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Government corruption and intellectual dishonesty

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posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: CrazyFox
I am not stating we have to destroy the govt, I am stating that our current system of govt has to be destroyed and replaced by the one that worked. That would include the dismantling of DC and annexing it to the states surrounding it. Un-incorporating our govt and instead reinstate the governing style of before the civil war. FTR I am not encouraging the re-institution of slavery here as I feel currently almost all of us are slaves currently with the authoritarian system of control.
In order to rebuke the power of the corporations The Corporate United States of America has to be destroyed.

a reply to: pexx421



Fair enough, I personally think what we have can be fixed with proper application of laws already on the books and adding public funding for campaigns, as well as specific anti corruption regs. But I won’t argue your point, decentralizing and rebuilding could be viable as well.




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: pexx421

So your not serious about getting the MONEY out of politics.

I see.




Social security and socially funded medical care is OUR money that we paid into it.


6% of it is.

Most of it's employers.



No, I’m serious about getting bribery, corruption, waste fraud and abuse out. As far as businesses contributing, well that comes out from what would have been our salaries, so that’s all our money too. In the same way, by nationalizing healthcare efficiently, less money would be coming out of our paychecks, out of our pockets, and out of workplace contributions as well.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

Social programs,Freebies IS BRIBERY.

It's also WASTE and filled with Fraud.

Get government back to the basics.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: pexx421




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 05:46 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

See? Nationalizing health care is all about givernment fishing *for* instead of allowing me to fish for myself. At that point, government has sole control over the entire health care apparatus with other system of recourse. If it goes bad, then you are screwed whether it goes bad systemically a la Venezuela or only on your personal level like the horror stories that always bubble up out of single payer systems where ibdividual will is over-ridden by bureaucratic necessity, even to the point of disaalowing the expenditure of private monies to escape the system either as a whole or in part.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 05:51 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
Government is corrupt. Our government, the US government is corrupt.

.


And just how did the government become so corrupt?

You aren't asking the right questions - well actually you are not asking any questions.

Take a look at the Powell memo. Read up on Justice Powell.

scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu...

Not a 'conspiracy' but a coordinated, systematic sedition against the People and the Constitution.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 06:32 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: pexx421

Social programs,Freebies IS BRIBERY.

It's also WASTE and filled with Fraud.

Get government back to the basics.



Social programs are not freebies. They are paid for. And they are not bribery. Who are you bribing? The whole public? That’s not called bribery, it’s service.

And in my lifetime I’ve seen healthcare go from something everyone could have and afford to something that’s rationed. Why? Because right before I was born they repealed the ban on healthcare being allowed to create profit. And the farther we’ve gotten from that, the more expensive healthcare has become.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: pexx421

See? Nationalizing health care is all about givernment fishing *for* instead of allowing me to fish for myself. At that point, government has sole control over the entire health care apparatus with other system of recourse. If it goes bad, then you are screwed whether it goes bad systemically a la Venezuela or only on your personal level like the horror stories that always bubble up out of single payer systems where ibdividual will is over-ridden by bureaucratic necessity, even to the point of disaalowing the expenditure of private monies to escape the system either as a whole or in part.


I work in a hospital. I’ve worked in numerous hospitals around the nation for 20 years. I know firsthand exactly what the problems are in our current system. So don’t come at me with hearsay’s and untruths about our system being better than others. Our hospitals are filthy and disgusting, with rationed staff, far greater nosocomial infections than other nations, worse outcomes, at vastly higher prices. I see injustices in our hospital system every day. You can’t “fish” your own treatment, you will always be going to someone else for it. And if you’re lucky, great. If not your surgery will just make your problem worse, or your bedsores will get infected because there’s not enough staff to turn and clean you regularly, or you won’t be able to afford the $96k for a handful of pills to cure your hep c so you’ll just come in each week to have 5-10 liters of fluid drained from your abdomen until you die, or your untrained just out of high school psyche tech may accidentally break your arm or kill you in a take down.

