

Everyone says everyone wanted him gone.

Source some articles from that era backing up this claim. I've asked before, no one can, maybe you can.

a reply to: UKTruth

I think Rudy had these career politicians
corrupt game all figured out long before his current position.
Can you say RICO RICO RICO ?

These fools are on a highway to hell.


www.youtube.com...

S&F

a reply to: Vector99

Always glad to help with a factual request:


Here is a report on the situation from the Congressional Research Service (Library of Congress) from March 2015 that gives a factual overview with more links on the joint response by US/EU to the attacks on Ukraine by Russia and the response to provide assistance to Ukraine.

Here's a report from the OECD in February 2015 which summarizes the EU's involvement in the fight against Corruption in Ukraine.

Here is a December 2015 article in the New York Times that details not only the joint US-EU Efforts on Ukraine but fully describes the complexity of the situation since Hunter Biden had taken the position at Burisma a year earlier

The Times is behind a paywall these days, so I’ll provide some quotes ... remember these were published December 2015.

When Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. traveled to Kiev , Ukraine, on Sunday for a series of meetings with the country’s leaders, one of the issues on his agenda was to encourage a more aggressive fight against Ukraine’s rampant corruption and stronger efforts to rein in the power of its oligarchs. But the credibility of the vice president’s anticorruption message may have been undermined by the association of his son, Hunter Biden, with one of Ukraine’s largest natural gas companies, Burisma Holdings, and with its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, who was Ukraine’s ecology minister under former President Viktor F. Yanukovych before he was forced into exile.

Hunter Biden, 45, a former Washington lobbyist, joined the Burisma board in April 2014. That month, as part of an investigation into money laundering, British officials froze London bank accounts containing $23 million that allegedly belonged to Mr. Zlochevsky. Britain’s Serious Fraud Office, an independent government agency, specifically forbade Mr. Zlochevksy, as well as Burisma Holdings, the company’s chief legal officer and another company owned by Mr. Zlochevsky, to have any access to the accounts.

I can go on and on. I chose two non-media summary reports, one from the US and one from the EU, but the Times article clearly demonstrates the complexity of the relationship specifically regarding Hunter’s involvement in Burisma.

The point being, of course, that none of this is new, none of this was just discovered, the facts are and have been known.

If you need more evidence points, I’ll be glad to provide.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: HalWesten

They have not forgotten, they have been taught not to. They have been taught anyone who disagrees with their progressive beliefs are Nazis that should be attacked.

So you’re decrying the use of the term Nazi while using the term progressives.

How does that make sense on your side of the screen?

Isn’t overgeneralization the issue you’re pointing to?

I did not say Democrats were the problem, I did not generalize. Not everyone who disagrees with me is evil.

Now you’re talking about Democrats? Wait a minute ...

You said that progressives have been taught that anyone they disagree with are Nazis.

I took that to mean that your complaint is focused on “anyone they disagree with” being an unfair way categorize people with negative terms like Nazi ...

Or progressive.

And now you’ve moved on to Democrats.

I think you will agree with this, at least in theory ... it is wrong to generalize a recognizable characteristic of larger groups to deny the individuality of each member.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

If I may say so, you really do a good job of rising above the fray.

Well... um... I do have brown eyes.... LOL! Can't BS a BSer!

Seriously, I chalk it up to coming from a big family with older siblings. Seeing through the crap is just survival!!! (And yes... I am the Black Sheep of the family )

a reply to: HalWesten

I'm just a few years older than you, and I see the same thing. The divide-and-conquer campaign against us is in high gear. Weakening and dividing the family. Everyone's either a victim or an oppressor. Winners and losers via government entitlements and handouts.

There was a time when people understood that we didn't "tolerate" other people's rights and freedoms, we respected them. When the words, "It's a free country" actually meant something. We might say it with as much disdain and contempt as possible, but we knew that others have the right to do as they wish, and respecting and protecting EVERYONE'S rights is the only way to protect our own rights. We weren't perfect, but we were a work in progress.