I’ve seen # you wouldn’t believe in our healthcare system, from staff raping an unconscious patient, to several staff members walking in a room to beat a patient up. I’ve seen negligence causing patients to go into arrest, and mistakes that caused the same. And I’ve seen tons of people stressing about their inability to pay, and the debt they are accruing. And making their life determining decisions based upon that. Often for stuff that costs a negligible amount in other nations.

So please, don’t give me some crap about “fish” and “bribery”. I’ll take either of those over the blackmail and extortion that our current system provides. “Your money or your life” was a traditional turn of phrase for robbers. Today it applies to our healthcare system.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

I said eff all about our system, and I said I was against nationalized systems, whether for health care or anything, and why.

Do you have any remedy for what I said -- my complete loss of any control to one over-riding system? If not, then you haven't addressed anything I've said.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 06:55 PM
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Whilst the people who believe they are astute in politics busy themselves with the theater of impeachment hearings and presidential debates, the House - with nearly all democrats voting in favor - passed an extension of the Patriot Act which President Trump has now signed into law. The second such authorization of unconstitutional surveillance Trump has signed along with FISA 702 of last year. Fighting that deep state...



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 07:05 PM
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I think Washington said it best. BEWARE of political parties.

We can blame ourselves and the Americans before us for where we are in 2019.

It’s that simple. The corruption has always been there our technology now allows us to see it more clearly.

en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: pexx421

I said eff all about our system, and I said I was against nationalized systems, whether for health care or anything, and why.

Do you have any remedy for what I said -- my complete loss of any control to one over-riding system? If not, then you haven't addressed anything I've said.

I think hospitals, banks, and natural monopolies should be largely nationalized. We already have little choice in medicine, it’s decided by our company and which people their plan covers. But I think the hospitals themselves can remain private, and the doctors offices. They would just be paid by our taxes distributed by the government.

But I don’t think nationalizing banks would ruin your choice. What’s the choice now, one bank that massively defrauded us or another that did the same?? Who cares if their bank is boa or chase? The only bank people get excited about is USAA, and guess what? It’s nationalized! And provides much better rates, service, etc than all the others.

Same goes for natural monopolies like utilities. I always like having state electric power over private. The costs are always much better, and the service is just as good, if not better.

I also don’t think I’d like it using private police or firemen.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

Look, I get you want the givernment to do the hard stuff for you, but when it does it all for, there is zero incentive to keep out waste, fraud, and abuse because your clientele are your prisoners, not people you serve. Who cares about them any more? The truth of the system you promote is that it cannot stand to let people choose, all must go, not just those who want to.

It's a system of force, not choice. I'd be happy to let you choose it except you will force me to come to. Why do I have to come too in order to make you feel secure about yourself? Is it because you're afraiod most will choose to stay clear?


edit on 24-11-2019 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

What choice are you not getting?



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 08:42 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ketsuko

What choice are you not getting?


A nationalized system is one system. There is no alternative; no choice to that system.

What choice do you have in the public school system? You either pay for private education or homeschool *after* paying for the public system or you take what the public system gives you with no choice. You have no freedom of school, one v. another. It's assigned via district. You go to jail for trying to escape that system by any means other than living in a district. A few blocks one way or another can mean good school v. ghetto trap.

Britain's NHS runs similar with some health care districts authorizing treatments or drugs others won't and just blocks can make the difference between treatment A and treatment B.

Now I do have options and plenty of them. For example, we're treating our son's hearing disability out of pocket at a clinic in Colorado because they have a proprietary technology. A nationalized system may or may not allow us that freedom depending on how it's run and put together.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Sorry, but I don’t fit into your paradigm or narrative. And I doubt anyone else does either. You have a view, fostered by your ideology, that’s is flawed.

I know many people who think exactly the way I described, I even have family members who often speak as though the world is rapidly going downhill, crime is getting worse, more people are dying in wars, etc, because that's exactly the narrative they are fed on a daily basis.