What is today called "progressive" is actually regressive and oppressive. Now we have protected classes and "hate" crimes and trigger warnings and this-phobe and that-phobe and "safe" spaces...

And for all the folks selectively invoking the Constitution, too many wouldn't know the founding principles if they bit 'em in the arse.

And just imagine if Hillary would have one, unbelievable.

I am so appreciative of the guts and strength Trump has exhibited and love what he is doing for this country.
He deserves so much credit but I would have supported any outsider willing to fight for us, it just appears that Trump is the only one who could have done it. Trump is relentless.
And the media and all the haters cry..." he's so mean, he's breaking protocol". " he's doing this to make money of the presidency. He takes 2 scoops of ice cream and makes everyone else have only 1 scoop"
My god they are sick!

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

Yeah, what was it Jesus called it in the Bible “a nest of vipers”?

That about covers it.

I guess it’s always been this way, but it sure seems worse in the last decade or so.

I’m gettin’ old, Bo.

We both are. And the critters' crap is getting old.

But it seems we have reached a tipping point... for better AND worse

I was born in '63, I have never seen things this bad in that timeframe. My dad and grandfather saw some crap growing up but nothing like we see now. It just keeps getting worse because people have forgotten how to get along with others. It's not that the attitudes weren't there, but between the majority of both parties and the media, it has made a large portion of our population vicious and hateful. That's what I don't understand. But I also think there are fewer people interested and educated in the political process these days and the ignorance feeds these fires too.

I used to enjoy reading the paper and watching the news, but in the last twenty or so years it has turned into a black pit of lies and corruption with no accountability whatsoever. That's why I make the effort to find independent sources of information when I see/hear something new. I learned a long, long time ago not to react right away, but to research and use logical, critical thinking before forming an opinion.

It usually works but sometimes the defiant 12yo in me comes out. I'm still working on that. Maybe.

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

What are some examples of what Mr. Trump has done to protect the common citizens of the USA?

Two or three maybe, since he’s done so much?

Thank you kindly.

He is fighting to keep our country together...BORDERS.
He got us out of the that trans pacific trade partnership nightmare.
He put an end to the Paris Accord.
These and others are helping in both tangible(economy) and intangible(we have someone who puts America first over the globalists)

To name a few, these actions are saving this country. I know if I spent some time I could easily make the case, as many others have but most of the back and forth about Trump is petty.

Do you think he has the best interest of the USA?
Do you think he is helping the average American?

I got a kick out of Booker saying at the Democrats debate that he will help the black and brown unemployment and the wage gap...newsflash Trump is already doing it, those are just election season talking points, Trump is doing it.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: fringeofthefringe

What are some examples of what Mr. Trump has done to protect the common citizens of the USA?

Two or three maybe, since he’s done so much?

Thank you kindly.

Yes, insulating from all the propaganda is very difficult.

Not sure who the " most effective corporate media is pro-Trump" is all about.

I find it comical when someone defends Trump and does not quite articulate the the defense in a way that is most convincing and the reply you'll see is..."well if you would have said this or said that then yea, but you did't say that"
As if they know the overall point has merit but since you did not make the case good enough then Trump is wrong and all the accusations are right.
How disingenuous.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

There is no doubt that there is a wide-swath of corporate media dedicated to anti-Trump/Democrat causes.

Just as some of the most effective corporate media is pro-Trump.

Keep us all at odds as much as possible as long as possible.

I am trying to learn to insulate myself from the effects of the constant bombardment 24/7.

If I may say so, you really do a good job of rising above the fray.

a reply to: UKTruth

Shoken was the corrupt prosecutor who wasn't going after corruption whom all of the EU the IMF and the US govt wanted gone. He wasn't a personal target for Joe Biden.
No wonder he is bitter and spiteful and telling lies.
He lost his cushy job.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Biden did indeed force the firing of the Ukranian prosecutor after the prosecutor was told to handle Burisma with 'white gloves', but did not do so.

seems crow for thanksgiving for many?
as long as it is some bird?

Too bad that is already proven to be a lie.