It’s very obviously flawed because it leads you to conclusions and judgment of your peers here that are obviously far off from reality, and leaves you completely unable to understand the thought processes of people who think differently than you.

I completely understand the thought process because a few years ago I was quite a hard left leaning person who believed in globalism, despised capitalism, etc. That is also why I view far-left socialist ideologies as so dangerous, because I understand precisely how attractive they are and how they appeal to our sense of morality.


You are living in a fabricated dream world, where everything is going well and yet people just don’t seem to be able to enjoy their lives. If this seems illogical, that’s because it is. And yet there’s no place in your ideology to question such a contradiction.

For once you have a valid point, I did oversimplify the reasons for why people are so depressed. There are actually a wide range of different reasons, but I would say at the core of it is a separation from nature and a separation from our fellow human beings. So many people live in massive steel and cement landscapes we call cities and they've lost all connection to nature, which is proven to lower happiness levels. Along with that social media has separated us rather than bringing us together, real human connections have been replaced with virtual connections that don't give us the same sense of fulfillment.

On top of that technology has made our lives so much easier, to the point where a large fraction of people basically never leave their house, and instead watch tv or play video games all day long. It has also been shown that rich people tend to be less happy, meaning as we advance as a society, people feel like there is less meaning or purpose to their life and they have more time to ponder existence and fall into a state of existential dread. Of course I'm still oversimplify to an extent, but these are the basic reasons the most developed nations tend to be less happy.


Because you’ve bought into a fabricated narrative. Where the business owners, oligarchs, and the wealthy elite are “heroes” and people wanting a minimum, stable existence in exchange for spending the vast majority of their life at a job are “lazy and entitled”.

I never called them heroes, but instead of treating them like the cause of all suffering, I treat them as human beings who've usually worked hard to get where they are. And if a person is working a low skill minimum wage job their entire life then I'm sorry but I don't think they deserve a life of luxury, would you want your kids to be stuck in a job like that? Or would you prefer they be motivated and proactive in advancing their career to make a better life for themselves without having to rely on your inheritance or free government money?

Furthermore, forcing a business to pay higher wages has side effects... the first being higher prices, because businesses wont simply take the loss of paying higher wages, they will either raise prices or just fire people to cut costs, or simply move the entire business to a place which isn't over-taxed or over-regulated. There is no magical solution to erase wealth inequality, the world isn't fair and it never will be perfectly fair, the best we can do is try to rise the average standard of living for everyone and capitalism does that better than any other system.
edit on 24/11/2019 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: pexx421
One defining trait of the liberals is that they as a group are completely unable to coordinate or organize effectively. Conservatism is largely a monolithic, unified group, able to effectively invest billions towards singular ends of control, be it owning all the media, funding think tanks, investing hundreds of millions into analytics groups to reprogram folks, simultaneously coordinate wars on all nations who adopt policies to support their citizens rather than generate corporate profit, etc.


You don't know conservatism very well, do you?

I'd recommend you toss out 'liberal' and 'conservative' for progressive, statist, leftist and/or fascist. Both liberal and conservative groups have those influences hidden in their ranks like parasites, but those parasites do not define the ideologies as a whole.



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Sorry, but I don’t fit into your paradigm or narrative. And I doubt anyone else does either. You have a view, fostered by your ideology, that’s is flawed.

I know many people who think exactly the way I described, I even have family members who often speak as though the world is rapidly going downhill, crime is getting worse, more people are dying in wars, etc, because that's exactly the narrative they are fed on a daily basis.


It’s very obviously flawed because it leads you to conclusions and judgment of your peers here that are obviously far off from reality, and leaves you completely unable to understand the thought processes of people who think differently than you.

I completely understand the thought process because a few years ago I was quite a hard left leaning person who believed in globalism, despised capitalism, etc. That is also why I view far-left socialist ideologies as so dangerous, because I understand precisely how attractive they are and how they appeal to our sense of morality.


You are living in a fabricated dream world, where everything is going well and yet people just don’t seem to be able to enjoy their lives. If this seems illogical, that’s because it is. And yet there’s no place in your ideology to question such a contradiction.

For once you have a valid point, I did oversimplify the reasons for why people are so depressed. There are actually a wide range of different reasons, but I would say at the core of it is a separation from nature and a separation from our fellow human beings. So many people live in massive steel and cement landscapes we call cities and they've lost all connection to nature, which is proven to lower happiness levels. Along with that social media has separated us rather than bringing us together, real human connections have been replaced with virtual connections that don't give us the same sense of fulfillment.

On top of that technology has made our lives so much easier, to the point where a large fraction of people basically never leave their house, and instead watch tv or play video games all day long. It has also been shown that rich people tend to be less happy, meaning as we advance as a society, people feel like there is less meaning or purpose to their life and they have more time to ponder existence and fall into a state of existential dread. Of course I'm still oversimplify to an extent, but these are the basic reasons the most developed nations tend to be less happy.


Because you’ve bought into a fabricated narrative. Where the business owners, oligarchs, and the wealthy elite are “heroes” and people wanting a minimum, stable existence in exchange for spending the vast majority of their life at a job are “lazy and entitled”.

I never called them heroes, but instead of treating them like the cause of all suffering, I treat them as human beings who've usually worked hard to get where they are. And if a person is working a low skill minimum wage job their entire life then I'm sorry but I don't think they deserve a life of luxury, would you want your kids to be stuck in a job like that? Or would you prefer they be motivated and proactive in advancing their career to make a better life for themselves without having to rely on your inheritance or free government money?

Furthermore, forcing a business to pay higher wages has side effects... the first being higher prices, because businesses wont simply take the loss of paying higher wages, they will either raise prices or just fire people to cut costs, or simply move the entire business to a place which isn't over-taxed or over-regulated. There is no magical solution to erase wealth inequality, the world isn't fair and it never will be perfectly fair, the best we can do is try to rise the average standard of living for everyone and capitalism does that better than any other system.


See, and your last paragraph shows the fantasy world you live in. Your theory is that lower taxes allow businesses to invest more in development, and pay higher wages, lower prices. But this has been shown false by history. We lowered their taxes massively.... in fact every president for the last 40-50 years has given a 5 trillion handout to business. And yet over that same time wages have stagnated, and business has been outsourced, and prices have climbed. And this last time it was almost all spent on stock buybacks, which used to and still should be illegal. Essentially what you’re saying is we should give businesses everything they want or they’ll leave. And that means our workers should be content competing with third world workers. Which we can’t because of our housing, medical, and education costs. So In order to appease business, our workers should settle for a drastically declining standard of living.

As to “capitalism raises everyone’s standard of living best”. This is obviously false. All one need do is look to South America, where everywhere we’ve installed capitalist friendly dictators, a small group of the wealthy elite live in the city in opulence and luxury, and the vast majorities live on the cities edge in ramshackle lean tos and shacks, in abject poverty and misery. And that is the end result we are progressing towards here as well.
edit on 25-11-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

Lower taxes don't compel businesses to do anything, but they do give them choice. Higher taxes completely remove that choice and are 100% detrimental because they 100% do produce all of the listed effects with zero net positives. If your stated desire is higher wages, you can't compel them without detriment to the economy; the places $15 min wage are learning that lesson now.



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 08:21 AM
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Term limits would be a good start.
Powell was spot on with that Memo.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Government is corrupt. Our government, the US government is corrupt.

.


And just how did the government become so corrupt?

You aren't asking the right questions - well actually you are not asking any questions.

Take a look at the Powell memo. Read up on Justice Powell.

scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu...

Not a 'conspiracy' but a coordinated, systematic sedition against the People and the Constitution.

edit on 25-11-2019 by fringeofthefringe because: (no reason given)




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